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Tebow, Blount, Edelman


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OK...I think I have your garble translated....

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No, you're talking Tebow glorification and deification and attacking anybody who even suggests otherwise...just sayin'...you have thousands of "Tebow is God!!!" pukerations strewn on sports internet boards everywhere. You HAVE your own little nonny nunu glory board for your Tebow...STAY THERE. You are not nor have you ever been a Patriots fan.



Rough translation:

Demo's statement: Tebow did just fine for a young and inexperienced QB with fewer than 16 starts under his belt.

Joker's interpretation: OMG< OMG< OMG!!!!!! DID YOU SEE THAT ? DEMO JUST SAID THAT TEBOW WAS GOD AND THE GREATEST MOST BESTEST QB TO EVER LIVE OR PLAY THE GAME.



Rinse and repeat for any other positive comment about Tebow.




Now, I'll go ahead and take a sec to try and hit you with a reality break Joker. What is going on is really simple, and so far removed from anything resembling what you have said.

We have guys like CC basically saying that Tebow is the worst QB ever in the history of the NFL, and that he really isn't an NFL QB, but rather a FB who wants to throw the ball.

Us Tebow fans, joined by some neutral veteran posters here have countered and pointed out that the kid did ok given his lack of experience, and that he very well might end up being a good QB if he finally has a chance to develop.

The sky is not falling Joker. Outside of an occasional troll, who probably isn't a real Tebow fan anyways, no one is claiming that he should, or demanding that he start over Brady.

In reality, about the most "controversial" issue that has come up is questioning whether Tebow is already a better option at QB2 than Mallet, given his game time experience.

I think I asked this of you before after another one of your little rants/tirades, but why don't you go ahead and quote some examples of any Tebow supporter or defender saying anything that's particularly outrageous or comes even close to being problematic ?

Come on Joker, surely, with all the massive hordes of Tebow supporters spreading this kind of stuff all around, a bright guy such as yourself should have no problem producing lots of quotes to back up what you claim.
 
Rough translation:

Demo's statement: Tebow did just fine for a young and inexperienced QB with fewer than 16 starts under his belt.

Joker's interpretation: OMG< OMG< OMG!!!!!! DID YOU SEE THAT ? DEMO JUST SAID THAT TEBOW WAS GOD AND THE GREATEST MOST BESTEST QB TO EVER LIVE OR PLAY THE GAME.



Rinse and repeat for any other positive comment about Tebow.




Now, I'll go ahead and take a sec to try and hit you with a reality break Joker. What is going on is really simple, and so far removed from anything resembling what you have said.

We have guys like CC basically saying that Tebow is the worst QB ever in the history of the NFL, and that he really isn't an NFL QB, but rather a FB who wants to throw the ball.

Us Tebow fans, joined by some neutral veteran posters here have countered and pointed out that the kid did ok given his lack of experience, and that he very well might end up being a good QB if he finally has a chance to develop.

The sky is not falling Joker. Outside of an occasional troll, who probably isn't a real Tebow fan anyways, no one is claiming that he should, or demanding that he start over Brady.

In reality, about the most "controversial" issue that has come up is questioning whether Tebow is already a better option at QB2 than Mallet, given his game time experience.

I think I asked this of you before after another one of your little rants/tirades, but why don't you go ahead and quote some examples of any Tebow supporter or defender saying anything that's particularly outrageous or comes even close to being problematic ?

Come on Joker, surely, with all the massive hordes of Tebow supporters spreading this kind of stuff all around, a bright guy such as yourself should have no problem producing lots of quotes to back up what you claim.

I agree demos. I love reading your posts Desmos. Your posts Desmos truly represent how talented Tim Tebow is. Also you and I both now Tim has flaws, so for Joker to say you think Tebow is God is ludicrous.

Also Joker shouldn't be condemning Tebow supporters and claiming that they aren't real Pats fans. Whether US Tebow Supporters were Pats fans for the past 5 years or just became fans when Tim joined the team shouldn't matter. Joker should just be glad that US Tebow support the PATS team now. We shouldn't be called names because we like Tebow.
 
Mgteich, what's your WR group look like without Edelman on the roster? With Amendola, Dobson, Boyce as locks, that still leaves two WR spots open.

1. Amendola
2. Dobson
3. Boyce
4. ???
5. ???
6. Slater (ST only)

With Welker and Hernandez gone, I'll be shocked if Edelman doesn't make the team. Do you have the Pats keeping two of the vets over Edelman (Jenkins, Jones, Hawkins) or Thompkins earning a spot?

Brady's lost his top 5 targets already, do we want to take away his 6th? The only way I see Edelman not making is if Thompkins is as good as advertised in training camp/preseason and we are unable to sneak him on the practice squad. I don't see us keeping both Jenkins and Jones imo.

People are simply writing off Donald Jones much too quickly. We all know what he did w/Bills, esp vs Pats. He has speed, which this team needs outside, he ran complicated routes & schemes dating back to his college & JUCO days, sight-adjustments, spread offense & no huddle. Seems like a fit w/Pats O. I'm excited to see him perform in TC and preseason.
 
Also think Bolden has a better chance to make it over Blount, if healthy. He's a better inside runner and he can play special teams. Gives you a lot more overall than Blount. Bolden also has better hands and although he could use improvement, he's a better blocker than Blount.
 
On Tebow, we will see.
 
I think I asked this of you before after another one of your little rants/tirades, but why don't you go ahead and quote some examples of any Tebow supporter or defender saying anything that's particularly outrageous or comes even close to being problematic ?
.

Since Joker is looking it up , I'll ask him again to produce any post ever where you race baited or religion baited . I asked it but he never backed up his statement when he accused you .

I'll ask him to produce any post where Situational awareness said anything even remotely controversial ( Joker said he has said outrageous things all over the Internet )

Joker is all bark and no substance , he can't back up ANY of his hysteria or accusations .
 
On Tebow, we will see.

Tebow is still developing as a QB. He will make a great back up QB to Brady. Tim is smart and works hard. I'll just be happy to see Tim make the roster and get a fair shot. Because he did NOT get a fair shot with the New York Jets.
 
Also think Bolden has a better chance to make it over Blount, if healthy. He's a better inside runner and he can play special teams. Gives you a lot more overall than Blount. Bolden also has better hands and although he could use improvement, he's a better blocker than Blount.

Unfortunately I seem to be in a George Winn fan club of one, but I'd take him over both Bolden and Blount primarily because he does all the skills required of a RB at a plus competency level.
 
You've got me interested in Winn, Manx.
I have no doubt that Winn will give everything he has on STs, so any advantage Bolden has there
will be mitigated to a noticeable degree.
If Winn shows decisiveness in his running & doesn't hit the ground upon first contact, then he has
as good a chance as Bolden & Blunt to become Power Back #2.
If Winn can demonstrate acceptable pass-blocking and even run-blocking, then he will already be
ahead of Bolden & Blount in that department.
And not insignificantly, Winn as far as we know is cleaner than both Bolden & Blount, each of whom has
at least one strike against them. It would also not surprise to learn that Kraft will insist upon the FO,
if he hasn't already, to place higher emphasis on personal character than it has in the recent past,
cough - Brandon - cough - Meriweather - cough.
 
good thing we didn't lose Edelman this off season (w/ everything going on).
I think he had the opportunity to split but decided to stay
 
Unfortunately I seem to be in a George Winn fan club of one, but I'd take him over both Bolden and Blount primarily because he does all the skills required of a RB at a plus competency level.

You guys are sleeping on Blount... I'm telling you.
 
You guys are sleeping on Blount... I'm telling you.

There were many times when Blount looked like a wrecking ball at Tampa. If that Blount shows up its lights out.

He has a career 4.6 YPC average , only a few seasons removed from a 1000 yard season.
 
good thing we didn't lose Edelman this off season (w/ everything going on).
I think he had the opportunity to split but decided to stay

As a general rule, when a vet like Edelman gets a vet-min deal, even a vet-min deal with incentives, it means he didn't get any offers.

In fact, I think the only team that even brought him in for a visit were the G-men.
 
We have guys like CC basically saying that Tebow is the worst QB ever in the history of the NFL, and that he really isn't an NFL QB, but rather a FB who wants to throw the ball.

I never said he was the worst in the history of the NFL, but I DO think he was pretty damn bad. And you are correct in saying that I believe he is a guy playing out of position.

Yes, yes, I know that is where he thinks he needs to be, and that is where he played his whole life, and had a lot of success prior to the NFL. But he's clearly in over his head in the NFL. Yes, I understand some games were won with him at QB, but you already know that I believe that while he had his moments, much of that was done in spite of his ineptitude for most of those games.

I mean, you give credence to a few wins and a playoff victory as all the proof you need, yet you rejected in the past that it meant anything at all when pointed out that Mark Sanchez only played 1 more year and won FOUR playoff games including two trips to the AFC Championship game. I think it is proof positive that a really bad QB can be carried a long way, and that 2011 run to me was yet another example of that. You can't have it both ways. If you think a playoff victory is the be all end all, then why aren't you worshipping at the altar of Mark Sanchez, who won four times as many in just one more year in the NFL?

Mark Sanchez is a terrible QB. Tebow is even less. If Tebow wasn't such a rock star off the field, he would have come and gone and been long forgotten like countless other projects that can't pass.
 
Tebow is still developing as a QB. He will make a great back up QB to Brady. Tim is smart and works hard. I'll just be happy to see Tim make the roster and get a fair shot. Because he did NOT get a fair shot with the New York Jets.

First, he can prove it by beating out Mallet in camp, which remains to be seen. Right now, all he has is McElroy, who actually got the nod over him. Isn't clear that he even beat out Brady Quinn either as that year they had him at #2 to use him for wildcat stuff, due to CBA rules of not being allowed to use #3 QB or "emergency QB" without having to bench starter or something like that. Very stupid rule too, and good riddance to it. Circumstance ended up giving Tebow the shot as the season became about giving the first round pick a good solid look before making a decision on him. Mixed results too despite pro-Tebow propagandists trying to make his impact on the Broncos look bigger than it actually was and give him the lion's share of the credit. ...even though the defense did most of the work.
 
Isn't clear that he even beat out Brady Quinn either as that year they had him at #2 to use him for wildcat stuff, due to CBA rules of not being allowed to use #3 QB or "emergency QB" without having to bench starter or something like that. Very stupid rule too, and good riddance to it.

That rule changed prior to the 2011 season, and Tebow was named "co number 2" with Quinn. Critics insisted that Quinn is actually the one who would take over the season if the need arose. Until that didn't happen. Whoops. Then reality was readjusted to "they're trying to flush the season and show the fans that Tebow can't play, so they can' pick Luck." Until that didn't happen. Whoops.

If Tebow's critics could just acknowledge that Tebow is in the same league with Brady Quinn, that he belongs in the same category of consideration as guys like Brady Quinn (if he's on your roster, you hope he finds a confidant groove and takes off, like many quarterbacks have). But instead, they insist on trying to establish there's this giant gulf of ability, with Tebow at one end, and everybody else on the other.

Tebow's a QB. He might be better than Mallet. He might not. If either one of those sentences makes you gasp in horror, it's time to step away from the keyboard. Because at some point, you got too convinced at your own level of expertise.
 
That rule changed prior to the 2011 season, and Tebow was named "co number 2" with Quinn. Critics insisted that Quinn is actually the one who would take over the season if the need arose. Until that didn't happen. Whoops. Then reality was readjusted to "they're trying to flush the season and show the fans that Tebow can't play, so they can' pick Luck." Until that didn't happen. Whoops.

If Tebow's critics could just acknowledge that Tebow is in the same league with Brady Quinn, that he belongs in the same category of consideration as guys like Brady Quinn (if he's on your roster, you hope he finds a confidant groove and takes off, like many quarterbacks have). But instead, they insist on trying to establish there's this giant gulf of ability, with Tebow at one end, and everybody else on the other.

Tebow's a QB. He might be better than Mallet. He might not. If either one of those sentences makes you gasp in horror, it's time to step away from the keyboard. Because at some point, you got too convinced at your own level of expertise.

Yeah, but he was elevated to #2 over Quinn in 2010. The year before the change. But now that you mention it, the co#2 thing, never made sense to me either. Always thought that was a PR move as many in Denver were up in arms when Tebow was knocked to #3 for a couple preseason games. Why call him a #3 when they no longer had to? Tebow eventually got the nod after week 5, but against the Titans, there was a play where Orton really got rocked. The cameras went to Quinn warming up, not Tebow. But Orton was able to shake it off and he was back in the game for the next drive.

When Orton played himself out of a job, many speculate had the game been on the road, it would have been Quinn who took over. But Denver was about to erupt, the crowd was chanting "Tebow, Tebow, Tebow." It was a pretty angry crowd and even I myself was finished with Orton. They weren't going anywhere, so there really was no reason NOT to go with Tebow. The staff didn't seem set on ANY of the 3 QBs. So they gave Tebow another look. After all, he was a first round pick they invested THREE picks in to trade up to get him. The season was going nowhere, so yeah, he got to play. Even I was done with Orton and wasn't impressed with Quinn and didn't care. As the season went on and the novelty of having this weird style was starting to wear off and I started to see the offense sputter and go nowhere week after week and win due to strong defensive play and some weird bounce going our way, I really didn't come away impressed with the kid. Neither was the Denver front office since they dumped all 4 QBs on the roster including the practice squad guy.

All that is beside the main point though. There really was no indication at all that Tebow had even beaten Quinn in camp. Some point ot Tebow getting the job as proof that he did, but I saw Quinn warming up when Orton took the big hit a couple games earlier while Tebow still sat on the bench with his helmet on as he always did. It was never really clear. Otherwise, by that logic, I'd have to believe McElroy was better since he got the start TWICE. (Granted one was when Tebow was injured, but I have a theory on that one too.) Even a TIE with Quinn doesn't inspire me with a lot of confidence that he will come out on top against Mallet. (My opinion of Quinn as a QB is EXTREMELY low.)

Then I saw legions of fans, some of those in this thread among them try to tell me all the three and outs and all the fail I kept seeing in the first 3 quarters was actually good and didn't matter. Yeah, it didn't matter because the defense held several teams to 15 points or less, and 3 of those games STILL took OT to get enough points. Fine, if one wants to argue the win is all that matters no matter how ugly is is... fine... point. However, I have yet to see a compelling argument that this was somehow a SUSTAINABLE way to win. It isn't. The Broncos front office didn't think so either. He will improve, the Tebow fans would say. Yeah, maybe. The question becomes, "how far do you think he has to go and how long are we willing to wait?" We got our answer after the season when he was traded for a 4th rounder. A couple weeks later, the jets looked and moved him to punt protector and gave him some running play who according to one ex coach they never even practiced it. We'll see if the pats have other ideas on what they can do, but a lot has to happen before I believe he really is an NFL QB. Let's start by actually breaking the 50% mark on completing passes, as he had done only once in 16 starts.

Sure, he might be better than Mallet. but based on what I have seen, I doubt it. Depends on what all these so called "improvements he made" are and how well he did it. his throwing mechanics were only part of his problems, and I still wonder if he can stick with that under live fire. The knocks on him about reading defenses and mastering playbooks is still valid.
 
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