What's with the sudden panic over the offense?

JackBauer · Jun 26, 2013

DropKickFlutie said:
Right, I have a ton of confidence with our coach who lost his last 20 games in Denver, and then ran the worst offense in the entire league in St. Louis despite Sam Bradford and Steven Jackson.

We'll see how well all these tons of ex-Rams and ex-Broncos do that were brought over here now that Welker, Gronk, and Hernandez are now out.

Try and be a little more subtle, Maverick.

DocHoliday · Jun 26, 2013

IllegalContact said:
not only that, but warren and Seymour were never on the roster together........vereen replaced woodhead by the end of last season (18 touches to 5 in the playoffs)

vereen is an upgrade.......you don't have to run him out of the shotgun

Woodhead injured his thumb.

Henroc · Jun 26, 2013

All I can say to people who doubt the offense is that Brady has done more with less

Mack Herron · Jun 26, 2013

In Welker, Hernandez, Woodhead, and even Lloyd, and they lost reliable production for which there is simply no replacement on the roster. It is possible that Vereen, who was a good receiver in college, can take a huge step and put a dent in the hole Woodhead left, but there is no basis for thinking this is going to happen, let alone any time soon.

DA is a legitimate weapon, but has never moved the chains with the consistency of WW.

One need only look as far as his contract to see how BB valued Ahern on the field. Hernandez created mismatches because of his versatility. Cover him with a LB and he can split out wide; put a DB on him and he can move into the back field and run, etc. Nobody on the roster (perhaps in the league) has the skill set to threaten defenses in the same way.

The offense is going to be very different without these guys. I don't see any way the guys they currently have produce the yards, TDs or first downs produced by the guys they lost. BB is going to have to find different ways to move the ball and score, and I will be surprised if he can generate as much offense. I am hoping the defense can improve significantly, and there is some reason for optimism there. If they can, the Patriots can still win, but not the same way.

SHOWTIME15 · Jun 26, 2013

Id imagine that belichick will start to grovel at lloyd to come back now....

Joker · Jun 26, 2013

that's quite an imagination you've got there, Tommy....

Fencer · Jun 26, 2013

I've been one of those who said it could be OK to have a dubious WR corps, because the TEs were so awesome (if they could ever stay healthy).

Oops.

mgteich · Jun 26, 2013

You can repeat it as many times as you wish, with as much koolaid as needed to wash it down. It still doesn't makes sense. The offense cannot be expected to be nearly as good. And, it is not panic, just a reality check. The really open question is whether the improvements in the defense will almost offset the decline in offensive production.

The offense is not better without Welker, Hernandez, Lloyd and Woodhead, and with an injured Gronkowski. In 2012, with these guys, we had one of the best offenses in the history of the nfl. This year, we have all question marks. Gronkowski will be fine, but we don't know when and if he will back to 100% this season.

fnordcircle said:
I'm reading so many stupid posts on other sites about how the Patriots will be lucky to win 10 games, that their offense will be terrible, that we're going to have to rely on the run, etc, etc.

I don't get it.

An offense is more than the Gronk, Hernandez, Welker, Lloyd and Woodhead and Gronk will be back at some point.

I love Woodhead but I think our offense, as whole, will benefit from Leon Washington moreso when you factor in the anticipated impact on offensive starting position due to Leon's superior KR abilities. There's really no overstating how important I believe those extra yards on kick returns will be.

Welker for Amendola is probably a downgrade - but I don't think it will be a major one.

Lloyd was a decent possession receiver and I think between Jones, Dobson and Jenkins one of those players will be able to replace his production.

So the biggest loss is Aaron Hernandez. Nothing can be said or done about that except moving on. The team has played plenty of games without him the past few seasons so it is what it is.

Will we have a #1 passing offense? I dunno, it's hard to make a case that we will. But we still have Brady. We still have a great OL and we still have a damn fine stable of running backs. And we have some interesting prospects in Jones, Boyce, Dobson and some of the PS guys.

The point is - the doom and gloom about the #1 offense becoming awful is extremely premature.

Shockt327 · Jun 26, 2013

Deus Irae said:
Absolutely

You're wrong here, because Woodhead is a better pass blocker as well, but Vereen was on the team last year, so I don't know why you're pointing to him. The change at RB will involve Blount and/or Washington.

Yeah, that's really not saying much because Woodhead kinda sucked at pass blocking, dude. I doubt Vereen is worse.

DocHoliday · Jun 26, 2013

I hope we throw to the RBs more.

Nunchucks · Jun 26, 2013

Wow, there is no doubt that woodhead was a better pass blocker than vereen. However, vereen was decent at it himself. He did have one poor pass blocking play that I saw, but solid overall. Vereen will have to focus his game on keeping brady protected, but I expect him to make strides and apparently so do the patriots.

As for the rest of his game, vereen's physical skills are clearly supeior, it is the mental game that is in question. However, vereen ran routes in college, so I have confidence that the pats will use him for maximum gain.

ATippett56 · Jun 26, 2013

DocHoliday said:
I hope we throw to the RBs more.

Brady may not have a choice if Gronkowski is not active, conditional upon recovering from back surgery.

VOODOOZF · Jun 26, 2013

If the Patriots were to enter the season as is the offense would be a significant downgrade from last season.

fnordcircle · Jun 26, 2013

mgteich said:
You can repeat it as many times as you wish, with as much koolaid as needed to wash it down. It still doesn't makes sense. The offense cannot be expected to be nearly as good. And, it is not panic, just a reality check. The really open question is whether the improvements in the defense will almost offset the decline in offensive production.

How is what you said any different than

Will we have a #1 passing offense? I dunno, it's hard to make a case that we will. But we still have Brady. We still have a great OL and we still have a damn fine stable of running backs. And we have some interesting prospects in Jones, Boyce, Dobson and some of the PS guys.

The point is - the doom and gloom about the #1 offense becoming awful is extremely premature.

I think it's pretty crazy to imagine this team's offense matching last year, but the offense is not suddenly going to drop to the bottom of the league not when the QB, the OL and the RB situation are still solid.

And I absolutely believe our defense improved last year and will continue to do so this year so there's no doubt in my mind the Patriots are going to win their division and contend for a playoff bye.

And please, spare me the koolaid drinker bull****. It's such a tired meme and it adds nothing to the conversation other than an implication that you're probably going to discount my opinion.

fnordcircle · Jun 26, 2013

VOODOOZF said:
If the Patriots were to enter the season as is the offense would be a significant downgrade from last season.

Ok, define significant in terms of offensive rankings.

Where do you people think the Patriots offense will rank?

Pass offense:

Run offense

Overall:

Here's what I think:

Pass offense: 8
Run offense: 5
Overall: 6

Not ideal to drop that many spots, if it were to happen, and no I don't think this has been a successful offseason so far given all that has happened but the point of this thread isn't to say things are great the point is that I still think we have the team to win the division and even be in contention for a bye.

Brady_to_Moss · Jun 26, 2013

RBs will be better than last..not worried about the running game at all

Deus Irae · Jun 26, 2013

Last year's top 5 Patriots receivers:

Welker - 118
Lloyd - 74
Gronk - 55
AH - 51
Woodhead - 40

The simple fact of the matter is that, if Gronk can't play week 1, the Patriots will start their season without their top 5 receivers from last season. Anyone who wants to pretend that they can easily find the missing 338 receptions among the current crop of receivers is welcome to do so. The fact of the matter is, though, that the career best seasons of Amendola/Jenkins/Jones combined get you to 179, which is less than what Gronk/AH/Lloyd had last year in a down season for the two TEs.

mgteich · Jun 26, 2013

Yes, the AFCE is so bad that the patriots indeed are very likely to win the division. And yes, of course, the patriots are one of those who will "compete" for a bye".

Yes, it is reasonable to expect that our running game will go from #7 to #5.

HOWEVER, the rub is with regard to the passing game and with regard to total points scored.
We start the season with the ENTIRE receiving corps from last year gone. Gronk will be back ;however, we don't know when or at what level.

I don't think that the pats with be the #8 passing team, unless lots of players step up. More concerning is total points. I don't see us being close to 2012.

fnordcircle said:
How is what you said any different than

I think it's pretty crazy to imagine this team's offense matching last year, but the offense is not suddenly going to drop to the bottom of the league not when the QB, the OL and the RB situation are still solid.

And I absolutely believe our defense improved last year and will continue to do so this year so there's no doubt in my mind the Patriots are going to win their division and contend for a playoff bye.

And please, spare me the koolaid drinker bull****. It's such a tired meme and it adds nothing to the conversation other than an implication that you're probably going to discount my opinion.

NEPettyOfficer72 · Jun 26, 2013

Lets see..

Top 5 All time HC and current best in NFL hands down
Perhaps the GOAT QB and at least NFL top 2
Top 3 Current OC
WR's Coach that groomed Givens, Patten, Brown and Branch back with team
Slot WR who if healthy, can surpass predecessor in every skill category and become a superstar
Rookie WR who has been compared to Moss and Fitzgerald with a name, number, and intangibles that make it very possible
Best TE in football injured but RETURNING
2nd TE is very good, has size, and SB experience
Ballard and Gronk could be lethal 1 2 punch with all that size, athleticism, receiving and blocking ability
1,200 yard Rusher who is a rising star
Two Power Rushers both capable of 1,000 yards each, and one actually did achieve that and loves to hurdle over people

Shane Vereen = Danny Woodhead 2.5
Mankins, Voller and Solder is loads of Strength and Starpower up front

..... and on and on

Deus Irae · Jun 26, 2013

NEPettyOfficer72 said:
Lets see..

Top 5 All time HC and current best in NFL hands down
Perhaps the GOAT QB and at least NFL top 2
Top 3 Current OC
WR's Coach that groomed Givens, Patten, Brown and Branch back with team
Slot WR who if healthy, can surpass predecessor in every skill category and become a superstar
Rookie WR who has been compared to Moss and Fitzgerald with a name, number, and intangibles that make it very possible
Best TE in football injured but RETURNING
2nd TE is very good, has size, and SB experience
Ballard and Gronk could be lethal 1 2 punch with all that size, athleticism, receiving and blocking ability
1,200 yard Rusher who is a rising star
Two Power Rushers both capable of 1,000 yards each, and one actually did achieve that and loves to hurdle over people
Shane Vereen = Danny Woodhead 2.5
Mankins, Voller and Solder is loads of Strength and Starpower up front

..... and on and on

What's with the sudden panic over the offense?

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