Explosive New Hernandez Details

Deus Irae said:

What it does is shows you're lying when you claim you're not drawing conclusions.


That's what it does.

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Saying Hernandez is involved in a shooting because his associate was shot and killed near his house with his rental car nearby is hardly drawing a conclusion about anything. Do you know what the word "involved" means? It's the most milquetoast word a person could have used to describe the situation. Now, if I had said he is clearly the shooter that's another thing entirely, and I've said nothing like that.

Brock Samson said:

It certainly does. All it takes to involve AHern in the shooting is his associate, near his house, and with his rental car nearby. And nobody is refuting those facts. AHern is clearly involved, and it's just a question of extent, his legal culpability, and less importantly, the repercussions to his career..

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Umm.. Just because it was near Ahern's house, doesn't mean Ahern was involved. Furthermore, Ahern rented the car and, in all likelihood, was letting his fiance's sister's boyfriend drive it. That doesn't mean Ahern was involved in any way, shape, or form. That is a huge jump on your part.

Ice_Ice_Brady said:

What's interesting to me is how powerful silence is to so many people here on this board. Let me first say that I am in no way predicting that AH will be cleared or that he isn't guilty. But the fact that he has remained silent is clearly making everyone here unable to consider that he may have a completely reasonable defense.

As soon as his attorneys release a statement saying "Aaron is completely innocent of these allegations" it's like a light switch will be flipped on and everyone will suddenly feel the doubt that maybe they jumped to a conclusion too soon. So, I recommend holding off judgment until someone actually says something on the record- whether it's the police (and not an unnamed source) or Hernandez's legal team.

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I think he had a WTF moment ... panicked did one thing sane and that was to clam up after speaking to his lawyer ... word was he was talking a bit up to then (speculation that he was).

I think he is 100% innocent of anything related to the murder ... a gut feeling.

IcyPatriot said:

Why not ... you must be lusting for something more important.

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I'm always lusting for something more important...the problem is they have stopped lusting back...:-(

Brock Samson said:

Saying Hernandez is involved in a shooting because his associate was shot and killed near his house with his rental car nearby is hardly drawing a conclusion about anything. Do you know what the word "involved" means? It's the most milquetoast word a person could have used to describe the situation. Now, if I had said he is clearly the shooter that's another thing entirely, and I've said nothing like that.

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Of course you were drawing conclusions. Don't embarrass yourself with this level of weak withdrawal. Are you next going to claim that

Brock Samson said:

Because violent criminals are dumb.



The whole thing defies logic. Hernandez's best bet at this point is to cop a plea and rat out the shooter, assuming he's not the shooter.

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doesn't rely on the assumption that Hernandez is actually guilty of something?

Brock Samson said:

Saying Hernandez is involved in a shooting because his associate was shot and killed near his house with his rental car nearby is hardly drawing a conclusion about anything. Do you know what the word "involved" means? It's the most milquetoast word a person could have used to describe the situation. Now, if I had said he is clearly the shooter that's another thing entirely, and I've said nothing like that.

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I think there is also a criss-crossing of scenarios given how different the process is in the court of law from the court of goodell........just because he gets off does not mean he will play football this year......his association with the incident as it is gives goodell the impetus to sit him for the year......goodell can do it, AH can appeal, but the appeal goes straight back to goodell.......people say he can sue, but it won't work.......nobody is going to feel bad due to the stupidity who over the last year has a kid, a 40 million contract and is at a landfill a 3am on a weekday night where someone gets killed........impossible to feel bad for the guy....at least right now

DaBruinz said:

No. What I am is offering very plausible explanations other than criminal mischief. That is where you are falling flat on your face. You are INSISTING that the reports are correct despite them having been shown to be incorrect on numerous other things regarding this story. You so desperately want to hold on to them and refuse to acknowledge that they've been wrong on more than a few counts.

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I'm not INSISTING the reports are correct though. How could I without direct knowledge? But the reported information is certainly more credible than the internet forum whinging about media inconsistency.

By the way, more info on the warrant: Report: “Paper” warrant issued for Hernandez | ProFootballTalk

“It may be that this is a squeeze tactic,” FOX 25 legal analyst Brad Bailey said. “It may be telling Mr. Hernandez that we have a warrant, a warrant for a crime that has a potential maximum penalty of seven years in prison, is a tactic to get him to come to the table, start talking and start cooperating. And that’s where the lawyers may be saying, OK, we got it. You got our attention. We’re willing to respond.”

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Which seems a lot more plausible than whining about the media inconsistency.

as far as silence versus blabbing it up like a crackhead on a five day-er....OJ blamed it on Colombian drug dealers almost immediately and followed it up in court by putting on gloves that fit to a tee while saying "see???..they do not fit...you MUST acquit"...so there is definitely something to be said for the "Baffle 'Em With Bullshyt" strategy in today's legal landscape.

I still think Ahern, whether he's culpable or not, is doing exactly the right thing by keeping his mouth shut. All this hysteria could collapse like a house of cards if he does and records indicate the opposite of what the insatiable media is barking.

IllegalContact said:

anything is still possible......the only real fact is that a guy is dead. the security system and the phone don't change that nor the fact that AH was seen with the deceased the night he was killed.

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Seen by whom? ABCNews/Fox25 are the ones reporting that Lloyd and Ahern were seen together on Sunday. The Globe said that, it was in fact, late Friday Night/Early Saturday when they were last seen together.

IllegalContact said:

all we can do is suppose.........there are a lot of holes that don't make sense......if the guy was killed at the dump, then why is anyone even making an issue of AH having cleaners at his house......even the security system becomes irrelevant unless it shows the 3 dragging the guy out of the house before he gets killed.

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Initially, people were making a big deal about the cleaners because it hadn't been verified that Lloyd had been killed at the dump/Industrial Park/Recycling Center.

What I find interesting is that, supposedly, surveillance footage showed Hernandez returning to the house early Monday morning after the shots were supposedly heard. The question I have is "what surveillance footage"? Is it from a neighbor's house or from Ahern's? If it was a neighbor's house, how clear is the image from the camera at 120+ feet? If it's from Ahern's house, why didn't the cops take it during their first search on Tuesday morning. Why wasn't the "smashed" surveillance system mentioned Tuesday morning? Why was it nearly 36 hours after the initial search that it came out?

IllegalContact said:

I am just supposing this, but if I were to bet on a scenario, I'd say the 4 of the were completely intoxicated....possibly to the point where the 3 themselves aren't exactly sure of all the details.

through all this confusion, it is possible that he winds up not doing any time........but I'll bet he will not play football this year

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With differing reports as to when Ahern last saw Lloyd, I don't even want to speculate on that. There are just too many plausible scenarios. From Ahern being 100% unknowing to Ahern having been the one who pulled the trigger because Lloyd had stuck his GF, to a drug deal gone bad..

Too many unknowns. Way too many unknowns and a lack of accurate reporting by anyone other than the Globe.

Ironman44 said:

I am not saying he is innocent but almost anything can have an explanation, here is an example ( a totally made up fantasy story that would explain everything etc) :

4 could have left the house, Loyd could have met them there in his car (rented by hernandez ), 1 guy of the original 4 goes home with a girl he met or a friend... so 3 now come back with AH to his house ...loyd goes by himself to meet up and score some drugs ,on the way back form the bar, near AH's house to keep the party going .

gets killed during an argument with drug dealer, maybe pulls a gun on him, gun jams turns to run away, dealer kills him .

AH finds out about it from the drug dealer ( "your homeboy just went crazy on me and I had to cap him), AH panics, knows on his own video equipment he is doing drugs on camera, smashes it. Knows that on his phone is the contact info for the drug dealer , he smashes the phone.

AH in the above scenario is guilty of soliciting drugs and keeping potential info about the murder to himself.

But he didn't kill anybody.

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I agree with what you said but lets take this one step further...Dude keep your mouth shut or your girl friend and little daughter will pay the price,
.... So now we have a 23 year old kid with millions of dollars at stake along with the lives of his new born daughter and girl friend..I'm not saying he made greatest choices in his life...but I didn't grow up under the same circumstances he did..maybe he panicked and didn't know what to do.

I refuse to convict him based on all the circumstantial evidence that is being reported. A lot of these kids that make it to the NFL deal with troubled pasts and have to overcome that. He is still only 23 years old and may not be equipped to handle or deal with the people that are a part of that past. If he was the shooter then he's as guilty as everyone seems to already have judged him...if he wasn't and there are other circumstances as I have explained above then we all need to take a step back and look at those including Czar Goodell

Deus Irae said:

doesn't rely on the assumption that Hernandez is actually guilty of something?

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Guilty and provable are different things. If the DA is issuing or close to issuing warrants then the DA could very well have enough to prove something and AHern would be risking a trial he didn't want in which case copping a plea is pretty reasonable. So basing that off the warrant seems pretty reasonable considering the legs of the warrant story. Not much of a conclusion about guilt there given the circumstances.

Family seeks answers in death near Hernandez home - News Local Massachusetts - Boston.com

Police in nearby Providence, R.I., said they had assisted Massachusetts state police and North Attleborough police with activity related to the Hernandez investigation at a strip club named Club Desire.

It was unclear if they believed Lloyd and Hernandez might have been at the club in the days before Lloyd died. A reporter was escorted out of the club Friday afternoon before she could speak with employees or patrons.

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Family members said they had heard from Lloyd’s girlfriend but not from Hernandez after Lloyd’s death. They are anxiously awaiting an arrest in the case.

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Brock Samson said:

Guilty and provable are different things. If the DA is issuing or close to issuing warrants then the DA could very well have enough to prove something and AHern would be risking a trial he didn't want in which case copping a plea is pretty reasonable. So basing that off the warrant seems pretty reasonable considering the legs of the warrant story. Not much of a conclusion about guilt there given the circumstances.

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You can try to play the walkback game all you want. You were lying when you claimed you weren't drawing conclusions, because you were clearly drawing conclusions. It is what it is. Think of it as you "misremembered", acknowledge that, and move on.

First rule of holes

DaBruinz said:

Seen by whom? ABCNews/Fox25 are the ones reporting that Lloyd and Ahern were seen together on Sunday. The Globe said that, it was in fact, late Friday Night/Early Saturday when they were last seen together.

Initially, people were making a big deal about the cleaners because it hadn't been verified that Lloyd had been killed at the dump/Industrial Park/Recycling Center.

What I find interesting is that, supposedly, surveillance footage showed Hernandez returning to the house early Monday morning after the shots were supposedly heard. The question I have is "what surveillance footage"? Is it from a neighbor's house or from Ahern's? If it was a neighbor's house, how clear is the image from the camera at 120+ feet? If it's from Ahern's house, why didn't the cops take it during their first search on Tuesday morning. Why wasn't the "smashed" surveillance system mentioned Tuesday morning? Why was it nearly 36 hours after the initial search that it came out?

With differing reports as to when Ahern last saw Lloyd, I don't even want to speculate on that. There are just too many plausible scenarios. From Ahern being 100% unknowing to Ahern having been the one who pulled the trigger because Lloyd had stuck his GF, to a drug deal gone bad..

Too many unknowns. Way too many unknowns and a lack of accurate reporting by anyone other than the Globe.

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sure.......but there's 2 major things that factor here...

first is the court of law.......the work will be done either by the prosecution or the defense to seek out every fact possible.......and then a decision will be rendered......may he does time, maybe he does not.....that is wide open.

second is the court of goodell......he has no problem pulling the trigger based on appearances alone......the NFL indefinitely suspended Vick the moment he was indicted....stallworth got a year for vehicular homicide.......expect something similar for AH....and it really can be simply for the black eye AH just gave the NFL

DaBruinz said:

ABCNews/Fox25 are the ones reporting that Lloyd and Ahern were seen together on Sunday. The Globe said that, it was in fact, late Friday Night/Early Saturday when they were last seen together.

Too many unknowns. Way too many unknowns and a lack of accurate reporting by anyone other than the Globe.

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From the Globe:

Video images taken early Monday morning appear to show New England Patriots tight end Aaron Hernandez together on Fayston Street in Boston with a Dorchester man whose bullet-ridden body was discovered later that day in a North Attleborough industrial park near Hernandez’s house, according to two law enforcement officials.

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Video images appear to show Aaron Hernandez with Dorchester man later found dead - Boston.com

Brock Samson said:

I'm not INSISTING the reports are correct though. How could I without direct knowledge? But the reported information is certainly more credible than the internet forum whinging about media inconsistency.

By the way, more info on the warrant: Report: “Paper” warrant issued for Hernandez | ProFootballTalk



Which seems a lot more plausible than whining about the media inconsistency.

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Yes, you have been insisting that the reports you've read are correct because you keep forming your opinion based on information that has already been called into question as to whether or not it was fact.

No, the reported information from FOX25 and ABC News is not more credible than the Boston Globe, which hasn't changed it's story and has made it a point to be consistent in it's reports.

The fact that you bring up Florio's BS about a "PAPER" warrant is just laughable. The guy hates the Patriots so much it's pathetic. Oh, and he's quoting Fox25. But, yeah. He's credible.

Sorry, but you've been destroyed on this subject. Your insistence on continuing to grasp at straws and hold on as tight as possible is laughable.

Deus Irae said:

You can try to play the walkback game all you want. You were lying when you claimed you weren't drawing conclusions, because you were clearly drawing conclusions. It is what it is. Think of it as you "misremembered", acknowledge that, and move on.

First rule of holes

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Sorry, that doesn't fly at all. Talking about things based on the way the DA is setting things up is not nearly the same as drawing conclusions about guilt. Call it whatever you like but you're making another non-argument.

Think of it as you "misremembered", acknowledge that, and move on.


"Hi, sports fans!!"

Brock Samson said:

Sorry, that doesn't fly at all. Talking about things based on the way the DA is setting things up is not nearly the same as drawing conclusions about guilt. Call it whatever you like but you're making another non-argument.

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You lied. It's a simple thing, and it was easily demonstrated. The rest is just you avoiding the admission.

Joker said:

Think of it as you "misremembered", acknowledge that, and move on.


"Hi, sports fans!!"

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Is it me, or does his head look big?