Another terrible league-wide rule is passed

i think that then you wouldn't be happy after all. but if jail makes you happy, then you do what you need to do.

mcmurtry86 said:

Many of these "personal bubble" ideas are quite similar to the Patriot Act which the conservatives jammed down the country's throat post 9/11.

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Revisionist history? Or you consider a Senate vote of 98-1 (2001) or 89-10 (2006) a one-party "ramming down the throat" situation? I would call the shenanigans involved in passing the Affordable Care Act a one-party "ramming down the throat" situation but the Patriot Act? Not at all. That was a bipartisan response to terrorism.

It is hard to imagine, especially considering the recent spate of serious scandals and revelations on data collection, that you are claiming that Democrats are more libertarian than Republicans. At best (in terms of your insinuation), both parties are equally bad.

All that said, this move has nothing to do with politics (of the league or team owners or anyone) and little to do with safety, so the orginal comment blaming Democrats was also off the mark.

no politics please

I agree with many posters. How the heck am I supposed to hide my pressure cooker bombs now?

Yeah you can't hide booze as easily - cry me a river.

goheels22002 said:

Yet another reason to really, really crack down on terrorists and random mass killers. The show of force in Boston and Watertown in April to find and nail those guys is to be admired and repeated.

These *********s have made our grade schools armed fortresses, made catching an airplane a nightmare, and now made sporting events inconvenient.

The Boston Marathon Bombings advanced no cause, improved no one's quality of life, gave no one the right to vote, and served no purpose. That act of terror was completely senseless.

But if you are the NFL, an owner, or head of security at an NFL stadium, you have to stand back and say, if sick neglected kids like the Tsarnaev brothers could do that to the finish line at the marathon, they could do it on Thursday, Sunday or Monday night at one of our games.

You know, I want to be sure that you, me, my friends and my family are safe when we plunk down hundreds of dollars to go to a game. If this is what is necessary, so be it. But my frustration is directed at these self-centered, twisted *********s who screw everything up for everybody else.

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Congrats. First post that made sense. Pity it was the last post on page 2.

rlcarr said:

They'd likely kill a lot more people in the tightly-packed crowds bottled up with no place to get away at the checkpoints than they would in the stadium itself.

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But less TV coverage.

Bruins29 said:

If you can get "it" in a seat cushion then you can get "it" in a jacket or your cloths or whatever.
...

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A seat cushion left behind is less weird looking than a guy in 20 degree weather taking off his parka and leaving it behind. Of course that is only about people who want to survive instead of becoming martyrs.

mcmurtry86 said:

Most owners, and the commissioner are conservatives and hardcore republicans ... That, or you seemed to totally miss out on the George W. Bush administration.

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Since you went politics, let me ask you who had all the phone records but still could not prevent the Boston Marathon bombings. At least President **** Cheney was a marginally competent tyrant.

Deus Irae said:

If they're already searching purses and bags, this is not about safety, because... they're already searching purses and bags.

You're being the kind of gullible person they're looking to buy into this, though, so you'll be helpful to them.

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You mean they were missing some alcohol when they were searching all the bags? So you admit this makes it easier for them to search for booze/food, but not bombs, right?

You are a gullible person if you think the Boston Marathon bombing did not give them cover for this.

Besides, if they have many initiatives to get people to go to the stadium (Internet access, etc.) and then they just for no reason decided to pi** off everyone by saving/ making an extra $500? Are you confusing a business like the NFL like the hyper-efficient US government?

Joker said:

no politics please

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I agree, but too late.

it was just a perfunctory general board message anyway..personally I could care less but Ian found out a long time ago that football and politics are better off divorced from each other...that's why there's a pollywannacrackatics thread around here somewhere

Tunescribe said:

Those who regularly attend games live know this isn't true. If you actually have gone and still believe that, you don't know what to look for.

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Ive been to plenty of games and theyre better on TV. I dont believe that sitting in the endzone when the teams are at the opposite end is a great vantage point. But some people like yourself like it.

Some stadiums wont show replays of the opposing teams if it might benefit them. People standing up so you cant see isnt enjoyable. Having to get up so the guy with the weak bladder can get by before he pisses his pants isnt either.

People that go to games miss things that are seen on TV.

Well, there haven't been any NFL games since the marathon bombing. Up 'til now plenty of people have taken backpacks to games. They've all been searched with no problems.

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Even without Goodells new rule, only a fool would bring a back pack to any sporting event after whats happened.

Triumph said:

Ive been to plenty of games and theyre better on TV. I dont believe that sitting in the endzone when the teams are at the opposite end is a great vantage point. But some people like yourself like it.

Some stadiums wont show replays of the opposing teams if it might benefit them. People standing up so you cant see isnt enjoyable. Having to get up so the guy with the weak bladder can get by before he pisses his pants isnt either.

People that go to games miss things that are seen on TV.

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Please tell me one significant thing I miss watching games live that is provided by television. Among things you can't see on TV:

* The entire field during play.
* Receiver routes and adjustments -- who's open, who's not.
* All pre-snap motion on both sides of the ball.
* DB/LB coverages indicating zone, man, etc.
* Line play post-pass.
* All penalty flags real-time.
* Substitutions (while you're watching commercials).
* Injuries and treatment (while you're watching commercials).
* Personnel on the sidelines -- who's there, who's not, who went to the locker room, who came back from the locker room, what the coaches are doing, etc., etc., etc. -- tons of stuff telling you what's going on that NEVER gets televised.
* Play clock.
* Announcement of inactives.
* Fly-overs, cheerleaders, other aspects of NFL pageantry.

That's just off the top of my head, I'm sure there's more.

Triumph said:

Even without Goodells new rule, only a fool would bring a back pack to any sporting event after whats happened.

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No kidding.

Aerys Offsides » Six Disastrous Things Sure To Happen Thanks To NFL’s Purse Policy

Tunescribe said:

Please tell me one significant thing I miss watching games live that is provided by television. Among things you can't see on TV:

* The entire field during play.
* Receiver routes and adjustments -- who's open, who's not.
* All pre-snap motion on both sides of the ball.
* DB/LB coverages indicating zone, man, etc.
* Line play post-pass.
* All penalty flags real-time.
* Substitutions (while you're watching commercials).
* Injuries and treatment (while you're watching commercials).
* Personnel on the sidelines -- who's there, who's not, who went to the locker room, who came back from the locker room, what the coaches are doing, etc., etc., etc. -- tons of stuff telling you what's going on that NEVER gets televised.
* Play clock.
* Announcement of inactives.
* Fly-overs, cheerleaders, other aspects of NFL pageantry.

That's just off the top of my head, I'm sure there's more.

No kidding.

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Great list.
However I confess to having missed a very significant thing when at the old stadium in 2001. Pats had lost their opener to the then hapless Bungles. Game two, Pats vs Jets. Week after the 911 hiatus. Tight. low scoring game. Testaverde goes back to pass and BAM! he's sacked and better yet the ball comes loose! Pats recover deep in Jets territory! Ref points the other way signifying our possession. Crowd goes wild with joy!

But wait! Refs convene and WTF!?!?! they give the Patriots' ball BACK to the Jets at the LOS and just advance the down marker! I and the crowd went ballistic. What we did not know was we had just seen the Tuck Rule invoked by the refs. Missed that being in the stands. No explanation.

PatsDeb said:

It's BS that TD Garden only allows "clutch" bags. I bring my purse there for every Bruins game I've gone to this year and last. They do a cursory "search" as you are stampeding through the gates with thousands of your closest friends. When I first started reading I was wondering why the NFL wanted to take a hit to their pro shops outside the gates, but I see they've solved that by requiring clear bags. I guess all the stores at Patriot's Place don't mind switching to clear bags? Why this dumb overkill? Since when has someone brought a concealed explosive device into a game? It might hurt the NFL as when I cannot bring my purse somewhere, I usually leave all my credit cards in it in the car. Ladies don't like to go shopping without their purses, dummies.

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If I can't bring in a backpack, you can't bring in a purse. Fair is fair.

Tunescribe said:

Please tell me one significant thing I miss watching games live that is provided by television. Among things you can't see on TV:

* The entire field during play.
* Receiver routes and adjustments -- who's open, who's not.
* All pre-snap motion on both sides of the ball.
* DB/LB coverages indicating zone, man, etc.
* Line play post-pass.
* All penalty flags real-time.
* Substitutions (while you're watching commercials).
* Injuries and treatment (while you're watching commercials).
* Personnel on the sidelines -- who's there, who's not, who went to the locker room, who came back from the locker room, what the coaches are doing, etc., etc., etc. -- tons of stuff telling you what's going on that NEVER gets televised.
* Play clock.
* Announcement of inactives.
* Fly-overs, cheerleaders, other aspects of NFL pageantry.

That's just off the top of my head, I'm sure there's more.

No kidding.

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I've been to a lot of games, and 90% of this stuff, you can't actually see, because some yokel stands up in front of you, or, like 90% of the people in the stadium, you're too far away.

See who is on the sideline? For real? Most people can't even read their numbers from where they're sitting, let alone have the numbers memorized.

Also, the playclock, inactives, etc, are almost always televised.

Zeus said:

For any given NFL game, 60-80,000 people enter the stadium in a 60-90 minute period before the game. There are only ten home games per year so security is administered by a part-time work force with questionable training at best. For a significant portion of the games, many fans wear multiple layers of clothing, complicating the security challenge even more.

It's unrealistic to think these security measures are going to be all that effective. I'm not altogether sure why people need to bring bags into the game in the first place. Plus, the rules are pretty clear on bringing alcoholic beverages into the stadium.

It's tempting to take the cynical view here and say the teams are doing this solely to protect concession sales. The process of screening the bags involves additional security staff (which costs money), creates a more cumbersome, time-consumimg process for fans entering the building (inconveniencing other fans) and is in all likelihood unreliable.

But I suppose that if you are inclined to second guess coaches and GMs, the league's security experts are fair game as well.

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I havent read through the whole thing
It seems the arguments here are:
1) There are already security measures so why do they need more
-I think its pretty clear that the security measures are weak at best, and while the enhancement is also weak, it is an enhancement.

2) It is just a facade to keep you from bringing in food and alcohol.
-I'm pretty sure that there are rules against bringing in food and alcohol that are part of the ticket agreement. If people are violating that rule, how is the league wrong to find a better way to catch them?

The 3rd is that it makes it inconvenient, which is certainly true.

Synovia said:

I've been to a lot of games, and 90% of this stuff, you can't actually see, because some yokel stands up in front of you, or, like 90% of the people in the stadium, you're too far away.

See who is on the sideline? For real? Most people can't even read their numbers from where they're sitting, let alone have the numbers memorized.

Also, the playclock, inactives, etc, are almost always televised.

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I went to 6 games last year, and thats the first time I have consistently gone to games.
I see both sides of the coin. The biggest drawbacks of being at the stadium are the built in mental reliance on TV replay, the information you miss that the TV provides (injuries in particular) the rare cases where someone obstructs your view.
Watching on TV you can be less focussed on the big picture knowing they will replay (or you can rewind). Focussing on one battle on the OL that may not be a big part of the play while watching on TV doesnt really make you miss anything. At the stadium you could miss something that won't get replayed.
However, when you are live you CAN focus on things anywhere on the field, focus on any player or battle and not have the camera leave it.
Its just a different way of watching the game and being used to one makes it uncomfortable to do the other.
As the season wore on last year, I was able to focus on a player and still not miss the action on the play, which is the way football is intended to be watched, live.
The biggest advantage of being at the game is the atmosphere. The first game we went to last year (my now 14 year old son goes with me) was the OT win vs the Jets. The excitement level was immense and no doubt it was better than being at home, but it also lasted 30 more minutes of leaving the stadium and walking to the car in the crowd. Especially for a 13 year old. The next was the McCourty end zone Int on the last play of the game to preserve a win. We were there for the comeback vs the 49ers which has the stadium rocking at least as much. You just don't get that at home on TV.

Synovia said:

I've been to a lot of games, and 90% of this stuff, you can't actually see, because some yokel stands up in front of you, or, like 90% of the people in the stadium, you're too far away.

See who is on the sideline? For real? Most people can't even read their numbers from where they're sitting, let alone have the numbers memorized.

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Where on earth do you sit? My season tix are on the mezzanine level (227) and I see everything I listed -- all the time. I have binoculars but don't use them that much. I get TONS of information watching the sidelines. Tons!

Tunescribe said:

Please tell me one significant thing I miss watching games live that is provided by television. Among things you can't see on TV:

* The entire field during play.
* Receiver routes and adjustments -- who's open, who's not.

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Yes, you can see that while I am watching the OL vs DL and Brady.

* All pre-snap motion on both sides of the ball.

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Its shown on TV. You cannot see beyond the LBs but only the Safeties are playing that deep.

* DB/LB coverages indicating zone, man, etc.
* Line play post-pass.

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You can tell zone if the DB switches off and the line play is shown on TV

* All penalty flags real-time.

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They are shown on TV with replay. Sometimes the replay is run a few times if its a questionable call.

* Substitutions (while you're watching commercials).

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You can see most subsitutions during the play.

* Injuries and treatment (while you're watching commercials).

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Commercials give a chance to use the restroom and get another beer.

Injured players are shown getting treatment on the sidelines or leaving the field. Reports are up to the minute on who is out for any extended time from sideline reporters.

* Personnel on the sidelines -- who's there, who's not, who went to the locker room, who came back from the locker room, what the coaches are doing, etc., etc., etc. -- tons of stuff telling you what's going on that NEVER gets televised.

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Did you see the blowout that Brady had with Obrien? Any kind of drama or dust up is always shown on TV. If you think that the NFL isnt showing that stuff youre wrong.

* Play clock.

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Its on TV usually under 10 seconds.

* Announcement of inactives.

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They are announced here before every game.

* Fly-overs, cheerleaders, other aspects of NFL pageantry.

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Ive seen every kind of Jet flyover and Im not watching for the cheerleaders or Pat The Patriot mascot.

That's just off the top of my head, I'm sure there's more.

No kidding.

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I can log on to this site and NFL.COM during the game for real time stats. If every seat was at the 50 yard line and 20 rows from the field that would be one thing, but theyre not. Ive gone to road games and had to settle for lousy seats and could not see all the things you have listed.

patsfan-1982 said:

this is all to stop people from sneaking drinks and snacks into the stadium, with the price for a beer and a hotdog being over $10 they don't want u bringing your own

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I have no way of knowing the role that protecting concession revenues at stadiums did or did not play, but whatever it was, that is not the primary reason for this move.

If the owners were willing to foot the bill for more security guards to inspect bags, the bags would not have to be transparent. So, I do put that squarely on the owners.

Bruins29 said:

I dont go to live NFL games so I dont care but I know people who do go and know why they would want to bring items. I dont see this going over well in Lambeau Field where just about everyone brings a seat cushion since the stadium has metal benches. Not gonna fly. Domed stadiums.... sure. Not any outdoor one with the weather.

Plus is this really about security and protecting people? If it was they would have to ban this stuff at all college games and at all sporting events. Is that going to happen? Then again this could just be about money. You want a seat cushion? Get them in the proshop. cha ching.

Either way the terrorists are winning because we are changing the way we live. Too may lefties in the country who wont be happy until we all live in our own personal bubbles.

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Let's take the political jabs ("lefties...") to the political forum.

To me, the broader and valid question is that this is about where society chooses to draw a line. It is impossible to elevate security at every event or in every place where someone who wishes to do harm to innocent people can do so. High profile, professional sporting events is as good a place as any to draw that line.

My only problem with this is that the owners could get rid of the need for the bags to be "transparent" if they were willing to invest the money in providing enough security guards to inspect the bags without causing undue delays.

goheels22002 said:

Yet another reason to really, really crack down on terrorists and random mass killers. The show of force in Boston and Watertown in April to find and nail those guys is to be admired and repeated.

These *********s have made our grade schools armed fortresses, made catching an airplane a nightmare, and now made sporting events inconvenient.

The Boston Marathon Bombings advanced no cause, improved no one's quality of life, gave no one the right to vote, and served no purpose. That act of terror was completely senseless.

But if you are the NFL, an owner, or head of security at an NFL stadium, you have to stand back and say, if sick neglected kids like the Tsarnaev brothers could do that to the finish line at the marathon, they could do it on Thursday, Sunday or Monday night at one of our games.

You know, I want to be sure that you, me, my friends and my family are safe when we plunk down hundreds of dollars to go to a game. If this is what is necessary, so be it. But my frustration is directed at these self-centered, twisted *********s who screw everything up for everybody else.

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Well said. Let's keep the blame where it belongs.

The only thing on which I fault the owners and NFL in this regard is that they are trying to save money on game day security by requiring that the bags be transparent; if they would invest in additional security, they could inspect opaque bags without causing undue delays.