4 Picks for #29

Normally I love these deals and it's a great value but in this one dunno if BB outsmarted himself. That's a really far trade down for a team that needs maybe 1 or 2 impact players as opposed to depth at several areas. Depending on the makeup of the draft, if there are a couple Asante Samuels, Alphonzo Dennards, or Aaron Hernandez's in the mid to lower rounds at positions we are in need then yeah it's a brilliant deal but until everything pans out we won't really know if this was the right thing to do. Who knows maybe everyone we were eyeing at the end of the 1st round/early 2nd round will end up not being worth it too, and hopefully I'm wrong but we'll see.

The "value" in this draft, according to several draftniks was in the 2nd and 3rd. But why the insufferable focus on value? They need people who can play and they don't seem to have confidence in their own scouting department. They seem to like the "throw a bunch of players against the wall and see who sticks" approach.

Hey, here's a little thought experiment:

The Patriots want to trade up toward the top of round two, and everybody knows it. So the Eagles manage to shake them down for picks #52, 83 and 102 -- an extra third and fourth just to move up 17 spots in the second to #35, which is a heck of a premium. The Eagles fleeced them. The Patriots select WR Robert Woods.

Even in that "fleecing" scenario, the Patriots would be getting the player most think they would have taken at #29 plus a free seventh rounder.

How can anybody seriously object to this trade NOW, before they've even used any of the picks they acquired -- especially with Caserio confirming that their target from pick 29 is still on the board?

VJCPatriot said:

Aaron Hernandez was one of those '4th round jags'. It's hilarious how everybody overreacts when the Pats make a trade in the draft and act ready to jump off a ledge. Well you know what, I won't talk you off the ledge. Go ahead and jump. It will improve the quality of Pats fandom if the jumpers would just take a hike already.

BB just pulled off a FOUR for ONE. That's nearly highway robbery. Don't go by the antiquated trade value chart. When you get FOUR bites at the applie instead of ONE, that's usually a very good thing. And I trust our scouts a lot more than the Jets so I think they will hit on at least a couple of those extra chances.

TWO good players is better than ONE. And on top of that Patterson is a pretty high BUST risk regardless of perceived talent level.

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When you get to bite is very important because of how much apple is left.

IF we can get good players then it can make sense, if we can only pick a few JAGs then it doesn't make sense. There's a reason HoF players tend to be drafted earlier rather than later.

PATSYLICIOUS said:

Normally I love these deals and it's a great value but in this one dunno if BB outsmarted himself. That's a really far trade down for a team that needs maybe 1 or 2 impact players as opposed to depth at several areas. Depending on the makeup of the draft, if there are a couple Asante Samuels, Alphonzo Dennards, or Aaron Hernandez's in the mid to lower rounds at positions we are in need then yeah it's a brilliant deal but until everything pans out we won't really know if this was the right thing to do. Who knows maybe everyone we were eyeing at the end of the 1st round/early 2nd round will end up not being worth it too, and hopefully I'm wrong but we'll see.

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What if he believes the guys other teams covet are not as good as the guys they value highly? What if he's highly confident he can trade up a few slots to land the guy he covets? And that by trading down, he picks up a mid-rounder that allows him to take a flyer on Honey Badger? That way, he takes the guy he really wants at WR (could be Woods, Wheaton, Allen, Dobson) and a guy like Mathieu. Maybe two WRs!

Bertil said:

The "value" in this draft, according to several draftniks was in the 2nd and 3rd. But why the insufferable focus on value? They need people who can play and they don't seem to have confidence in their own scouting department. They seem to like the "throw a bunch of players against the wall and see who sticks" approach.

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Maybe they've come to the same conclusion as the fans. Maybe throw a bunch of players against the wall IS the best strategy, especially if the extra picks allow you to take players with warts on them like Mallet, Hernandez, Spikes, Mathieu, Dennard, Keenan Allen, Carradine--all guys who have fallen from being highly regarded.

The draft is a crapshoot, Gronk & Vollmer were 2nd rnd picks others were busts.

With 2 picks you might take Gronk & Butler, with 1 pick you just take Butler.....

PATSYLICIOUS said:

Normally I love these deals and it's a great value but in this one dunno if BB outsmarted himself. That's a really far trade down for a team that needs maybe 1 or 2 impact players as opposed to depth at several areas. Depending on the makeup of the draft, if there are a couple Asante Samuels, Alphonzo Dennards, or Aaron Hernandez's in the mid to lower rounds at positions we are in need then yeah it's a brilliant deal but until everything pans out we won't really know if this was the right thing to do. Who knows maybe everyone we were eyeing at the end of the 1st round/early 2nd round will end up not being worth it too, and hopefully I'm wrong but we'll see.

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The bulk of the value is in the second and third rounds. But at a need position like WR, the guys that you would be looking at to ultimately fill that need like Woods and Hunter should be off the board by early second round. If Belichick doesn't trade back up and the bones are picked clean on the quality receivers remaining in this draft, it will be a head scratcher to say the least.

Off The Grid said:

I'm astonished that so many live for so long with such soft, feeble minds & no natural defenses against the Elements.

***

We ravaged the Vikings.

There's simply no other way to view it.

***

If I was teaching a Class called "Realistic Mock Drafts 1.0", and some Patriots Fan had turned in a Mock with this Trade in it, I would've laughed in'is face, rolled up'is Report, swatted'm on the nose, and told'm to try something realistic.

***


We ravaged the Vikings..

There's simply no other way to view it.

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Totally totally agree. I posted in another thread that we got $1.01 on the dollar on the "old" trade value chart and $1.93 using the "new" one that actually in my opinion is more realistic as it uses actual players that were selected in the respective slots and a 30 year draft history. $1.93 on the dollar!!!! YEA! WE FLEECED THEM! THERE IS ZERO DOUBT HERE!

naF staP said:

So according to the value chart the Pats gave up pick 29 (670) and got 647 (52,83,102,229). I'm not overly excited. Could have got a starting player instead of a couple of guys that might play as backups. I would have liked a receiver at 29.

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WRONG! #29 using the old trade value chart is worth 640 not 670. Using the newer chart, they received $1.93 on the dollar. gained 53 points for 31 points. I am OVERLY excited!

I'm very happy with the players that are still on the board for tonight. Just about all of the WR prospects that I liked are still there. Several DB's that I liked are still there.

And several OG/C that I liked are still there. Along with several DT's and there seems to be very solid players. Notice I don't use the word "values" , that's for the TV draft guru's to use. I'm talking about real players who could help the Patriots is several area's.

So yes, I'm happy.

jsull87 said:

I'm hoping for something along the lines of. Woods, Jesse Williams, Matieu and Caradine. I would be happy with that.

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I would be ecstatic with that!

grux said:

There is plenty of talent available after the 2nd round. These players were drafted in the third or lower)

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Alfonzo Dennard (Unusual scenario, everyone knew he was high round talent)
Stevan Ridley (Above average)
Ryan Mallett (We don't know if he's talent. All he has is promise)
Marcus Cannon (Hasn't contributed much yet)
Aaron Hernandez (Gold)
Zoltan Mesko (Most punters and kickers are picked low anyway)
Julian Edelman (Above average, remains to be seen)
Matt Slater (ST)
David Thomas (So good he's not even on the team)
Stephen Gostkowski (Kickers usually found this low)
Nick Kaczur (Bust)
James Sanders (Not on team)
Matt Cassel (netted a second when packaged with Vrabel)
Asante Samuel (talent)
Dan Koppen (talent)
Tully Banta-Cain (not on team)
Jarvis Green (scrub FA)
David Givens (talent)

Not a very good pickup if you ask me. I get wary when we trade down because the Patriots seem to be unsure of their own talent evaluation, relying on numbers rather than talent evaluation.

Granted, it's been better in recent years, particularly in the last three, so we'll see.

upstater1 said:

What if he believes the guys other teams covet are not as good as the guys they value highly? What if he's highly confident he can trade up a few slots to land the guy he covets? And that by trading down, he picks up a mid-rounder that allows him to take a flyer on Honey Badger? That way, he takes the guy he really wants at WR (could be Woods, Wheaton, Allen, Dobson) and a guy like Mathieu. Maybe two WRs!

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That's entirely possible and I never said the deal didn't make sense, but we don't know that right now. Could be taking a gamble too that someone slips down to that spot. And trading back up seems a bit counter productive at this point since you would have to spend those resources we just gained by giving up a 1st rounder where there's lots of good talent going/about to go at a position of great need.

KontradictioN said:

The bulk of the value is in the second and third rounds. But at a need position like WR, the guys that you would be looking at to ultimately fill that need like Woods and Hunter should be off the board by early second round. If Belichick doesn't trade back up and the bones are picked clean on the quality receivers remaining in this draft, it will be a head scratcher to say the least.

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That's why for our specific situation I am not ready to declare this trade a win win like most. If we are a team with several holes to fill it may be a different story but as you and I pointed out, when you are looking at a sore need at 1 position and not many other weaknesses it may suit us well to grab it before you drop down a tier and have a surplus of picks on that menu.

DocHoliday said:

Alfonzo Dennard (Unusual scenario, everyone knew he was high round talent)
Stevan Ridley (Above average)
Ryan Mallett (We don't know if he's talent. All he has is promise)
Marcus Cannon (Hasn't contributed much yet)
Aaron Hernandez (Gold)
Zoltan Mesko (Most punters and kickers are picked low anyway)
Julian Edelman (Above average, remains to be seen)
Matt Slater (ST)
David Thomas (So good he's not even on the team)
Stephen Gostkowski (Kickers usually found this low)
Nick Kaczur (Bust)
James Sanders (Not on team)
Matt Cassel (netted a second when packaged with Vrabel)
Asante Samuel (talent)
Dan Koppen (talent)
Tully Banta-Cain (not on team)
Jarvis Green (scrub FA)
David Givens (talent)

Not a very good pickup if you ask me. I get wary when we trade down because the Patriots seem to be unsure of their own talent evaluation, relying on numbers rather than talent evaluation.

Granted, it's been better in recent years, particularly in the last three, so we'll see.

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Really? Jarvis Green was a solid contributor on this team for a while. TBC, a seventh rounder, managed to stick, grab over 20 sacks for us, and even earned himself a more than $10 million deal with the 49ers. Ridley just turned in the best season by a Pats' back since Dillon -- almost a decade. Samuel was a 4th round gem; I have a feeling that if he stayed with the team instead of leaving in free agency, you wouldn't just write "talent." Koppen was a 5th rounder who played at a very high level for a long time. Slater is not just any old ST, he's one of the very best. Most people are pretty high on Cannon, I know I am.

DocHoliday said:

Jarvis Green (scrub FA)

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For a 4th round selection he put in 8 decent years as a rotational sub.

adjusted the revisionist history

DocHoliday said:

Alfonzo Dennard (Unusual scenario, everyone knew he was high round talent)
Stevan Ridley (Above average)
Ryan Mallett (We don't know if he's talent. All he has is promise)
Marcus Cannon played in 23 games in 2 years
Aaron Hernandez (Gold)
Zoltan Mesko (Most punters and kickers are picked low anyway)
Julian Edelman (Above average, remains to be seen)
Matt Slater (ST)
David Thomas (So good he's not even on the team)
Stephen Gostkowski (Kickers usually found this low)
Nick Kaczur started 62 games for the pats
James Sanders started 50 games and had 8 INT's for the pata
Matt Cassel - vrabel was added at the request of the pats
Asante Samuel (talent)
Dan Koppen (talent)
Tully Banta-Cain started 21 games and had 23.5 sacks
Jarvis Green played in 121 games, started 46, had 28 sacks
David Givens (talent)

Not a very good pickup if you ask me. I get wary when we trade down because the Patriots seem to be unsure of their own talent evaluation, relying on numbers rather than talent evaluation.

Granted, it's been better in recent years, particularly in the last three, so we'll see.

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PATSYLICIOUS said:

That's why for our specific situation I am not ready to declare this trade a win win like most. If we are a team with several holes to fill it may be a different story but as you and I pointed out, when you are looking at a sore need at 1 position and not many other weaknesses it may suit us well to grab it before you drop down a tier and have a surplus of picks on that menu.

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Nope. It's not a win-win yet at all. And I've been beating the drum for a trade down for, literally, months now. The fact of the matter is that this team needed extra picks in the mid rounds and another second rounder with the way the draft was going to fall. The only beef I have is the location of the additional second rounder vs. the needs we have. I'm taking a "well okay, but let's wait and see" approach because the team may very well need to trade up.

Pats0204 said:

Totally totally agree. I posted in another thread that we got $1.01 on the dollar on the "old" trade value chart and $1.93 using the "new" one that actually in my opinion is more realistic as it uses actual players that were selected in the respective slots and a 30 year draft history. $1.93 on the dollar!!!! YEA! WE FLEECED THEM! THERE IS ZERO DOUBT HERE!

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They got even value, nothing more and nothing less.