RFA Emmanuel Sanders visits Pats 3/16; signs offer sheet 4/10, sheet matched 4/14

I don't blame him. He doesn't want to go into camp having lost Wallace AND Sanders. Kinda like Brady going into camp without Welker and Lloyd.

Tunescribe said:

I have a feeling Sanders won't be here. Roethlisberger reportedly is campaigning hard to keep him. I'll bet Ben's feeling a bit desperate at this point.

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Tunescribe said:

I have a feeling Sanders won't be here. Roethlisberger reportedly is campaigning hard to keep him. I'll bet Ben's feeling a bit desperate at this point.

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Well at least we know how the 50/50 split choice is being divied up big ben wants emmanuel, and everyone else wants to trade him.
It's no secret that the creep pretty much makes all the decisions for them so it would be no surprise if the punk throws enough of a tantrum the Rooney's will give in to his wishes...but only because he's such an upstanding class A example of what Pittsburgh is all about. Lol.
Can't recall 1 time when Tom whined about a new o coordinator, or personnel decisions, yet this idiot does every chance he has...cause the steelers front office needs big betty's input on those decisions

Whatever. Get him, or not I'll be so ******* happy when this drama, is over Sunday...or is it Monday?

Deus Irae said:

Had Mike Wallace been on the Patriots the last 3 seasons and all other things been equal, the Patriots would probably be coming off of 3 straight Super Bowl victories.

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I would argue if Wallace was on the Pats the last three seasons, he would be unemployed right now. One trick pony, vertical threats with no route running ability and questionable football intelligence rarely do well in the Pats' offense.

I doubt the Pats would have won the last three Super Bowls with him. I'd say at most the Pats would have won one. And that is because the Pats were really down to Welker and Hernadez in the last Super Bowl the Pats played in.

FoxboroFlyer said:

Well at least we know how the 50/50 split choice is being divied up big ben wants emmanuel, and everyone else wants to trade him.
It's no secret that the creep pretty much makes all the decisions for them so it would be no surprise if the punk throws enough of a tantrum the Rooney's will give in to his wishes...but only because he's such an upstanding class A example of what Pittsburgh is all about. Lol.
Can't recall 1 time when Tom whined about a new o coordinator, or personnel decisions, yet this idiot does every chance he has...cause the steelers front office needs big betty's input on those decisions

Whatever. Get him, or not I'll be so ******* happy when this drama, is over Sunday...or is it Monday?

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I was surprised to see the offer sheet is for only $2.5 million. If the Pats really wanted to make sure it isn't matched, I don't see why they didn't offer him a bit more.

Tunescribe said:

I was surprised to see the offer sheet is for only $2.5 million. If the Pats really wanted to make sure it isn't matched, I don't see why they didn't offer him a bit more.

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IMO, it's one of those this is what we are prepared to pay him this year (knowing the steelers cap space issues) and if you match it, fine. You just lost additional cap space.
If you don't match it, fine, we just got a wr at value we deemed acceptable.
It's all speculation at this point, but I don't think the Pats are in bad shape either way.

FWIW, I really thought Harvin was coming here, initially.
I'd have gladly handed over what the hawks did along with that contract, for his services.

I think the Steelers will ultimately match the offer and I won't be too disappointed about it. To be honest, I don't see the hype. He is a solid player and has some potential, but lets not pretend he is a pro bowler. He can make a few plays and does some things well but I wouldn't consider him a difference maker. In the end I'm completely indifferent towards the situation.

Brady_to_Moss said:

i don't want mike wallace...a player that is very inconsisitant and drops some big catches. I want Fitz, Johnson type for the outside. A big physical guy

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For the money he was paid, I didn't want the actual Mike Wallace either.
But we absolutely need someone with his particular attributes: height, deep speed, and the ability
to make tacklers miss after he's caught a pass.

Tunescribe said:

I was surprised to see the offer sheet is for only $2.5 million. If the Pats really wanted to make sure it isn't matched, I don't see why they didn't offer him a bit more.

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Because he's not worth more, at least to me he isn't. I kinda hope that the Squealers' FO listens
to Rapistbooger and decides to match; I'd rather have the pick & the maneuverability it provides.

captain stone said:

Because he's not worth more, at least to me he isn't. I kinda hope that the Squealers' FO listens
to Rapistbooger and decides to match; I'd rather have the pick & the maneuverability it provides.

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I hope they don't match. I know we haven't had luck with WR lately but I have confidence in both BB and McDaniels, and for them to want to give up a 3rd round pick, in a draft where they are short picks should tell you something. They really like Sanders. Say what you will bout BB track record with receivers, but McDaniel's is pretty good. He was our OC in 07 when Brady was breaking all records throwing to Moss and Welker. He got the best out of a journeymen Brandon Lloyd in 3 different teams, and he did draft 2 receivers in Denver in D.Thomas and Eric Decker, that look to be absolute beasts!

I'd be a dissapointed fan in the Steelers do match.

Wilfork#75 said:

I think the Steelers will ultimately match the offer and I won't be too disappointed about it. To be honest, I don't see the hype. He is a solid player and has some potential, but lets not pretend he is a pro bowler. He can make a few plays and does some things well but I wouldn't consider him a difference maker. In the end I'm completely indifferent towards the situation.

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Sadly, the Patriots need an outside WR, I am not sure the draft is a place they can find one to contribute this year/next year. Sanders is a guy the Patriots really need...or somebody else.

Nunchucks said:

Sadly, the Patriots need an outside WR, I am not sure the draft is a place they can find one to contribute this year/next year. Sanders is a guy the Patriots really need...or somebody else.

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My biggest issue is I don't think Sanders is that outside guy. My biggest problem with our WRs isn't so much talent as it is we haven't added any skill sets that make up for our past deficiencies on offense. We don't have any true perimeter receivers (ones we are confident will make the roster anyway) that can help spread the defense horizontally and ease some of the congestion over the middle of the field. We don't have anyone to threaten the deep part of the field and keep the safeties honest. We don't have anyone on the outside that can command double coverage and open up things inside. And we don't have any WRs with good catch radius to help ease the burden on Brady. One of the issues with "smurf" WRs is they have a smaller catch radius and the QB needs to make a more precise throw to get a completion. I want someone bigger and longer on the outside that can go up and make a catch or make a nice grab away from their body. That is why I loved Alshon Jeffery last year, you put it anywhere near him and he is gonna catch it.

I also don't really agree that rookie WRs can't contribute right away in this system. Since Bethel Johnson in 2002 we have only drafted 1 WR that I think had a reasonable expectation of contributing year 1 and that was Chad Jackson. He was just a bust but that happens sometimes. The only other two guys we have taken in the 3rd round or higher in that time are Brandon Tate (coming off a major knee injury so he never really had a chance to compete early) and Taylor Price (a raw route runner from a small school with a running offense). I think we could absolutely draft a WR or two in the first 3 rounds that could contribute early. That doesn't mean they would be stars and that they might not be limited in what they can do, but I think they could certainly help.

Looking at the rookie WRs this year I have tried to look at how they might fit early on and what could they offer year 1. I keep going back and forth on who I think might be the best tandem to draft in terms of talent, fit and value. Right now I think I have settled on Quinton Patton at 59 and Da'Rick Rogers in the early/mid 3rd after a trade back from 29. Rogers is one of the most well rounded and pro ready receivers in this draft. He has great route versatility, works all over the field and I think he could step in really early as a solid contributor on the outside. He might take a year or two to really develop into a quality player, but I think he will at least be serviceable early. Patton is much more limited in what he can do, but the things he will be able to do he does very well. Right now he is mainly a vertical/screen guy. Doesn't run too many breaking routes but he is good going deep and excellent with the ball in his hands. The other thing I really like about him is I think he is the best redzone WR in this draft. The reason being, his feet are amazing. He destroys press coverage and is able to get off the line with ease against just about anyone. In tight quarters like the redzone I think he will be deadly on short slants fades where he can get initial separation with his footwork. He might not be able to do a whole lot early, but the things he will do will be very good.

AzorianPats said:

I hope they don't match. I know we haven't had luck with WR lately but I have confidence in both BB and McDaniels, and for them to want to give up a 3rd round pick, in a draft where they are short picks should tell you something. They really like Sanders. Say what you will bout BB track record with receivers, but McDaniel's is pretty good. He was our OC in 07 when Brady was breaking all records throwing to Moss and Welker. He got the best out of a journeymen Brandon Lloyd in 3 different teams, and he did draft 2 receivers in Denver in D.Thomas and Eric Decker, that look to be absolute beasts!

I'd be a dissapointed fan in the Steelers do match.

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Count me in the camp that would like the steelers to take the third round pick. I have really liked the idea of Sanders playing for the Pats next year. One more day though.

First, I will just say that I am not qualified to judge whether sanders can play on the outside. I will leave that judgement call to the professionals. I will say that there are plenty of number 1 WRs in the league with Sander's measurables.

Second, it isn't just the Patriots who have trouble drafting WRs to contribute in the first year, it is the NFL. Rookie receivers just do not contribute in year 1, Unless the team is drafting somebody like Green, Jones, or Fitzgerald, receivers just are not expected and are really unable to contribute to an offense in the first couple of years.

If bill wants sanders it should be an indication that the patriots

A. Like him alot

and

B. Don't think they can find something better in the draft.

There two biggest positions we've had trouble with for years have been CB and WR, and when you think about it, they are very similar positions with a 'swagger' factor involved which cannot be measured, the best players for each of these positions are instinctive and skilled, i think we all know that the Patriots are much better are judging talent based on how much beef it has, Bill understands leverage, technique and measurables.

In signing Emmanual Sanders to an offer sheet, the Patriots are admitting their weakness in identifying WR talent in the draft, particularly in the 3rd round.

I think they believe Sanders has great potential in their system, at least for the role they need them in which is the quick and short pass game, the most important features of any receiver the Patriots will be looking at with be the ability to get open and the ability to produce YAC, As we all know, Brandon Lloyd was terrible at producing YAC because of his propensity to fall down immediately after catching the ball for fear of being hurt otherwise.

I've said for years that Tom Brady's ability to deliver the deep ball has deteriorated for years now and that even if the Patriots had a 'burner' on the outside, he wouldn't be able to reliably complete a pass to them often enough to justify bringing in a big time big money WR, this isn't to say that Brady is terrible, only that he is much better at making decisions and reading defenses than anything else now and having big receivers with good hands and the ability to get open very quickly is a better asset for the Patriots than anything else, because if you get open, Brady can find you, but if you are open deep, he might not be able to reach you.

Sanders has been in the league for years now, he knows what the pace of the game is already so that won't be a factor like it would if you brought in a WR from the draft.

If the Patriots fail to acquire Sanders we'll probably be looking at bringing Lloyd back and hoping he doesn't blow up the locker room.

serifyn said:

I've said for years that Tom Brady's ability to deliver the deep ball has deteriorated for years now and that even if the Patriots had a 'burner' on the outside, he wouldn't be able to reliably complete a pass to them often enough to justify bringing in a big time big money WR, this isn't to say that Brady is terrible, only that he is much better at making decisions and reading defenses than anything else now and having big receivers with good hands and the ability to get open very quickly is a better asset for the Patriots than anything else, because if you get open, Brady can find you, but if you are open deep, he might not be able to reach you.

Sanders has been in the league for years now, he knows what the pace of the game is already so that won't be a factor like it would if you brought in a WR from the draft.

If the Patriots fail to acquire Sanders we'll probably be looking at bringing Lloyd back and hoping he doesn't blow up the locker room.

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Sanders is not a "big" receiver, though.

I bet Pitt matches Sanders offer and keeps him.

1. The 2.5 isnt that much of an increase from his tender. Surely Pitt can move some money around to make room.

2. The Steelers arent the Dolphins and dont want the perception that NE is pushing them around. The Rodney Bailey deal was a joke on the Patriots.

3. Heading into 2013 with just Brown and Cotchery as experienced WRs isnt a winning formula. Burress is done and the rest of the Pitt WRs are JAGs. Sanders has been groomed to start this season and likely played into the decision to let Mike Wallace leave.

Nunchucks said:

Sadly, the Patriots need an outside WR, I am not sure the draft is a place they can find one to contribute this year/next year. Sanders is a guy the Patriots really need...or somebody else.

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Actually, I think Sanders is going to be the slot and replace Welker's role. I think Amendola, Edelman, Jenkins, and Jones are the outside guys. I think the Pats have tried to bolster the outside receivers, just not in the way many people on this board wants (deep threat).

I have always stated deep threats are the most overrated thing in football. They are flashy toys unless you have an absolute stud like Fitzgerald. Outside threats are far more important especially in this offense. The Pats don't need a guy who can catch balls 30 yards down the field. They need a guy who is going to force coverage ot the outside and leave Gronk and Hernandez with mismatches over the middle. I think the Pats agree with me.

Whether the group of receivers they have now are the ones to achieve this goal is yet to be determined, but that looks to be the way the Pats are building this team.

One thing I will say about Sanders is that I feel he was not a great fit for the Steelers. He is a quick route runner who would benefit from a QB with a quick release. That ain't Roethlisberger. Brady is a far better QB for Sanders' skills. Whether it will make Sanders emerge as good or even great WR is yet to be seen, but he does have skills which haven't emerged in any consistency. A system change could be what he needs for them to emerge with consistency.

Rob0729 said:

Actually, I think Sanders is going to be the slot and replace Welker's role. I think Amendola, Edelman, Jenkins, and Jones are the outside guys. I think the Pats have tried to bolster the outside receivers, just not in the way many people on this board wants (deep threat).

One thing I will say about Sanders is that I feel he was not a great fit for the Steelers. He is a quick route runner who would benefit from a QB with a quick release. That ain't Roethlisberger. Brady is a far better QB for Sanders' skills. Whether it will make Sanders emerge as good or even great WR is yet to be seen, but he does have skills which haven't emerged in any consistency. A system change could be what he needs for them to emerge with consistency.

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I like the idea of Sanders as the slot guy and Amendola outside, although when Kraft shared the Pats' version of the Amendola signing said that they had to move on him when they got the sense that Welker was going elsewhere.

Hadn't thought about how much better Brady might make Sanders than Roethlisberger...interesting and hopeful

betterthanthealternative said:

I like the idea of Sanders as the slot guy and Amendola outside, although when Kraft shared the Pats' version of the Amendola signing said that they had to move on him when they got the sense that Welker was going elsewhere.

Hadn't thought about how much better Brady might make Sanders than Roethlisberger...interesting and hopeful

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I think people may have taken Kraft too literal. I think Amendola replaced Welker as the Pats' #1 WR, but not necessarily replacing Welker in the same exact role. The Pats were only going to pay a WR the money Amendola got, but that doesn't mean they were going to use the receivers in same way.

betterthanthealternative said:

I like the idea of Sanders as the slot guy and Amendola outside, although when Kraft shared the Pats' version of the Amendola signing said that they had to move on him when they got the sense that Welker was going elsewhere.

Hadn't thought about how much better Brady might make Sanders than Roethlisberger...interesting and hopeful

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I don't see Amendola as a great fit on the outside for the same reason I didn't like Welker or Hernandez lined up too wide. The biggest difference between inside vs outside is the amount of time the ball takes to travel to get to the outside. While Amendola may be faster than Welker, by NFL standards he isn't fast and I question if he would be able to sustain separation. On the inside its not an issue because he gets separation with his initial quickness and agility and the ball is to him quickly. On the outside CBs have time to close on him and make a play because while he may get initial separation I don't think he will be able to sustain it. This is why I think Hernandez becomes less effective the further he moves away from the line too.

Now that doesn't mean Amendola can't have some success on the outside, but that would require perfect timing and understanding with Brady to have the ball on him as soon as he is out of his breaks. This is risky, extremely difficult and puts a ton of pressure on Brady. I would prefer a bigger, legitimate outside WR that can sustain separation and offer a much bigger target to reduce the pressure on Brady. I also don't think we necessarily need a 'burner' to command the safeties attention on the outside. I also think we can do that with a bigger, more physical WR that commands that help over the top, not necessarily just through pure speed.