PatsFans.com Menu
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans

Report: Pats sign DT Tommy Kelly


Status
Not open for further replies.
They definitely aren't okay in terms of the future on any level, and it's certainly debatable as to whether or not we should be "satisfied" even going into this season.

With just 5 draft picks right now and 2 in the 7th do you think this move and maybe 1 veteran type move could bridge the gap to next years draft?

The way I see it we have Wilfork and Kelly here for 2013 and 2014 on their current contracts. So even no one in the Fortson, Deaderick, Love or Pryor group develop into a starting caliber DT we could take 2 DT next year and still have one season to play them behind Kelly and Wilfork. I'd also expect Wilfork to stick around thru 2015 and maybe 2016 as a rotational guy and mentor.

Imagine this guy as our 1st rounder next year? http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=124253&draftyear=2014&genpos=DT speculation is he runs a 5.1 40 time too.
 
You like Allen over Wheaton?


I like Allen over every receiver in this draft, and I'm not worried about the 40 time. I would be fine with Wheaton in the second but would take Hopkins or Patterson over him if it came down to that. And as much as i want a WR in the first I think Jamar Taylor (CB) may end up being a better player over his career than any of the receivers.

I basically see Wheaton as a larger version of Deion Branch, but that's not a slight as Branch was great for the patriots the first time around.
 
You like Allen over Wheaton?


As I said before, yes, but i have to admit that i have paid less attention to this draft than any i can remember. For some reason it has not caught my interest at all. It could be the lack of picks, it could be the lack of definition at the top, or it could be that i am just losing interest overall because ultimately it ends up as kind of an exercise in futility as we watch Belichick pass over all our binkies in favor of other players. I don't really care about the measurables that much and I'm finding that most of the "analysis" is pretty much bland regurgitation from people calling themselves experts but who really haven't watched them play other than some you-tube highlights. I may gain some interest as it gets closer but doubt i will ever pay the kind of attention to it again that i used to. On the other hand if they start to suck again at some point i may find it more useful than i currently do.
 
I watched Kelly a lot and Adrian Wilson very little the past couple years, but IMO Wilson has a much greater chance of being done than Kelly.FWIW

Your opinion so far has seemed pretty fair so I am not really arguing with your placing one over the other but I think both players should have something left to offer and BB has brought in players in the past much closer to the end of their career than these two.
Guys like Lynch and Holt who never played for us in the regular season come to mind. I think these two have specific roles and will be closer to starters in terms of Reps than to guys at the end that wont even make the roster. The end can come quick so you never know but these two IMO have a ton more left in the tank than say Lynch or Holt who wound up being on empty.
 
I like Allen over every receiver in this draft, and I'm not worried about the 40 time. I would be fine with Wheaton in the second but would take Hopkins or Patterson over him if it came down to that. And as much as i want a WR in the first I think Jamar Taylor (CB) may end up being a better player over his career than any of the receivers.

I basically see Wheaton as a larger version of Deion Branch, but that's not a slight as Branch was great for the patriots the first time around.

As I said before, yes, but i have to admit that i have paid less attention to this draft than any i can remember. For some reason it has not caught my interest at all. It could be the lack of picks, it could be the lack of definition at the top, or it could be that i am just losing interest overall because ultimately it ends up as kind of an exercise in futility as we watch Belichick pass over all our binkies in favor of other players. I don't really care about the measurables that much and I'm finding that most of the "analysis" is pretty much bland regurgitation from people calling themselves experts but who really haven't watched them play other than some you-tube highlights. I may gain some interest as it gets closer but doubt i will ever pay the kind of attention to it again that i used to. On the other hand if they start to suck again at some point i may find it more useful than i currently do.

You may want to have another look at Patterson. People complain about Hunter's route running but Patterson's is garbage. My binky receivers in order are: Hunter, Wheaton, Woods, and Rogers. I would put Austin up there but he's going to be long gone. Further, I don't think he's what this offense needs. I used to be a lot higher on Patterson before I heard, then watched, his route running. If he were to have any success in this offense, that route running would have to be a lot more crisp.
 
Folks, this thread is about Tommy Kelly being signed by the Pats.

At this point, please look to other threads for in depth discussions about possible WR or CB's in the draft. Also, hopefully the whole B2M thing has played out and this thread can just stay on the subject going forward.

Thanks.
 
I have no problem with the patriot's general policy of free agency: look for value in all the right places.

However, I suspect that you angst is almost all derivative from the decision to sign Amendola over Welker which had little to do with Walmart over Nordstrom. Not re-signing Lloyd comes closer. However, perhaps the team truly doesn't like his attitude and values him much, much less than he does.

I have no angst at all, at this point. I've written off what's been done as stubborn idiocy on the part of a head coach who, despite his general greatness, makes that same mistake time and again. It's a blind spot of his, and his owner's not strong enough to stop him from repeating the error, so it's something we'll probably continue to see as long as BB is here. Even the greats have problems, and this is one that BB can't seem to get over.

We can always point to our favorite free agent, who we may or may not have been able to sign at what he was signed for. However, I think that we did well on defense signing Talib, Arrington, Cole, Wilson and Kelley (and Armstead). And yes, I also want Abraham or Freeney in addition.

They've done essentially nothing but tread water, unless Kelly and Wilson rebound from what look like significant declines. I see no reason to pretend otherwise. They had millions to spend and decided to go on the cheap again. It's what they do in free agency. They'd rather gamble on 5 "d" players than 1-2 "a" players.

On offense I am less happy with the additions of Svikek, Washington, Amendola, Jones and Jenkins. However, the re-signing of Vollmer makes up for a lot.

Keeping your own players doesn't make up for anything.

The bottom line is that we had the big three. Vollmer and Talib were re-signed. And the team apparently chose Amendola over Welker. For now, we also have chose Jones and Jenkins over Branch and Edelman. I don't like this situation at all. Our options are very limited at this point. IMHO, the Front Office has already done a fine job at re-signing and filling holes at everywhere but flanker.

They screwed up the Welker situation, but that's not what I was posting about, and I don't want to rehash that, since it's a waste of time to do so around here. They chose to sign scrap heap players when they had money to make bigger impact signings. I hope it works this time. I expect that it won't, based strictly on the odds and recent history, and that the team will be in a position, for about the 7th or 8th time in 9 seasons, where it has to overcome the front office offseason FA/trade moves. Like the BB trade down policy, the BB sign scrap heap player policy works when it works, and it fails miserably when it doesn't.

Time will tell whether Tommy Kelly is more Derrick Burgess or Andre Carter, but this year had young players in the prime of their careers spring free, and this team passed on the opportunity to bring some of those in for relatively low money. I think it's legitimate to criticize that policy, just as it's legitimate to defend the "5 for 1" type of approach.
 
Don't waste your time. Brady2Moss never heard of the guy.
Well ive heard of him and was shocked to read he was un-drafted. He was/is a pretty good player.
 
It's just as overboard to actually insinuate that Haynesworth was only good for a few years and act like Kelly has been a dominant force since 05. You are trying to discredit Haynesworth who was once the best DT in the game to bump up Tommy Kelly a once solid player that had a few great years in his prime, but is now exiting or out of it.

B2M if I can offer a non confrontational outlook I feel that you may be setting much higher expectations for Kelly and Wilson than those who are happy with the moves. I view them as good signings because I feel Wilson is an upgrade over Chung and Kelly is an upgrade over Ron Brace those are the players that they've replaced from last years roster. I may agree with your stance is I was expecting them both to come in and be core defensive players who play 80% of the snaps but I don't believe that is case I think they both will play 45%-55% of the snaps and in that role I sincerely expect them to contribute.
 
Your opinion so far has seemed pretty fair so I am not really arguing with your placing one over the other but I think both players should have something left to offer and BB has brought in players in the past much closer to the end of their career than these two.
Guys like Lynch and Holt who never played for us in the regular season come to mind. I think these two have specific roles and will be closer to starters in terms of Reps than to guys at the end that wont even make the roster. The end can come quick so you never know but these two IMO have a ton more left in the tank than say Lynch or Holt who wound up being on empty.

I agree 100% with what you have to say. I think BB & Co. have specific plans in mind for both players. The only reason I even attempted to rank the 2 players was to respond B2M's post. He is right that Pats fans have to hope that Kelly and Wilson aren't done. I just disagree with all the rest of it. The reason I rank them the way I do was because, as I have said, I have watched Kelly quite a bit the past few years. He still looks good to me. (full disclosure I loved the Haynesworth trade) Admittedly, I have watched very little of Wilson, but the people I spoke with who are Cards fans, mention that Wilson was being substituted for on passing downs. I don't know how true that is or the reason(possible injury, etc?) but that does not seem like a good thing. In the past, Wilson was an unquestioned All-pro level (hall of fame even) defensive leader for the Cards. For him to be replaced on passing downs, doesn't seem to bode well but again there could be underlying reasons. In Kelly's case, I think I know why his stats (not a good judge of performance for a DL, IMO) dropped off and IMO it had less to do with his not being an effective player anymore than other reasons. I don't know what the situation is/was for Wilson. Hopefully it is some other reason than he is washed up. BB, who *****s more football knowledge than I have, obviously thinks both players have something in the tank. Hopefully he is correct as usual.
 
Patriots fans aren't being logically consistent when they talk about how they love the way BB works the free agency because he doesn't have to pay out big money, and then use the "this point in FA" as an excuse. The team could have spent money on the top FAs, but chose not to, which is why it's shopping at Walmart when it could have been shopping at Nordstroms. It's perfectly legitimate to criticize the signings they've made, IMO.

B2M is over the top, but the basic argument is a legitimate one.
Most Patriots fans have been logically consistent. Don't blame people because they are happy that the Patriots are filling positions of need with veterans. Spending more money doesn't mean spending wisely. Kelly has every opportunity to prove himself as a good acquisition or a poor one.

You really need to move on from marking the Patriots offseason down because they replaced Wes Welker with Danny Amendola.
 
Most Patriots fans have been logically consistent. Don't blame people because they are happy that the Patriots are filling positions of need with veterans. Spending more money doesn't mean spending wisely. Kelly has every opportunity to prove himself as a good acquisition or a poor one.

You really need to move on from marking the Patriots offseason down because they replaced Wes Welker with Danny Amendola.

Some people have a hard time with change. He is the leader of that pack. He wanted us to keep Welker till he was on his 5th hair transplant and ready for assisted living.
 
I like this signing. He didn't look done to me when I've watched him, and he was good enough in 2011 to be worth taking a shot. With him here, we're no longer totally reliant on Armstead panning out. If he does, awesome, but if he doesn't, it's not the end of the world. If it also means that Wilfork's snap count can get dialed down a bit, all the better.
 
Good post. Another FACT people seem to be ignoring is that we're a long, long way from the end of the roster-building process. Free agency is still playing out PLUS there's the draft/UDFA crop PLUS additional players becoming available from other teams during training camp. Lots more can happen, and probably will.

Naw......can't be...you mean...there's MORE time to go and more players to procure until the team convenes their preseason camp? ......then why all the violent ,vicious hatred for some player who plays a position the Pats are looking to bolster?...I mean, it's not like he's the ONLY player the Pats are going to bring in...they still have what....20 plus roster spots to STILL fill???

I must not be understanding some unbelievably important FACTS because I'm a life long Patriots fan (aka homer)...maybe I should just start ripping and tearing everything the Pats do with a vengeance, all day and all night at all hours...just long screeds of vile hatred for the Pats...oh wait....then I'd be a JETS fan, wouldn't I?????

Fuhgedddaboutit!...I'll stay a homer...and if you hater morons don't like it ...F...O...A...D....
 
Naw......can't be...you mean...there's MORE time to go and more players to procure until the team convenes their preseason camp? ......then why all the violent ,vicious hatred for some player who plays a position the Pats are looking to bolster?...I mean, it's not like he's the ONLY player the Pats are going to bring in...they still have what....20 plus roster spots to STILL fill???

I must not be understanding some unbelievably important FACTS because I'm a life long Patriots fan (aka homer)...maybe I should just start ripping and tearing everything the Pats do with a vengeance, all day and all night at all hours...just long screeds of vile hatred for the Pats...oh wait....then I'd be a JETS fan, wouldn't I?????

Fuhgedddaboutit!...I'll stay a homer...and if you hater morons don't like it ...F...O...A...D....

I'm wondering what the age of demarcation is for the "generation of immediate gratification" ... Would it be those 30 and under? Young people suck! :rocker:
 
Brady2Moss - Since I just started coming over here, I would like know exactly what are your issues with the team from a personnel stand point.

If you were the GM for one day, what would you do and why. I just walked into this conversation and would like to get your perspective.

Thanks in advance.

Only thing I would have done differently would have been to be more active in the corner market because there were tons of guys worth the 4 million/year given to Arrington and also guys that got cheap 1-2 year deals because of the market that could have worked here. DT maybe make a run at Desmond Bryant though he got a lot from Cleveland? (I believe he went there). Obviously you cannot get all these players there is a salary cap, but they had a lot of cap space and still do. I I don't mind these moves it is just frustrating to see these be the only answers to problems we've had the past few years, the sign 6 vets and hope some find 1 last good year for the price of 2 impact young guys has not worked recently as Deus stated. Loved bringing back Vollmer + Talib, but we are treading water. All of this probably becomes a mute point if Jones takes a JPP year 2 jump, but you can't depend on that there are positions that need to be solidified with more than a revolving door, bandaid type players.

Biggest issue I have is the failings of the FO/Scouting at drafting wrs and dbs for going on half a decade with dbs and a decade with wrs. Those failings have resulted in numerous wastes of top draft picks and glaring holes at those positions the last few years. When that happens you need to pay the piper in free agency, or you just live with the holes and try patching them up with JAGs. Doesn't hurt you in the regular season, but it does in the playoffs.

My only opinion of Kelly is that he has declined sharply and its a meh signing he may be ok or he may do nothing. Probably went too far to say he's a bum maybe I should've said JAG. Either way the team seems to be the same as it was last year, which means an injury to Gronkowski and they may be done again. Would have liked to have more impactful additions to the defense so that there is a D to fall back on if the O struggles.

Anyway I just wanted to respond to you, done talking about other positions like Shmessy said its about Kelly. I think he's going to be nothing special, but I'll gladly enjoy being wrong if he can help with our anemic pass rush.
 
I like this signing. He didn't look done to me when I've watched him, and he was good enough in 2011 to be worth taking a shot. With him here, we're no longer totally reliant on Armstead panning out. If he does, awesome, but if he doesn't, it's not the end of the world. If it also means that Wilfork's snap count can get dialed down a bit, all the better.

I think we're going to be strongly considering a higher round draft pick at the DL position too, especially with Ninkovich, Pryor, Love, Deaderick, and Cunningham all due to hit the FA market at the end of the season. There's just no way we can be done at this position yet. I think there's an excellent possibility for at least one more veteran signing (maybe it's the passrushing choice that we all want), and a draft pick in the high-to-mid round type.

We just need more of everything at the position, maybe not at the moment as much as the future of next yr and beyond, but Belichick typically restocks positions a year early anyway, and it's not like there were a ton of needs on the team in the first place. In my opinion WR and DL are still issues moving forward--definitely for the future still.

I'd like a 1st round tradedown to accumulate another 2nd rounder and a 4th rounder. That would give us the following at the very least:

2a--WR
2b--Trenches DL/OL
3--BPA and/or secondary
4--WR
7a--bonus
7b--bonus

That's be a pretty nice haul in my opinion, and would essentially fill all of our needs not only now but more importantly for the future (WR/CB/DL/OL) and BPA bonuses.
 
My only opinion of Kelly is that he has declined sharply and its a meh signing he may be ok or he may do nothing. Probably went too far to say he's a bum maybe I should've said JAG. Either way the team seems to be the same as it was last year, which means an injury to Gronkowski and they may be done again. Would have liked to have more impactful additions to the defense so that there is a D to fall back on if the O struggles.

B2M, I understand your opinion is based on TK's 2011 vs 2012 comparison. Certainly your opinion of TK for 2013 may end up correct. However, there are alternate and reasonable explanations for the down 2012 year in lieu of "he has declined sharply": Nagging injury he played through, Raiders were an appallingly awful team/organization in 2012, new coach-new scheme-inappropriate use of TK. This is not to say, again, you are wrong because his 'down' sample is only one season. With only one season as the sample we all will have to wait and see what transpires in 2013 before an educated judgment can be made.
With insufficient data to know a likely conclusion, I choose to take an optimistic view based mostly on my hope that it all works out. You on the other hand choose to take the more pessimistic view. Nothing is really left to say other than we will know the 'score' in December. If you prove to be right then you earned your stripes on this one considering you stayed the course no matter the counter argument.
 
Patriots fans aren't being logically consistent when they talk about how they love the way BB works the free agency because he doesn't have to pay out big money, and then use the "this point in FA" as an excuse. The team could have spent money on the top FAs, but chose not to, which is why it's shopping at Walmart when it could have been shopping at Nordstroms. It's perfectly legitimate to criticize the signings they've made, IMO.

B2M is over the top, but the basic argument is a legitimate one.

I think the problem everybody had with the argument b2m raised was he called the guy a bum within two sentences of his post. I think we can all agree this signing might not work out and that's pretty much the deal with all FA signings.

The guy has all pro talent and all pro production in his very recent past. Why not be optimistic?
 
Patriots fans aren't being logically consistent when they talk about how they love the way BB works the free agency because he doesn't have to pay out big money, and then use the "this point in FA" as an excuse. The team could have spent money on the top FAs, but chose not to, which is why it's shopping at Walmart when it could have been shopping at Nordstroms. It's perfectly legitimate to criticize the signings they've made, IMO.

B2M is over the top, but the basic argument is a legitimate one.

I love the walmart analogy, however, I disagree with your implied conclusions. If you have a limited budget, lets say $200 to spend, would you rather buy one shirt at Nordstroms or 2 shirts, 2 pairs of pants, a jacket and socks from walmart?

The shirt from Nordstroms might be a bit more fashionable, but it doesn't keep your ass warm when its cold, and if you spill mustard on it you have an expensive rag and nothing else to show for it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.


Tuesday Patriots Notebook 4/23: News and Notes
MORSE: Final 7 Round Patriots Mock Draft, Matthew Slater News
Bruschi’s Proudest Moment: Former LB Speaks to MusketFire’s Marshall in Recent Interview
Monday Patriots Notebook 4/22: News and Notes
Patriots News 4-21, Kraft-Belichick, A.J. Brown Trade?
MORSE: Patriots Draft Needs and Draft Related Info
Friday Patriots Notebook 4/19: News and Notes
TRANSCRIPT: Eliot Wolf’s Pre-Draft Press Conference 4/18/24
Thursday Patriots Notebook 4/18: News and Notes
Wednesday Patriots Notebook 4/17: News and Notes
Back
Top