Report: Pats sign DT Tommy Kelly

Deus Irae said:

Patriots fans aren't being logically consistent when they talk about how they love the way BB works the free agency because he doesn't have to pay out big money, and then use the "this point in FA" as an excuse. The team could have spent money on the top FAs, but chose not to, which is why it's shopping at Walmart when it could have been shopping at Nordstroms. It's perfectly legitimate to criticize the signings they've made, IMO.

B2M is over the top, but the basic argument is a legitimate one.

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Maybe I get a bit over the top, but it's mostly because I see over the top statements going the other way that Kelly is going to turn it on and make us have dominating interior line.

You've summarized my point exactly and I thank you for actually realizing what my point was. This year especially they should have been more aggressive early on because they could have gotten very good players at discounted rates due to the down market this year. There is nothing that can be done now, but hope that Kelly and Wilson aren't done otherwise we will have problems again on defense.

Brady2Moss said:

Maybe I get a bit over the top, but it's mostly because I see over the top statements going the other way that Kelly is going to turn it on and make us have dominating interior line.

You've summarized my point exactly and I thank you for actually realizing what my point was. This year especially they should have been more aggressive early on because they could have gotten very good players at discounted rates due to the down market this year. There is nothing that can be done now, but hope that Kelly and Wilson aren't done otherwise we will have problems again on defense.

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I watched Kelly a lot and Adrian Wilson very little the past couple years, but IMO Wilson has a much greater chance of being done than Kelly.FWIW

Deus Irae said:

Patriots fans aren't being logically consistent when they talk about how they love the way BB works the free agency because he doesn't have to pay out big money, and then use the "this point in FA" as an excuse. The team could have spent money on the top FAs, but chose not to, which is why it's shopping at Walmart when it could have been shopping at Nordstroms. It's perfectly legitimate to criticize the signings they've made, IMO.

B2M is over the top, but the basic argument is a legitimate one.

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I have no problem with them shopping at Walmart over Nordstroms. Big ticket free agents don't seem to have a significantly better a success rate than the bargain basement ones. For too many marquee free agents turn into busts or at leas disappointments on their new team. Would rather try to get three Andre Carters than on Mario Williams.

In this particular free agent market, you can argue that there were some marquee guys who went at value prices like Cliff Avril. But I have had little problem with the Pats' strategy in the past. The teams who follow this strategy tend to be consistent Super Bowl contenders like the Pats, Steelers, Giants, etc.

Even relatively successful big name free agents like Julius Peppers do not come close to living up to their contract and their contract hinder what a team can do in other areas (for example the Bears' o-line is in shambles every year).

Yep - probably one of the more overrated scouting services around. I prefer NFL Draft Scout. Those guys have been around back to the days of Bill Walsh and know a lot more than what Pro Football Focus has been providing. Between them, Ourlads and Scouts, Inc., those three resources would be my recommendation for 3rd party services.

BradyManny said:

If people are concerned about this signing b/c ProFootballFocus said he was the 75th best defensive tackle last season, don't be. ProFootballFocus is probably the 75th best football site run by amateur scouts who have day jobs and no prior experience scouting athletics.

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belicheck010405 said:

Yep - probably one of the more overrated scouting services around. I prefer NFL Draft Scout. Those guys have been around back to the days of Bill Walsh and know a lot more than what Pro Football Focus has been providing. Between them, Ourlads and Scouts, Inc., those three resources would be my recommendation for 3rd party services.

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PFF is pure garbage. I agree that Draft Scout, Ourlad's, and scouts Inc. are the better sites. I also think the efforts by various sites to create sabermetrics for football are pretty much a complete waste of time, they remove context to the point of making their "statistical analysis" worthless.

Brady2Moss - Since I just started coming over here, I would like know exactly what are your issues with the team from a personnel stand point.

If you were the GM for one day, what would you do and why. I just walked into this conversation and would like to get your perspective.

Thanks in advance.

Brady2Moss said:

What does my post have to do with the signings of 2011? Funny how all your examples are from two years ago. Anyway your ignorance is hilarious given that I made a post detailing the good and bad "over the hill" signings and mentioned Carter and Waters as good ones. I did not include Anderson because he was still young when we signed him.

Anyway your agenda is clear that you do not even read the posts I make before trying to discredit me, don't read them that's fine but do not presume to tell me what I do and do not ignore.

Actually it doesn't suck because I don't go insane when they lose in the big games in the same way they always do because it is fairly easy to see coming every year. Sorry that I've grown weary of these moves after years of seeing the same holes in the squad, I used to set unrealistic expectations like most here (Wow Ocho is going to be amazing going from Palmer to Brady! Haynesworth will be a beast when he gets his head out of his ass!, etc.).

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SteveKiner said:

I watched Kelly a lot and Adrian Wilson very little the past couple years, but IMO Wilson has a much greater chance of being done than Kelly.FWIW

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Yeah, I am lukewarm on the Wilson signing. I do think the Kelly signing has the potential to be one of the better free agent signings of the offseason. Might not be, but I ain't ready to write the guy off after one bad season where there are potential factors that affected that season outside of Kelly's age or motivation.

I have no problem with the patriot's general policy of free agency: look for value in all the right places.

However, I suspect that you angst is almost all derivative from the decision to sign Amendola over Welker which had little to do with Walmart over Nordstrom. Not re-signing Lloyd comes closer. However, perhaps the team truly doesn't like his attitude and values him much, much less than he does.

We can always point to our favorite free agent, who we may or may not have been able to sign at what he was signed for. However, I think that we did well on defense signing Talib, Arrington, Cole, Wilson and Kelley (and Armstead). And yes, I also want Abraham or Freeney in addition.

On offense I am less happy with the additions of Svikek, Washington, Amendola, Jones and Jenkins. However, the re-signing of Vollmer makes up for a lot.
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The bottom line is that we had the big three. Vollmer and Talib were re-signed. And the team apparently chose Amendola over Welker. For now, we also have chose Jones and Jenkins over Branch and Edelman. I don't like this situation at all. Our options are very limited at this point. IMHO, the Front Office has already done a fine job at re-signing and filling holes at everywhere but flanker.

Deus Irae said:

Patriots fans aren't being logically consistent when they talk about how they love the way BB works the free agency because he doesn't have to pay out big money, and then use the "this point in FA" as an excuse. The team could have spent money on the top FAs, but chose not to, which is why it's shopping at Walmart when it could have been shopping at Nordstroms. It's perfectly legitimate to criticize the signings they've made, IMO.

B2M is over the top, but the basic argument is a legitimate one.

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Brady2Moss said:

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This year especially they should have been more aggressive early on because they could have gotten very good players at discounted rates due to the down market this year. There is nothing that can be done now, but hope that Kelly and Wilson aren't done otherwise we will have problems again on defense.

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I feel the same way, BB should know the year's market better than most and seize the opportunity. Yet I also feel that guys like Wallace, Dumervile and Reed were too expensive. Were Elvis and Wallace more complete players they'd would be worth the $. Were Reed younger...

I just hope that BBs attempt to use the law of averages to score on 1 or 2 lower tier FAs pans out. There were lots of misses in recent seasons.

Draft a WR, BB.

Rob0729 said:

Yeah, I am lukewarm on the Wilson signing. I do think the Kelly signing has the potential to be one of the better free agent signings of the offseason. Might not be, but I ain't ready to write the guy off after one bad season where there are potential factors that affected that season outside of Kelly's age or motivation.

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I was lukewarm on the Wilson signing initially but reconsidered because i believe he was also brought in as a situational player and Belichick will get the most out of him. I don't see him as a 3 down player but believe he can provide leadership for the young backfield and will instill fear in opposing receivers who want to come over the middle. he's a piece and i think this is similar to the earlier years of the Belichick era when he brought in Pleasant and Phifer as veteran leaders and found vital roles for them and created a winning culture for each of the units. They aren't making the big splashes but overall i like the players they are bringing in for the intangibles they bring to this team.

Originally Posted by Brady2Moss
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This year especially they should have been more aggressive early on because they could have gotten very good players at discounted rates due to the down market this year. There is nothing that can be done now, but hope that Kelly and Wilson aren't done otherwise we will have problems again on defense.


Be specific please. Which player(s) who signed at a discounted rate should have the Patriots gone after?

Brady_to_Moss said:

speaking of the DL..whatever happened to abraham and freeney

not sure he will make the team...see if he has anything left after TC.

We still need a DE who can rush the passer and not just jones...

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Well they still have Cunningham, Bequette, Ninkovich and Armstead. Hopefully they draft another DE in the draft and bring in another FA to add depth and competition there.

Marqui said:

This is a no-brainer signing. Kelly is the starting impact DT this team desperatly needed next to Wilfork, and at a value price too. Woohoo!

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I doubt he'll be a starter, much less an impact starter. I do think he will be a very solid rotational guy though that comes in and plays maybe 40% or so of defensive snaps, which is terrific and is something the team needs.

Brady2Moss said:

Wish I could like this 100x. Everyone here is acting like we got Rodney Harrison 2.0 in Adrian Wilson and Tommy Kelly in his prime because he was just not trying in Oakland and will get it together with us! We're magical. Just like Lloyd was going to have a ton of yards and tds because man he's going from Orton to Brady.

Notice how all these homers are the ones lambasting Lloyd thread after thread because he didn't meet their rose-colored expectations. Remember when Haynesworth was going to get his head on straight because he was playing for BB and a contender! Me too!




What a worthless post, you bring nothing to the table besides adding to the chorus of homer brigadiers attacking all that oppose them.

And to the guy saying people that disagree think they're smarter than BB, no one said that they just don't agree with his moves. Better to actually try to form an opinion then join in the Kumbaya sing along that goes on here every offseason about how BB is infallible.

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"Everyone" is quite a generalization.

I Wasn't that big on the 34 year old Adrian Wilson signing until I read some posts here and watched some video on him. It will be nice to have a solid veteran SS that can match up well against TEs and enforce the middle of the field, but I certainly don't expect very much from a guy who is 34 years old. Rodney Harrison was a lot younger than that when we brought him in, but 34 years old on a 3 year deal??? (Im sure its really a 2 year deal.. but still... 34 years old?) Its alright though, our secondary is very young, so having a guy like Wilson will definitely help just from a leadership stand point... I'm not sure how much he'll be able to actually contribute as a full time starter, but his leadership will be welcomed.

They should sign Edelman, Danario Alexander or Laurent Robinson before wasting a draft pick on someone like Justin Hunter (drops) or Da'Rick Rogers (attitude). There are still some options in free agency at wide receiver.

I think that Laurent Robinson, as long as he still has game, would be a very good fit. And, I am not giving up on hope with Brandon Lloyd either.

PatsWickedPissah said:

I feel the same way, BB should know the year's market better than most and seize the opportunity. Yet I also feel that guys like Wallace, Dumervile and Reed were too expensive. Were Elvis and Wallace more complete players they'd would be worth the $. Were Reed younger...

I just hope that BBs attempt to use the law of averages to score on 1 or 2 lower tier FAs pans out. There were lots of misses in recent seasons.

Draft a WR, BB.

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belicheck010405 said:

They should sign Edelman, Danario Alexander or Laurent Robinson before wasting a draft pick on someone like Justin Hunter (drops) or Da'Rick Rogers (attitude). There are still some options in free agency at wide receiver.

I think that Laurent Robinson, as long as he still has game, would be a very good fit. And, I am not giving up on hope with Brandon Lloyd either.

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It's OT but Keenan Allen is probably going to fall into range for the Patriots to have a shot at him, and if he's available then I would rate him with Jamar Taylor CB Boise State as the best picks available for them late in the first. I would be happy with either. I would agree that a veteran WR signing, along with Edelman would also be what's needed to get the WR unit where it needs to be, although i don't want Lloyd back at this point, time to move on from him.

Ivan said:

It's OT but Keenan Allen is probably going to fall into range for the Patriots to have a shot at him, and if he's available then I would rate him with Jamar Taylor CB Boise State as the best picks available for them late in the first. I would be happy with either. I would agree that a veteran WR signing, along with Edelman would also be what's needed to get the WR unit where it needs to be, although i don't want Lloyd back at this point, time to move on from him.

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I'd like Edes re-signed. Can't think of a vet WR worth signing except Sanders and I defer to those who've watched him enough to opine. Draft a WR.

Deus Irae said:

Patriots fans aren't being logically consistent when they talk about how they love the way BB works the free agency because he doesn't have to pay out big money, and then use the "this point in FA" as an excuse. The team could have spent money on the top FAs, but chose not to, which is why it's shopping at Walmart when it could have been shopping at Nordstroms. It's perfectly legitimate to criticize the signings they've made, IMO.

B2M is over the top, but the basic argument is a legitimate one.

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Since you quoted me. ..Am not sure about the first part of your statement since it's irrelevant to what the discussion was about. So B2M called the player a bum and didn't like the move. Problem with that is that as it stands you either add a veteran who is the best to be had at this point in time or you add no one. Given the 2 options I would rather sign the veteran player in question. The odds are in your favor with a veteran player like him than without.

I understand you would like to expand the discussion to pats not being players at the start of FA with more expensive and better players and how you and B2M and many more am sure don't approve of that approach. That is fine problem with that is that I was addressing the acquisition of the player in question (Thread title: Pats sign DT Tommy Kelly) not the pats general approach.

mgteich said:

Or perhaps the coaches will allow camp and free season to mold their opinions of who is best suited for the final roster.

Also, Forston and Pryor are also in the mix, certainly more than Vega.

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Marcus Benard could be a tremendous pick up. He was one up the top upcoming pass rush specialist just a few years ago, if he can get his career back on track he could show up and have a season like Mark Anderson had in 2011. Unless he lost something he has more talent than Scott and Anderson combined.

Vega is a OLB in a 4-3 or 3-4 with pass rushing ability I see him as competing to backup Hightower and maybe seeing some pass rushing opportunities in dime fronts with 3 or 4 DE/OLB at the line.

Ivan said:

It's OT but Keenan Allen is probably going to fall into range for the Patriots to have a shot at him, and if he's available then I would rate him with Jamar Taylor CB Boise State as the best picks available for them late in the first. I would be happy with either. I would agree that a veteran WR signing, along with Edelman would also be what's needed to get the WR unit where it needs to be, although i don't want Lloyd back at this point, time to move on from him.

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You like Allen over Wheaton?