Cap Update

BlueThunder · Mar 16, 2013

Glad to see Miguel back.

Hope all is well with you :rocker:

Miguel · Mar 16, 2013

ctpatsfan77 said:
It doesn't work that way.

If the seventh-rounders have cap hits of $400K each, and the #50 and #51 players are $500K each, then the seventh-rounders simply never go onto the cap (at least not right away). So there's no cap savings from them, but there's no additional cap hit, either.

FYI - Their prorated signing bonus amount (however small) do go onto the cap

Big Bucks · Mar 16, 2013

Washington and Jones numbers released

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-...4741141/contract-details-for-washington-jones

Leon Washington

Maximum value: One-year, $1.2 million
Signing bonus: $360,000

2013
Base salary: $840,000 (non-guaranteed)
Cap charge: $1.2 million

Donald Jones

Maximum value: Three-years, $4.155 million
Signing bonus: 0

2013
Base salary: $630,000 (non-guaranteed)
Reporting bonus: $200,000
Roster bonus: $235,000
Incentives/other terms: $125,000
Cap charge: $1.19 million

2014
Base salary: $730,000 (non-guaranteed)
Reporting bonus: $200,000
Roster bonus: $235,000
Incentives/other terms: $250,000
Cap charge: $1.415 million

2015
Base salary: $745,000 (non-guaranteed)
Reporting bonus: $200,000
Roster bonus: $235,000
Incentives/other charges: $375,000
Cap charge: $1.55 million

Urgent · Mar 16, 2013

Patriots should have in the range of $12mm still to play with.
Need two WR's, a RT, a DE and a CB.

DarMan · Mar 16, 2013

scott99 said:
I have a 142 IQ, and I haven't a clue in hell what you mean.

Then your IQ isn't 142 - you may want a recount

Shockt327 · Mar 16, 2013

Last updated on March 16, 2013 1:35 PM EST

According to my figures the Patriots' 2013 cap figure is for $103,518,635 with 59 (57 active, 0 on Injured Reserve, 2 on Reserve/Non-NFI) players. I now believe that reserver players like Brian Waters and Tony Fiammetta do not count against the cap. I have the Patriots' 2013 dead money at $6,644,196. $103,518,635 + $6,644,196 = $110,162,831. The cap limit for the 2013 season is $123 million. The Patriots' adjusted cap number is $128,607,914. Therefore, I have the Patriots under their adjusted cap limit by about $18.4 million. When Tom Pelissero reported that the Patriots are under their adjusted cap number by $26.4 million my numbers were off by 900K so I believe that the Patriots are actually under their adjusted cap figure by around $19.3 million. My numbers do NOT include the cap effects of the Wilson, Washington, and Donald Jones signings.

ctpatsfan77 · Mar 16, 2013

Miguel said:
FYI - Their prorated signing bonus amount (however small) do go onto the cap

Yeah, that's right. I forgot about that part, but then it's <$20K each.

Miguel · Mar 16, 2013

According to my figures the Patriots' 2013 cap figure is for $105,023,635 with 63 (61 active, 0 on Injured Reserve, 2 on Reserve/Non-NFI) players. I now believe that reserve players like Brian Waters and Tony Fiammetta do not count against the cap. I have the Patriots' 2013 dead money at $6,644,196. $105,023,635 + $6,644,196 = $111,667,831. The cap limit for the 2013 season is $123 million. The Patriots' adjusted cap number is $128,607,914. Therefore, I have the Patriots under their adjusted cap limit by about $16.9 million. When Tom Pelissero reported that the Patriots are under their adjusted cap number by $26.4 million my numbers were off by 900K so I believe that the Patriots are actually under their adjusted cap figure by around $17.8 million. My numbers do NOT include the cap effects of the Adrian Wilson and Kyle Arrington signings.

yopats · Mar 16, 2013

Re: Re: Cap Update

Miguel said:
According to my figures the Patriots' 2013 cap figure is for $105,023,635 with 63 (61 active, 0 on Injured Reserve, 2 on Reserve/Non-NFI) players. I now believe that reserve players like Brian Waters and Tony Fiammetta do not count against the cap. I have the Patriots' 2013 dead money at $6,644,196. $105,023,635 + $6,644,196 = $111,667,831. The cap limit for the 2013 season is $123 million. The Patriots' adjusted cap number is $128,607,914. Therefore, I have the Patriots under their adjusted cap limit by about $16.9 million. When Tom Pelissero reported that the Patriots are under their adjusted cap number by $26.4 million my numbers were off by 900K so I believe that the Patriots are actually under their adjusted cap figure by around $17.8 million. My numbers do NOT include the cap effects of the Adrian Wilson and Kyle Arrington signings.

Great stuff..so when we get Fanene's money back thats another $2.5 million.

I would expect about $5-6 million for Wilson and Arrington..maybe less if Wilson came here cheap.

Shockt327 · Mar 16, 2013

Miguel said:
According to my figures the Patriots' 2013 cap figure is for $105,023,635 with 63 (61 active, 0 on Injured Reserve, 2 on Reserve/Non-NFI) players. I now believe that reserve players like Brian Waters and Tony Fiammetta do not count against the cap. I have the Patriots' 2013 dead money at $6,644,196. $105,023,635 + $6,644,196 = $111,667,831. The cap limit for the 2013 season is $123 million. The Patriots' adjusted cap number is $128,607,914. Therefore, I have the Patriots under their adjusted cap limit by about $16.9 million. When Tom Pelissero reported that the Patriots are under their adjusted cap number by $26.4 million my numbers were off by 900K so I believe that the Patriots are actually under their adjusted cap figure by around $17.8 million. My numbers do NOT include the cap effects of the Adrian Wilson and Kyle Arrington signings.

Nice update Miguel!

BTW - Why is Brandon Bolden listed twice on your sheet? Cut and re signed?

Code:

Mike Rivera	2013	$480,000	$10,000
[U]Brandon Bolden[/U]	2014	$480,000	$5,000
Markus Zusevics	2014	$480,000	$4,333
Justin Francis	2014	$480,000	$2,333
[U]Brandon Bolden[/U]	2014	$480,000	$5,000

Miguel · Mar 16, 2013

Shockt327 said:
BTW - Why is Brandon Bolden listed twice on your sheet? Cut and re signed?

A mistake. The second instance is for Brad Herman.

TruthSeeker · Mar 17, 2013

DarMan said:
Then your IQ isn't 142 - you may want a recount

Maybe it's 72, I forget.

yopats · Mar 17, 2013

Re: Re: Cap Update

Miguel said:
A mistake. The second instance is for Brad Herman.

Was Brandon Lloyd's cut factored in?

patfanken · Mar 17, 2013

I so often come to threads about the cap looking for clarity, and wind up more confused than when I showed up.

. For the uninitiated can I safely assume that as of the moment, counting what we can estimate about the Wilson, Jones, and Kudivedes deals that the Pats are approximately $15MM under the cap? Can I just get a yes or no answer to that?

Miguel, great to have you back. As a named helper of your original work (though for the life of me I can't remember or image what I contributed

), let me say we've missed your contributions...and not just about the cap. I'm sure Jason will be happy to know that he no longer has to do all the "heavy lifting".

I think that number is more than enough money to get Volmer back on a contract that averages about $7MM/yr with the kind of health protection we saw in DA's contract, and comes in with a cap cost this season at about $4-5MM

It will leave us more than enough money to add a least one significant WR addition, like Sanders or DHB, plus Edelman and/or Lloyd.....and STILL Leave us with enough money to sign a plethora of low level FA's, with little notoriety, of which one or two will surprise us by becoming contributors.

Bottom line - Draft?.....DRAFT? (now assuming the Mexican accent) I don't care about no stinkin' Draft! (for this season

)

Miguel · Mar 17, 2013

yopats said:
Was Brandon Lloyd's cut factored in?

Yes, his release was the reason why the Patriots' dead money jumped from $4.6 million to $6.6 million.

DefenseRules · Mar 17, 2013

Miguel said:
Yes, his release was the reason why the Patriots' dead money jumped from $4.6 million to $6.6 million.

Welcome back Miguel. We missed you, and thanks for the info.

PatsFaninAZ · Mar 17, 2013

patfanken said:
I so often come to threads about the cap looking for clarity, and wind up more confused than when I showed up. . For the uninitiated can I safely assume that as of the moment, counting what we can estimate about the Wilson, Jones, and Kudivedes deals that the Pats are approximately $15MM under the cap? Can I just get a yes or no answer to that?

If it has to be yes or no, then no.

We do not need to estimate Jones. We have the information. The three signings that, to my understanding, we have to estimate are Arrington, Wilson, and Koutouvides.

Miguel has us as 17.9 million under without those three. Accordingly, the answer to your question would be yes only if we estimated the cap hit in 2013 for those three players to be 2.9 million. It will be more than that. The annual amount of Arrington's contract is reported to be $4 million. Even if he gets a large bonus, it's going to be a cap hit of at least 2.5 million I think. Wilson will probably also be in the 2 million range. Koutouvides will cost something. Even if you figure these players net cap hits because of cuts, it's going to be more than 2.9 million. I'm going to guess, unless the Arrington contract comes in with severely deferred cap hits due to a bonus, that the Patriots are around $13.5 million or so.

It's interesting we don't have details yet on the Wilson or Arrington contacts. The others came to light within a day or so.

patfanken · Mar 17, 2013

Thanks AZ. So we are likely at $13.5 (plus or minus $1MM) AND still have the possibility of getting as much as another $2MM from the Fenene arbitration, and still significantly more from possible restructures to Mankins and Wilfolk if needed.

Good. That's a lot of room, but there is still a lot to do. Adding Volmer, Edelman, and Abraham should not break that bank, and keep us from drafting for any immediate need.

Just a note on the impact of an improved secondary that I wonder if people get. An improved and effective secondary allows the rest of the defense to play more aggressively. ie blitz and stunt more. Any defense that blitzes and stunts more will produce more pressure on the QB. If the secondary holds up, its effective, if they don't it won't be. The past few years BB knew that the secondary wouldn't hold up and only blitzed around 10-15%, about half the league average, while some teams do it as much as 50%

I think that by just being aggressive at just the league average, this team, with the same personnel up front would create more pressure. NOW if you finally add a DB who can effectively blitz, and other proven rusher, and a 2nd year bounce from Hightower and Jones, and it gets better still.

I'm getting very excited about this group, so here's a conservative prediction in the short run. A top 12 defense in total yds. A top 15 defense in passing yds. A top 10 defense in scoring. And if we have some good luck health-wise, I'd bet it will be better

eom · Mar 17, 2013

this is pretty much in the realm of nitpicking , and it may just confuse things further, but 15m would be my current guesstimate --- so, yes.

Miguel said:
Therefore, I have the Patriots under their adjusted cap limit by about $16.9 million. When Tom Pelissero reported that the Patriots are under their adjusted cap number by $26.4 million my numbers were off by 900K so I believe that the Patriots are actually under their adjusted cap figure by around $17.8 million. My numbers do NOT include the cap effects of the Adrian Wilson and Kyle Arrington signings.

this is how the popular peoples' party interprets the writings:
I could see arrington at 3m - 500k for replacing the 51st guy = 2.5m
that puts us at around 15m
wilson is an older guy, so I suspect the 3 yr deal is to hide cap in the form of a roster bonus(?), which leads me to believe the cap figure might only be 2-3 m (-500k for replacing 51st guy).
I thought I had read somewhere around here that we still have 2.5m coming from fanene, which cancels out wilson's figure, but maybe fanene is already cooked in.

bottomline - just wait and see what happens

Dragda · Mar 17, 2013

@patscap:
My guesstimate is that the Pats are under their adjusted cap number by $17.8 million before accounting for Arrington and Wilson.

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