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Felger and Reiss go at it over Welker


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This is almost all on the agents. They overrated Welker's value and, by the time Welker realised and came back to us, Amendola was already in the building.

That's his fault.
 
Felger is becoming the new contrarian, trying to replace Borges as the the chief hater...

Felger feeds the uninformed and hysterical..
 
Random question:
If the Patriots believed he was worth 2/10 after he had a year in which he played as well as could be hoped for and one in which they decided to pay him 9.5m.

So why not let him hit free agency last year, offer 3 / 18, and allowed him to shop around and either ended up cutting him (since 9.5 is more than they value a slot) or have had him sign at a decent rate (since 6 is what they value a slot)

Curran says they wanted 4 years 32 million last year.
 
What also leads credence to your synopsis is that isn't that exactly what Bob Kraft has been saying ... that it takes 2 intelligent sides? Kraft told us the bad way it would happen before it actually did.

Yes he did, he called it. There is the assumption that, after 2 years of this, the small difference between what he got from Denver and the pts offer could have been smoothed over, but not the difference between the 3 years 24 demand.
 
To be fair, did anyone think Welker was only going to get 6 mill a year?

Apparently, the Patriots. Agents are paid to know these things and represent the best scenario to their clients, not bow smoke up their butt.

Without numbers, I actually predicted that Welker would be worh more to us than other teams and his market value, based on his age, size etc. would be less than people thought. Of course some people will pay for past production more than anticipated future production, but not the smart ones.
 
I listened live and I thought Reiss had poor arguments, avoided directly answering questions, and had difficulty connecting the dots on a complicated subject.

For instance, his story two weeks ago on how both parties wanted the same thing and how there was optimism to get a deal done ....complete homer bunk.
What we know now....according to Reiss, the WW camp was asking for 3/$24 all along but either the Pats didn't have an offer on the table (reporters reporting the NEP hadn't submitted their first offer until the final day of tampering) or according to Reiss (again on the 3rd tampering day) that an offer was on the table and we learn after the fact it was 2/$10 plus incentives. Using this knowledge, Reiss writes there's "optmism" ???? Sorry .....1 year and $14 mill apart. You don't write such a story when the facts don't support the argument. Clearly he was being fed some crap and he bit. A few days later, Bob Kraft rolls out his "I love WW and Patriot for Like" schtick.......Starting to sound familiar????

Reiss continues to defend his team friendly defense claiming the 2/$10 ++ was essentially the same deal Denver was offering....So Maz asks....So why did he choose Denver Mike R.? You wrote both teams were optimistic, both teams wanted it done, Welker wanted to work with Brady. If it is essentially the same money, what happened. Reiss defended with the timing issue which I buy, some what.

No doubt Felger is brash....but the guy was imbedded in Foxboro for a dozen years and knows how the team operates the back channels to get info out into the public by exerting their influence over reporters. Everyone scratching everyone's back. Listen, I love Reiss and appreciate the volume of info he pumps out. I will never say he fabricates, but lets be honest, he is always looking for filler and he bit on the "both sides are optimistic" narrative that he was fed at a time when the fan base was getting antsy that WW hadn't been resigned. As I wrote in a post last week, no agent EVER limits his clients options. On this point alone, it is clear to me the Reiss "optimistic" story did NOT come from WW's camp. No legitimate agent makes concessions in the press...and confirming your optimistic and hopeful is a sign of weakness.

Reiss's greatest asset is his work ethic and organization. But he's the play by play guy, not the analyst.

The funny thing about the Felger interrogation is that four days before this blew up, I sent Reiss a question referencing how I felt his pro team bent was becoming a bit too transparent, citing his "optimistic" story. My point was similar to what I wrote above...no agent would offer the "optimistic" impression, only a team would. Looks like Felger and I agree....scary.

PS...that was great radio....that was real interaction and I loved the intensity from both. After the fact, both Felger and Mas and Gasper all went above and beyond expressing their deepest admiration for Reiss....likely realizing they crossed the imaginary boundary of criticizing a fellow media guy, especially one held in such high esteem by so many. Still....it was honest conflict for a change which was refreshing. Give me someone that wears their emotions on their sleeves anytime over the controlled crap "professional" media lifers spew out.
 
Mazz reminds me of the little snot nose kid yelling insults to the big kids on the other side of a big fence.
 
Apparently, the Patriots. Agents are paid to know these things and represent the best scenario to their clients, not bow smoke up their butt.

Without numbers, I actually predicted that Welker would be worh more to us than other teams and his market value, based on his age, size etc. would be less than people thought. Of course some people will pay for past production more than anticipated future production, but not the smart ones.

Clearly the Patriots agreed with you.
 
sorry about he merged screw up on this thread. Can't unmerge once it has been merged.

My Bad!:bricks:

PLEASE CHECK THE BOARD BEFORE STARTING THREADS ON THE SAME SUBJECT
 
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$2 million more guaranteed. A million here, a million there, and pretty soon you're talking about real money.

It was assumed that Welker would have hit at least 2mill of the 6 mill in incentives making them both 12mil
 
what kills me is who cares about any of this soap opera stuff. are they whining about who said what, in st louis, over amendola ?
 
Clearly the Patriots agreed with you.

Not only the Patriots, but the Broncos and 30 other NFL teams.

Welker is a $6 mill/yr man at this point in his career. It is what it is. The Pats and every NFL team knew it, but Wes and his agents were (obviously) the only parties ignorant to the market.
 
At least no one is resorting to blaming a fax machine...

We can go back and forth but the bottom line is that Welker's agent misread the market.

It's natural to want to assign blame but it's also clear both sides were all-in on this hand, and both sides were willing to walk away from each other. Both sides took that risk, and in the end, that's exactly what happened.

If the Pats were willing to be a bit more flexible, or Welker's agent was a bit more flexible, the deal would have gotten done. But both sides drew their line in the sand, so there's no reason for anyone to be surprised or continue going on and on about it. Both sides share some of the blame, and we can continue to argue about who shoulders a more significant portion, but it takes two to tango, and neither side wanted to dance with the other anymore.

Wish Wes well, looking forward to seeing Danny out there.
 
First time I ever listen to that station and those two...Felger is an alternative to WEEI?? how can anyone stand listening to him. What is the point. He says what he believed and was not part of any fact gathering, talks to the guy there gathering facts and doesn't believe him. WHA??

I love Reiss responding, at one point, after he tried painfully to explain to Felger how the negotiations between Welker and the Pats went, "and that's reporting Mike." LOVED IT!!!!
Why does Felger keep saying it sucks that the Patriots' say they want Welker, but at their price?? What is it he wants them to do? Overpay everyone? Isn't that negotiating?
 
Felger is becoming the new contrarian, trying to replace Borges as the the chief hater...

Felger feeds the uninformed and hysterical..

New????????
 
Cliff Notes:
Felger would've been happy if the Patriots signed Welker to 3/24 earlier in the offeason (price doesn't matter) even though Felger knows Welker went for 2/12 eventually.

Also Felger believes the Pats knew of the 2/12 offer before free agency started and said 'we won't be the highest bidder so here's 2/10' and Welker said 'no I will go to the highest bidder'

Both arguments are illogical (esp the first) given the context / details that have come out

I understand that the smartest people don't always go into sports journalism, and that's why they start spouting off things like 'ego got in the way' but it would be nice if they could take some courses on logic and probability and statistics and philosophy to enhance their rational thought processing.

The bad timing / moving-on / misjudged market timeline is the one that clearly makes the most sense from both sides
 
I love Reiss responding, at one point, after he tried painfully to explain to Felger how the negotiations between Welker and the Pats went, "and that's reporting Mike." LOVED IT!!!!
Why does Felger keep saying it sucks that the Patriots' say they want Welker, but at their price?? What is it he wants them to do? Overpay everyone? Isn't that negotiating?

When Reiss tossed out the "and that's reporting Mike" line, I guarantee Felger had to bite his tongue and fight the urge to say "No Mike Reiss, that's you sticking to the Patriots talking points." We all know ESPN is in bed with the NFL, and these local ESPN spin offs are reliant on carpet bombing content. Reiss isn't providing hourly updates, stories, etc because he has the time to be super reporter and writer. Not a chance....no doubt their is a mutual understanding between NE and ESPN. Reiss' tone regarding all things NEP is too conciliatory too think any differently. Felger knows how it works and basically called out Reiss.

Look at what Reiss is hinting at today....Talib may go for a 1 year "prove it" contract now. Again, no agent would ever float this but a team definitely would. Reiss' "that's reporting, Mike" was a petty comment based on the reality of how wrong he was after writing how "optimistic" both sides were regarding WW 2 weeks ago. Far from reality.....and "that's the truth, Mike."
 
I think we are so fortunate to have Mike Reiss covering the Pats. I always enjoy reading his articles and opinions.

Regarding the Welker situation, I think both of these guys were debating over what is pure speculation at this point. The only people that know the whole story right now are the people involved in the actual negotiations.
 
This is The Electric Company
 
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