The 2013 Prospect Thread

manxman2601 · Mar 1, 2013

Wilfork#75 said:
I know this is going to be an unpopular opinion, but does anyone else think Tavon Austin is overrated? I know he obviously has talent, he is a freak athlete with incredible speed, but I just have a hard time seeing how that is going to translate to the NFL. My biggest issue is I don't see him having a set position. Sure he is versatile, but he is a guy you have to build your offense around, not use him to fit your offense.

I know most people think he is a slot receiver based off his size, but I don't think he has the bulk and physicality to consistently make those tough catches inside. Welker might be short, but he is quite thick and is undoubtedly tough and that is a very underrated trait of a slow WR. I just don't see that with Austin. Even with his speed I think he will struggle lining up on the outside against bigger CB's and I think there is only so much you can do with him in the running game. He doesn't have the size to run between the tackles and you can become predictable if he only runs draws or to the outside. My issue is do you spend a high pick on a guy that can do a little of everything, but apart from being fast isn't great at anything. He can obviously make big plays, I don't think anyone will doubt that, but to be a 1st round value he needs to be a consistent contributor as well as a playmaker. I just don't see him being a good enough pure WR or RB to be on the field for considerable snaps.

To me he is the Dion Jordan of offensive players. He is a freak athlete, certainly has talent, but I just don't know how you can use him to get enough value out of him. I think being versatile is great, but I also think you need a base role on a team and I personally don't see that role for either guy. I think if the value were lower I would take a shot at him, but I also think we have a guy in Demps who offers a similar skillset (if he doesn't leave to run track). I love watching Austin play and I think he was the most exciting player in college football. But that doesn't mean he will make a great pro and I certainly wouldn't use a 1st round pick on him.

Agree with you completely. He's a gimmick player and a damn good one but I don't see it with him as a receiver. He gets open so much based on WVU's schemes rather than his ability to run routes, his hands are questionable as his discipline. Everyone raves about the Oklahoma game and whilst his open field abilities are unquestionable, he was getting gaping holes in that game that I could have run through. I have biq question marks about how you get him the ball in the NFL.

DaBruinz · Mar 1, 2013

ctpatsfan77 said:
Just wondering: is this under the assumption that Vollmer walks, or even if he stays?

If Vollmer stays and Johnson is on the board, I would expect a trade back... I don't believe the Pats would use a 1st rounder on a swing tackle who would sit on the bench for another 3 years..

mackenzie45220 · Mar 1, 2013

Just wrote about D.J. Fluker
D.J. Fluker- 2013 NFL Draft Scouting Report
Unusual but has a high ceiling. If you go O-line, I trust him under your coaching staff as much as any

VJCPatriot · Mar 1, 2013

Wilfork#75 said:
To me he is the Dion Jordan of offensive players. He is a freak athlete, certainly has talent, but I just don't know how you can use him to get enough value out of him. I think being versatile is great, but I also think you need a base role on a team and I personally don't see that role for either guy. I think if the value were lower I would take a shot at him, but I also think we have a guy in Demps who offers a similar skillset (if he doesn't leave to run track). I love watching Austin play and I think he was the most exciting player in college football. But that doesn't mean he will make a great pro and I certainly wouldn't use a 1st round pick on him.

Maybe you are right and he turns into Reggie Bush or Darren Sproles. No set role, more of a swiss army knife. But those are some pretty valuable offensive players. I don't see any reason why Austin doesn't reach at least that level of production unless he literally falls apart at the seams.

Wilfork#75 · Mar 1, 2013

VJCPatriot said:
Maybe you are right and he turns into Reggie Bush or Darren Sproles. No set role, more of a swiss army knife. But those are some pretty valuable offensive players. I don't see any reason why Austin doesn't reach at least that level of production unless he literally falls apart at the seams.

I think the biggest difference between Austin and the guys you mentioned is they have a legitimate role as RB's because they have the bulk to hold up there. Sproles is 15lbs heavier than Austin and Bush is nearly 30lbs heavier. At 5'9" 174lbs his size and durability have to be a concern. I don't think he can run between the tackles, I don't think he is a pure WR and I think he is mainly a gadget offensive player and kick returner. To me that isn't a 1st round player, especially when we have other issues. He is a luxury pick, and someone will take him high, but I don't think it would be a good pick for us considering the depth of this draft, the holes on both offense and defense and the lack of picks this year.

nzahir · Mar 1, 2013

Damontre moore is no longer in the top 25 according to kiper. If we could get him, then i think our de's would be okay. Kawann short is also a good dt, but i dont think we can get him past the first round.
The pats should draft a dt and a de in the first 2 rounds(if we sign a good rt or resign Sebastian and sign a good wr or re sign welker).
In round 3 we should trade down for 2 4ths-get a guy like darick rodgers and a cover lb

mackenzie45220 · Mar 1, 2013

nzahir said:
Damontre moore is no longer in the top 25 according to kiper. If we could get him, then i think our de's would be okay. Kawann short is also a good dt, but i dont think we can get him past the first round.
The pats should draft a dt and a de in the first 2 rounds(if we sign a good rt or resign Sebastian and sign a good wr or re sign welker).
In round 3 we should trade down for 2 4ths-get a guy like darick rodgers and a cover lb

Of course, Kawann Short is worthy of a first round pick

Wilfork#75 · Mar 1, 2013

nzahir said:
Damontre moore is no longer in the top 25 according to kiper.

I think he is late on some old information. Walter Football looked into these rumors a few weeks ago and it doesn't seem to be very legitimate.

Lande stated on Twitter that he hasn't talked to an NFL scout who has graded Moore as a first-round prospect. Lande said that Moore belongs in the second round.

"Everyone I've spoken with has him as a first-rounder," an NFC scout told Charlie.

An AFC scout was even more specific. When asked whether our projection of Moore should be dropped from a high first-rounder to a low first-rounder or even a second-rounder, the scout enthusiastically replied, "I think you got him right!"

FEB. 13 UPDATE: We've spoken to an NFC general manager picking in the bottom half of the first round. He does not expect Moore to be around when he's on the clock. "We have him as a mid to high first," he said.

WalterFootball.com: NFL Draft Rumor Mill

patsfaninpa · Mar 1, 2013

nzahir said:
Damontre moore is no longer in the top 25 according to kiper. If we could get him, then i think our de's would be okay. Kawann short is also a good dt, but i dont think we can get him past the first round.
The pats should draft a dt and a de in the first 2 rounds(if we sign a good rt or resign Sebastian and sign a good wr or re sign welker).
In round 3 we should trade down for 2 4ths-get a guy like darick rodgers and a cover lb

If you're a 4-3 team, you can never go wrong drafting a DL early. We did sign Armstead as a free agent. So, I don't want to take them 1-2 since many think Armstead is like having a 2nd round pick. Damontre Moore and Bjorn Woerner seem to be slipping. Would one of them fall to 29?? If we go that direction, I'd like Datone Moore. But, it appears he won't last until 29 now. All depends on how free agency shakes down too. If we sign Dwight Freeney, I'd be ok on not drafting a de end this year because we are very young at that position. I like Short. But, we could have a bigger need at CB or WR.

kennyb · Mar 2, 2013

nzahir said:
Damontre moore is no longer in the top 25 according to kiper. If we could get him, then i think our de's would be okay. Kawann short is also a good dt, but i dont think we can get him past the first round.
The pats should draft a dt and a de in the first 2 rounds(if we sign a good rt or resign Sebastian and sign a good wr or re sign welker).
In round 3 we should trade down for 2 4ths-get a guy like darick rodgers and a cover lb

Too small too light too slow. Supposedly has a bad attitude. Too weak too. And that's a first round pick?

kennyb · Mar 2, 2013

patsfaninpa said:
If you're a 4-3 team, you can never go wrong drafting a DL early. We did sign Armstead as a free agent. So, I don't want to take them 1-2 since many think Armstead is like having a 2nd round pick. Damontre Moore and Bjorn Woerner seem to be slipping. Would one of them fall to 29?? If we go that direction, I'd like Datone Moore. But, it appears he won't last until 29 now. All depends on how free agency shakes down too. If we sign Dwight Freeney, I'd be ok on not drafting a de end this year because we are very young at that position. I like Short. But, we could have a bigger need at CB or WR.

Huge needs at we and db then you can definely go wrong drafting DL early. Especially when you have only 3 picks. And two late round fliers.

patsfaninpa · Mar 2, 2013

kennyb said:
Huge needs at we and db then you can definely go wrong drafting DL early. Especially when you have only 3 picks. And two late round fliers.

Our lack of pass rush killed us every bit as much as the loss of Talib in the AFCCG.

kennyb · Mar 2, 2013

patsfaninpa said:
Our lack of pass rush killed us every bit as much as the loss of Talib in the AFCCG.

maybe but they have DL on the roster. No guarantee anyone they get will do any good. High drafted DL have a high bust rate.

Meanwhile they have Dennard as a CB if Talib leaves (and mccourty who is not very good at cb, imo) and the sole WR is the oft injured edelman. And he hasn't played that much wr or been really effective at it.

patsfaninpa · Mar 2, 2013

kennyb said:
maybe but they have DL on the roster. No guarantee anyone they get will do any good. High drafted DL have a high bust rate.

Meanwhile they have Dennard as a CB if Talib leaves (and mccourty who is not very good at cb, imo) and the sole WR is the oft injured edelman. And he hasn't played that much wr or been really effective at it.

If we sign Welker and Talib, what do you think our biggest need left is?
I would probably say safety, but hoping we sign Ed Reed. Or DE. I'm more concerned
about a 3rd cb than a 3rd wr.

Jimke · Mar 2, 2013

patsfaninpa said:
Our lack of pass rush killed us every bit as much as the loss of Talib in the AFCCG.

The rub with drafting WRs and CBs is that the Patriots haven't done very well doing this. On the other hand, they have been good at drafting DLs and Ols.

DaBruinz · Mar 3, 2013

Jimke said:
The rub with drafting WRs and CBs is that the Patriots haven't done very well doing this. On the other hand, they have been good at drafting DLs and Ols.

Jimke - Sorry, but this is false. The Pats have actually done pretty decently drafting WR.

It's been mentioned a few times recently, the Pats have hit on 3 of 8 picks with the 9th (Ebert) not being counted one way or the other because he is back with the team and they gave him a futures contract.

When it comes to trying to sort out the CBs from the DBs, we run into the issue where the Pats have used players at Safety that they drafted for CB. Such and Antwan Harris and Eugene Wilson. Some people will try to claim Meriweather was the same way, but I believe it was a case of the Pats drafting him for Safety and seeing if he could handle CB.

The CBs the Pats have drafted since Belichick got here are:
Brock Williams, Leonard Myers, Asante Samuel, Christian Morton, Ellis Hobbs, Mike Richardson, Terrence Wheatley, Jonathan Wilhite, Darius Butler, Devin McCourty, Ras-I Dowling, Alfonzo Dennard.

Now, I don't count Dowling or Dennard because they are still pretty raw. That leaves us with 3 full-time starters and a late round guy who was a regular on special teams. That works out to be about 35% in my book. Which is about average for the draft in general.

So, in both cases, the Pats are over 30%. Which is neither good nor bad in my book.

patriot.de · Mar 3, 2013

What's with Kenny Tate? Last year he was a first rounder as a FS. Then he switched back to OLB in his Senior Season. Is he worth a look as a coverage linebacker?

EwanSellars · Mar 3, 2013

7th round kenny tate for sure

mackenzie45220 · Mar 3, 2013

kennyb said:
Too small too light too slow. Supposedly has a bad attitude. Too weak too. And that's a first round pick?

One thing I will say about Damontre Moore; he's a lot better against the run than people realize. He led Texas A&M with a terrific 85 tackles this year, ridiculous for a defensive lineman. He's average in terms of penetrating but disengaged from blocks with incredible ease and make tackles in the open field. Just sayin'

As a pass rusher, his athleticism isn't amazing, but he's a leverage master who thrives on defensive line stunts

mackenzie45220 · Mar 3, 2013

My John Boyett scouting report
John Boyett- 2013 NFL Draft Scouting Report
When healthy, he's the Luke Kuechly of safeties. Incredible instincts.

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