Asante Samuel on Fox Sports radio with Artrell Hawkins

BaltimorePatsFan · Feb 20, 2013

borg said:
Patriots won 3 SBs with top notch DBs and mediocre WRs and TE .
Patriots have won 0 SBs with top notch WRs and TEs but mediocre at best DBs............hmmmmmmmmm
PS.....Lloyd does not fall under my top notch heading. He is in the "trip over his shadow" category

Pats also had a better and tougher front 7 when they won those 3 SBs.

Seymour was THE best defensive lineman in football during the SB years. Ted Washington > Vince Wilfork in 2003. Also, players like Bobby Hamilton and Anthony Pleasant were extremely underrated as well.

EDIT: I meant Ted Washington in 2003 was a better NT than Vince at any point in his career. Vince is/was awesome but Ted Washington was perhaps the greatest NT of all-time.

Jackson 2 · Feb 20, 2013

No disrespect to Asante, but any comparison between his career body of work and Welker's is foolish. Welker right now is a borderline HOFer. Asante isn't close.

ausbacker · Feb 20, 2013

How quickly people are seduced by Samuel's interceptions whilst easily forgetting the amount of over the top passes he was burnt on by gambling. Super ball hawk, average DB.

I'd take Welker in a no contest.

Deus Irae · Feb 20, 2013

Samuel makes a good point.

Helmet2Helmet · Feb 21, 2013

Jackson 2 said:
No disrespect to Asante, but any comparison between his career body of work and Welker's is foolish. Welker right now is a borderline HOFer. Asante isn't close.

Uh, neither of them are even close to being HOFers.

strngplyr · Feb 21, 2013

Helmet2Helmet said:
Uh, neither of them are even close to being HOFers.

Welker will go down as probably the best slot receiver to ever play the game as well as one of the most productive receivers.

Over his 6 season stretch with NE he has 672 receptions and 7459 yards (13.2ypc). That's easily HoF production.

Not to mention his exceptional return numbers when he played for the Dolphins. He may not be a first ballot guy but he's a HoFer, especially if he sticks around for another 2 or 3 years playing at his current level. He's only 2 or 3 seasons away from having over 1,000 receptions and 10,000 yards. How many HoF receivers are there that can say that?

I'll answer that for you: 2.

nashvillepatsfan · Feb 21, 2013

ausbacker said:
How quickly people are seduced by Samuel's interceptions whilst easily forgetting the amount of over the top passes he was burnt on by gambling. Super ball hawk, average DB.

:agree:

I'd rather a 40 yr old Ty Law, than Samuels

Jackson 2 · Feb 21, 2013

Helmet2Helmet said:
Uh, neither of them are even close to being HOFers.

I call BS. One is. One isn't.

ivanvamp · Feb 21, 2013

MP-Logick said:
Well, to be fair, if Welker doggedly pursues his market value rather then taking a discount to help chase a championship, then Asante is well within his rights to call Welker out since he criticized him for the same thing.

Yeah, but what if he gets big bucks *and* can chase a championship at the same time? For example, suppose the Pats let him go and Denver pays a ton for him. You could make a really good argument that Denver has a better chance than New England (or at least as good a chance) at a SB title.

fnordcircle · Feb 21, 2013

JackBauer said:
You do realize the league was a different place back then, right?

And yet the teams who win the Super Bowls have still typically been teams with defenses who were able to dictate tone/pressure the QB. Steelers, Giants, Ravens.

We won with a solid defense. We're not winning with a mediocre one.

Fantasy Football's ******ed impact on NFL commentary be damned. Stats don't win - defense does.

fair catch fryar · Feb 21, 2013

Helmet2Helmet said:
It's a completely true statement. People are entitled to rank Patriots as they see fit. In my mind, I'll always take Samuel over Welker. I could say the same thing to you. How do you expect anyone to take you seriously for liking Welker more than Samuel?

To begin with, it's a silly comparison and weak at that. IMO Samuel was a effective corner with the Pats most of the time, but not a great one.

fnordcircle · Feb 21, 2013

Asante's right. The Patriots did not care about him. With a few exceptions they do not 'care' about any player.

If the Patriots could find a cheaper upgrade for everyone on the team they would do it. Fans are fine with this.

If a player finds a better-paying job they should take it. Fans act like this is greed.

Fan hypocrisy at its finest. The team is allowed to cut players at a whim, but woe betide the player who also makes decisions based on the bottom line. Out come the fans with empty platitudes about 'X million dollars should be enough'.

That's why I hate these threads. Because to someone making $200 a year you're greedy for quitting a job making $30k to make $35k. But somehow trying to make $35m instead of $30m is a moral wrong...

condon84 · Feb 21, 2013

Asante is well within his rights to speak about Welker's situation since a) he went through the same situation years ago when he was with the Pats b) Wes made comments regarding Asante's situation when it did happen.

Unless Welker takes a team friendly deal from the Pats, then he's a hypocrite.

JackBauer · Feb 21, 2013

fnordcircle said:
And yet the teams who win the Super Bowls have still typically been teams with defenses who were able to dictate tone/pressure the QB. Steelers, Giants, Ravens.

We won with a solid defense. We're not winning with a mediocre one.

Fantasy Football's ******ed impact on NFL commentary be damned. Stats don't win - defense does.

So you're cherry picking, and you're also eliding the fact that the NYG were 17th in PPG and the Baltimore tied for 12th. Other than that...

Triumph · Feb 22, 2013

borg said:
Patriots won 3 SBs with top notch DBs and mediocre WRs and TE .
Patriots have won 0 SBs with top notch WRs and TEs but mediocre at best DBs............hmmmmmmmmm
PS.....Lloyd does not fall under my top notch heading. He is in the "trip over his shadow" category

Bingo

You nailed it. Having said that, IMO the Pats need to spend even more resources on the WRs this season because the secondary is a harder fix.

fnordcircle · Feb 22, 2013

JackBauer said:
So you're cherry picking, and you're also eliding the fact that the NYG were 17th in PPG and the Baltimore tied for 12th. Other than that...

When did I ever say they were the #1 defense in PPG? Or anything of that sort?

I said we've lost to defenses that could dictate the game/set the tone. Do you disagree or are you going to prop up another strawman?

Triumph · Feb 22, 2013

fnordcircle said:
When did I ever say they were the #1 defense in PPG? Or anything of that sort?

I said we've lost to defenses that could dictate the game/set the tone. Do you disagree or are you going to prop up another strawman?

The Ravens 12th ranked ppg defense shut down the Patriots 1st ranked ppg offense.

The Giants 17th ranked ppg defense shut down the Patriots 3rd ranked ppg offense.

Both defenses suffered injuries to key defensive players during the regular season and got healthy towards the post season. They also played some of their best defense in the post season.

DaBruinz · Feb 22, 2013

borg said:
Patriots won 3 SBs with top notch DBs and mediocre WRs and TE .
Patriots have won 0 SBs with top notch WRs and TEs but mediocre at best DBs............hmmmmmmmmm
PS.....Lloyd does not fall under my top notch heading. He is in the "trip over his shadow" category

Triumph said:
Bingo

You nailed it. Having said that, IMO the Pats need to spend even more resources on the WRs this season because the secondary is a harder fix.

False - They won 2 SBs with Top notch DBs.. The 3rd one, 2004, they had a rookie DB named Samuel, a WR who was playing Nickel Corner in Troy Brown, and a 2nd year UDFA in Randall Gay. Samuel and Gay were mediocre that year.

Also, calling Branch and Givens "mediocre" WRs is pathetic. They were GOOD WRs.. But you down play them because that's the only way you can even remotely come close to making your point..

As for your statement about Lloyd, it's BS too. You don't let real facts get in your way, do you?

IllegalContact · Feb 23, 2013

JackBauer said:
Come on. I realize you're on a Welker jihad and all, but you can't type that out and expect to be taken seriously.

Spoken like a true homer

RayClay · Feb 23, 2013

fnordcircle said:
Asante's right. The Patriots did not care about him. With a few exceptions they do not 'care' about any player.

If the Patriots could find a cheaper upgrade for everyone on the team they would do it. Fans are fine with this.

If a player finds a better-paying job they should take it. Fans act like this is greed.

Fan hypocrisy at its finest. The team is allowed to cut players at a whim, but woe betide the player who also makes decisions based on the bottom line. Out come the fans with empty platitudes about 'X million dollars should be enough'.

That's why I hate these threads. Because to someone making $200 a year you're greedy for quitting a job making $30k to make $35k. But somehow trying to make $35m instead of $30m is a moral wrong...

I agree and when a player makes it clear he increasingly cares only about money and interceptions, I'd drive him to the airport as a fan or team official.

It's no different than anyone in the job market. You can go for the money and reputation only, or you can also consider the character of and happiness with an organization perform in positive ways, even if they don't get you the dollars right away.

What I'm saying is, Asante had decided he had the ability to make the flashy interception and some fool would always pay him even if he was taking stupid risks detrimental to the overall defense. Good luck with that!

The smart players consider the situation and the money, I assume.

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