Would you give up the 2nd round pick for Percy Harvin?

strngplyr said:

Why are our backup QB's who have never played a meaningful snap always worth a 1st round draft pick? Remember Hoyer who was simply cut and unemployed? He was worth a 1st rounder in trades too according to this board.

We didn't even get a 1st rounder for Cassel AND Vrabel combined, with Cassel having proven himself in a full season and Vrabel being a full time starter and well respected member of the defense.

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Why are QB's coming out of college, never having played a meaningful snap in the NFL worth a 1st round pick?

And I'm talking about a future first which is actually late first or second round value.

Mallett has much more upside than Hoyer and Cassell so that argument is irrelevant. Is Mallett better than what teams like Arizona or Cleveland have already? Is he better or worse than the QB's available in this years draft? Would the new GM's/HC's of QB needy teams value value someone with NFL experience, even on the practice field, to boost their new tenure from the start. Those are more likely starting points for determining Mallett's value than Cassell or Hoyer.

And perhaps you missed the bit where I said that it was "wishful thinking" anyway.


Edit: Charlie Whitehurst was traded from the Chargers to the Seahawks which netted the Chargers about 400 draft trade points. He, too my knowledge, hadn't played a meaningful NFL snap at the time so it's not a completely ridiculous notion. 400 points is a mid-second rounder and future picks take this years value and up it by a round (ie. this years 2nd = 2014 1st which is what I suggested).

I've read a lot of scouts are comparing Tavon Austin to Percy Harvin from a physical ability pov so I did some digging.

This is it in a nutshell...Tavon Austin is strong for his size but Harvin is strong for any size. Percy Harvin benches 405 lbs and squats 500 lbs. Harvin is a freak of nature. I'm not dissing Austin. I'd love him on the Pats but Harvin is in another league. Incredible.

Comparing Harvin to Austin is like comparing a Dodge Daytona to a Honda CRX.

chevss454 said:

I've read a lot of scouts are comparing Tavon Austin to Percy Harvin from a physical ability pov so I did some digging.

This is it in a nutshell...Tavon Austin is strong for his size but Harvin is strong for any size. Percy Harvin benches 405 lbs and squats 500 lbs. Harvin is a freak of nature. I'm not dissing Austin. I'd love him on the Pats but Harvin is in another league. Incredible.

Comparing Harvin to Austin is like comparing a Dodge Daytona to a Honda CRX.

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Hey hey, the Rex is a great car. Still have mine

Trade Welker for Harvin!

fleabassist1 said:

Trade Welker for Harvin!

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Why.........?


My bad, it's to get a less productive player at 3x the cost. Don't know why i hadn't figured that out beforehand.

Ivan said:

Why.........?


My bad, it's to get a less productive player at 3x the cost. Don't know why i hadn't figured that out beforehand.

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Percy is faster and taller then Welker. Welker was not quite the same with the Fish and benefits greatly from a system that Percy would fill wonderfully. His gripe is more about his role then it is money, so getting him at a comparable cost to welker is realistic seeing as how Welker is demanding over 20$ million.

fleabassist1 said:

Percy is faster and taller then Welker. Welker was not quite the same with the Fish and benefits greatly from a system that Percy would fill wonderfully. His gripe is more about his role then it is money, so getting him at a comparable cost to welker is realistic seeing as how Welker is demanding over 20$ million.

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Wes Welker is a better player, more productive, more durable, more reliable, and Harvin wants 125 million.

fleabassist1 said:

Percy is faster and taller then Welker. .

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So is Chad jackson, another brilliant argument to get rid of Welker, taller and faster................

Paying a 2nd round pick for Harvin's talent is fine. I don't have a problem with compensation. The problem is that Harvin will likely demand a 10m per year contract. And we are just not going to give him that money. Particuarly if we won't give Welker that kind of money either.

Is this a serious question? BB is arguably the worst in the NFL when it comes to picking players in the 2nd round. Even if he misses a bunch of games, Harvin would still produce more than most of BB's 2nd round RB/WRs combined.

fleabassist1 said:

His gripe is more about his role then it is money, so getting him at a comparable cost to welker is realistic seeing as how Welker is demanding over 20$ million.

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Ivan said:

Wes Welker is a better player, more productive, more durable, more reliable, and Harvin wants 125 million.

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Not meaning to disrespect fleabassist1 in any form or manner, but this is a prime example of the popular misconception that "Welker is demanding big money," when that isn't true at all.

Welker wants to be paid something fair and reasonable for his production and durability, but it isn't even a fraction of what the top tier (or up and coming younger players at WR) are demanding.

We have guys like Mike Wallace who haven't really done much of anything in comparison to Welker, and they are demanding to be paid pacts of 12 million aav with guarantees in the 40's/50's.

Percy Harvin is reportedly one of these guys. While he is young and talented, I doubt that Belichick would even think twice about a gamble like this. The fact that it would cost a high draft pick or picks make the point even less likely.

Belichick is the kind of guy that will go out and take advantage of the Reggie Wayne's of the world, guys who are smart, experienced, and can still produce at a level that is somewhat comparable to the elite WR's. More importantly, guys who take up a small fraction of what these WR's are going for.

Unfortunately there are still going to be holes on the team every year, so he'll just have to do the best he can trying to address those issues while looking towards the bigger picture. Hopefully we can see the position improved, although I have my doubts if Welker is not brought back again.

The draft and lower cost WR's will likely be the answer, not these expensive options that may/may not work out that cost insane amounts of money.

chevss454 said:

I've read a lot of scouts are comparing Tavon Austin to Percy Harvin from a physical ability pov so I did some digging.

This is it in a nutshell...Tavon Austin is strong for his size but Harvin is strong for any size. Percy Harvin benches 405 lbs and squats 500 lbs. Harvin is a freak of nature. I'm not dissing Austin. I'd love him on the Pats but Harvin is in another league. Incredible.

Comparing Harvin to Austin is like comparing a Dodge Daytona to a Honda CRX.

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Thanks for doing the legwork for a comparison. I was wondering about T.Austin more myself.

One thing to keep in mind though is that it pretty much comes down to this comparison:

--A more talented Percy Harvin with better strength and measurables, but will cost upwards of 11-12 million aav and lots of guarantees

OR

--A less talented Tavon Austin who may not be anything more than a good young pickup BUT comes on an extremely cheap rookie pact

Much like everything in life, it's all about the overall value. It's also this reasoning that cracks me up when I read about "how much Belichick liked Harvin coming out of school," and that's why the rumors are even more likely to happen.

The truth was that Harvin was coming out of school on a cheap rookie deal, and Belichick probably did see a ton of potential talent in him, but as the specifics have now changed so likely have BB's thinking in acquiring him. My guess is that he'll go with the "next" Percy Harvin who is cheap and affordable, or at least someone who can do some of the things that he can do.

Okay didn't read all 16 pages... but someone help me out: Fast, strong, pot, migraines, right?

PatsFanInVa said:

Okay didn't read all 16 pages... but someone help me out: Fast, strong, pot, migraines, right?

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Migraines are no longer an issue. I think his new contract would be the biggest roadblock to trading for him.

Hey I'm just playing devil's advocate - not against a Harvin signing, per se -- but when was his last migraine? Didn't he miss time this past season with them? How can we know they're not an issue anymore?

No thanks. Too much to pay for draft pick(s) and salary to take on this flawed player.

Sciz said:

Migraines are no longer an issue. I think his new contract would be the biggest roadblock to trading for him.

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And the fact we'd be giving away a second round pick.


No, no, no, a million times no. Maybe if he had two years on his deal and the Vikings threw in a 4th I would, but getting into the business of trading high picks for one year rentals is a terrible idea.

That is exactly what Belichick likes to do to OTHER teams and that's why we were successful- trading guys away right before they got to ask for a big contract.

That is why the Raiders were the Raiders and we were the Patriots for the past 15 years.

PatsFanInVa said:

Hey I'm just playing devil's advocate - not against a Harvin signing, per se -- but when was his last migraine? Didn't he miss time this past season with them? How can we know they're not an issue anymore?

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Percy Harvin in Chesapeake: Migraines may be history | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com

Percy Harvin is headache-free. The Minnesota Vikings receiver hasn't had one of his debilitating migraines in five or six months, he said Friday.

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From mid-June of 2011, 5-6 months earlier would put him at late December of 2010 or early January of 2011. He missed three games in the first two seasons of his career with migraine issues and none either of the past two seasons. The large chunk of this past season that he missed was because he tore a ligament in his ankle.