Barkley @ 29

Before you say no way, lets take a look at what we have at QB.

Brady: HOFer BUT has shown no mobility and is only getting older. Defences know if you get respectable pass rush against the pats Brady is ineffective. Brady also only has i believe 2 years left on his deal which is perfect for barkley developing. It could be like a Rodgers and Favre situation without all the BS.

The X-Factor is what happens with Mallet.

Mallet: Mallet is viewed as an NFL ready qb by many teams. I think this comes down to if he is traded for a first or not. Cleveland wants this kid so bad but are they going to give up the 6th pick? That is the x-factor. Mallets contract will be up when brady's is up and who knows what his agent will want due to him being a "hot commodity" even though he hasn't done anything yet. If we can get a first for mallet then we can fix the position we wanted @ 29 and then use 29 as a luxury pick for Barkley.

Barkley: Man this kid is so talented, he was considered a top 5 pick last year if he came out. He had shoulder issues which effected him this year but those are not long term injuries. I think he's gunna be way better then any other bum QB in this draft (Geno may be decent). Barkley could learn under brady for 2-3 years and take over the reigns.

What do you guys think?

i could just about live with it. The truth is, we have no idea whether Brady will play beyond two more years or what the Patriots think about Mallett. Them drafting a QB in the first round will tell us a lot about the future and the transition to a Brady-less team. I don't see it happening, but the possibility is certainly there.

Although, whilst Barkley has grown on me in recent weeks and is quite a nice fit to run the current incarnation of our offense, I prefer Zac Dysert as a higher upside pick in the long-term.

JPsPats said:

Before you say no way, lets take a look at what we have at QB.

Brady: HOFer BUT has shown no mobility and is only getting older. Defences know if you get respectable pass rush against the pats Brady is ineffective. Brady also only has i believe 2 years left on his deal which is perfect for barkley developing. It could be like a Rodgers and Favre situation without all the BS.

The X-Factor is what happens with Mallet.

Mallet: Mallet is viewed as an NFL ready qb by many teams. I think this comes down to if he is traded for a first or not. Cleveland wants this kid so bad but are they going to give up the 6th pick? That is the x-factor. Mallets contract will be up when brady's is up and who knows what his agent will want due to him being a "hot commodity" even though he hasn't done anything yet. If we can get a first for mallet then we can fix the position we wanted @ 29 and then use 29 as a luxury pick for Barkley.

Barkley: Man this kid is so talented, he was considered a top 5 pick last year if he came out. He had shoulder issues which effected him this year but those are not long term injuries. I think he's gunna be way better then any other bum QB in this draft (Geno may be decent). Barkley could learn under brady for 2-3 years and take over the reigns.

What do you guys think?

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How bout we try to draft some players that help us win a championship in the next year or two?

patsfaninpa said:

How bout we try to draft some players that help us win a championship in the next year or two?

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It's that or maybe drafting someone who can help us win championships over the next decade.

It's too easy to get flippant over who replaces Brady. It HAS to be considered now. It might be that they plan to extend him or that they like Mallett as his replacement and if so, this thread becomes moot but if neither of those things aren't true then a QB is a must this year or next.

patsfaninpa said:

How bout we try to draft some players that help us win a championship in the next year or two?

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Of course thats a logical option (and most likely what will happen). The only negative thing that could happen with that is if those players we draft take a year or 2 to develop and we are Bradyless at that time.

manxman2601 said:

It's that or maybe drafting someone who can help us win championships over the next decade.

It's too easy to get flippant over who replaces Brady. It HAS to be considered now. It might be that they plan to extend him or that they like Mallett as his replacement and if so, this thread becomes moot but if neither of those things aren't true then a QB is a must this year or next.

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Until or unless we trade Mallett. It's really crazy to draft another qb. And, Barkley isn't that great a prospect. Surrounded by 5* talent. Used what was around him. Great ol prospects like Kalil and Smith. Wr's like Lee and Woods. Not great size. And, not a great arm. Not a great athlete. Don't you remember my plan to replace TFB?

Here's my idea on how to replace Brady. We enter the Summer of 2016 fresh off of winning our 3rd Super Bowl in 4 years. 6 for Brady and Belichick. Tommy announces his retirement and heads off to Brazil with Giselle for the Summer Olympics. White Wes and Vince retire with him.

That summer the Tea Party storms out of the Republican Convention and decides to nominate Bill Belichick for President. Flabbergasted, he accepts. The Russkis will really be worried about our spy network now. Putin puts Russia in Defcon 2 and enlists Ovechkin, Malkin, Kovalchuk and Yakupov in his new EOD skating teams. US has their seals. He has his polar bears.

A confluence of things happens at the same time. Ryan Mallett is arrested for having a Meth lab in his condo. Robert Kraft hops on a jet and tries to talk TFB out of retirement.
However, he falls in love with one of Gisele's friends and stays in Brazil a few months longer than expected.

Belichick names son Steven his replacement. Jonathan Kraft becomes GM. They sign Jamarcus Russell to qb our Pats.

Rob Gronkowski takes a year off to join Professional Surfers Tour. Someone spikes Ahern's brownies with hash and the league pops him for a year.

Patriot fans are distracted by Belichick's failed presidential run. Someone has to replace Obama. Amidst all of the distractions. The squad goes 1-15 and garners the first pick in the 2017 draft. There's your qb.

Mr. Kraft struggles with Portuguese and returns in the spring of 2017 with Tom Brady who wants to go for number 7. Belichick sends Steven abroad to further his education and the Krafts re-hire Bill. Spicoli..err...Gronk returns lamenting the waves and tasty brews weren't what he thought. AHern returns looking like Ray Lewis circa 2000. All is well.

Maybe, I've read a few too many Robert Ludlum books

I don't rate Barkley, or indeed any QB of this draft class. Can't see any of them having a longterm impact in the NFL.

patsfaninpa said:

Until or unless we trade Mallett. It's really crazy to draft another qb. And, Barkley isn't that great a prospect. Surrounded by 5* talent. Used what was around him. Great ol prospects like Kalil and Smith. Wr's like Lee and Woods. Not great size. And, not a great arm. Not a great athlete. Don't you remember my plan to replace TFB?

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Reminds me of someone we have.... But he worked out didnt he? AND barkley had a god awful o-line this season. And your wrong about his arm, he actually has a strong enough arm (NFL Standard) and displayed it his junior season. His shoulder injury obviously effected him this season.

I would absolutely, without a doubt, 100% and without a second of hesitation draft Matt Barkley in the 1st round (assuming we Trade Mallett). I have watched a ton of USC games over the last 2 years and I fully believe this kid is special. There is no other QB I would draft, but I strongly believe Barkley could be 'The One.' I will post my full evaluation of him later, but I really do believe in this kid.

If the Pats are going to draft a QB to groom to replace Brady, then I'd rather have him being a huge upside guy that needs some work, so a guy like Kaepernick. I wouldn't be nearly as much of a fan of a lower ceiling, higher floor guy like Barkley.

There is a better chance of the Pats using #29 on Charles Barkley

patsfaninpa said:

Until or unless we trade Mallett. It's really crazy to draft another qb. And, Barkley isn't that great a prospect. Surrounded by 5* talent. Used what was around him. Great ol prospects like Kalil and Smith. Wr's like Lee and Woods. Not great size. And, not a great arm. Not a great athlete. Don't you remember my plan to replace TFB?

Here's my idea on how to replace Brady. We enter the Summer of 2016 fresh off of winning our 3rd Super Bowl in 4 years. 6 for Brady and Belichick. Tommy announces his retirement and heads off to Brazil with Giselle for the Summer Olympics. White Wes and Vince retire with him.

That summer the Tea Party storms out of the Republican Convention and decides to nominate Bill Belichick for President. Flabbergasted, he accepts. The Russkis will really be worried about our spy network now. Putin puts Russia in Defcon 2 and enlists Ovechkin, Malkin, Kovalchuk and Yakupov in his new EOD skating teams. US has their seals. He has his polar bears.

A confluence of things happens at the same time. Ryan Mallett is arrested for having a Meth lab in his condo. Robert Kraft hops on a jet and tries to talk TFB out of retirement.
However, he falls in love with one of Gisele's friends and stays in Brazil a few months longer than expected.

Belichick names son Steven his replacement. Jonathan Kraft becomes GM. They sign Jamarcus Russell to qb our Pats.

Rob Gronkowski takes a year off to join Professional Surfers Tour. Someone spikes Ahern's brownies with hash and the league pops him for a year.

Patriot fans are distracted by Belichick's failed presidential run. Someone has to replace Obama. Amidst all of the distractions. The squad goes 1-15 and garners the first pick in the 2017 draft. There's your qb.

Mr. Kraft struggles with Portuguese and returns in the spring of 2017 with Tom Brady who wants to go for number 7. Belichick sends Steven abroad to further his education and the Krafts re-hire Bill. Spicoli..err...Gronk returns lamenting the waves and tasty brews weren't what he thought. AHern returns looking like Ray Lewis circa 2000. All is well.

Maybe, I've read a few too many Robert Ludlum books

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One Robert Ludlum book is one Robert Ludlum book too many.

Sciz said:

If the Pats are going to draft a QB to groom to replace Brady, then I'd rather have him being a huge upside guy that needs some work, so a guy like Kaepernick. I wouldn't be nearly as much of a fan of a lower ceiling, higher floor guy like Barkley.

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I disagree that Barkley has a low ceiling. I don't think physical skill equals upside at the QB position, I think ability to run an offense at an elite level equals upside. Give me the guy that can beat defenses pre snap with his mind rather than a big arm. The thing that seperates the truly elite QBs in the NFL isn't the physical skills, it's the intelligence and understanding of the position that makes the likes of Brady, Manning and Brees so good. That's the guy I want and that's who I think Barkley is.

Mark Sanchez jr.

Seriously though. I don't like it when blue chip prospects take a step back in their development. I mean the guy goes from top 5 to maybe a end of the round guy.
Some of his deficiencies are correctable of course. But my big thing is with all the talent that USC has, how does he regress?

Patriot Missile said:

Mark Sanchez jr.

Seriously though. I don't like it when blue chip prospects take a step back in their development. I mean the guy goes from top 5 to maybe a end of the round guy.
Some of his deficiencies are correctable of course. But my big thing is with all the talent that USC has, how does he regress?

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I think it's a pretty simple explanation, have you seen the USC offensive line? They were poor all season and Barkley, like Brady and all pocket QB's struggles with pressure up the middle. Just look at the Stanford game. In the first half when he had decent enough O-line play, he played well and moved the ball down the field. In the second half when the Stanford D-line started to dominate he played poor and couldn't get anything going. I also think the run game certainly regressed from 2011 which certainly didn't help. Add in quite a few drops (especially from Woods) and inconsistent TE play and there are a number if reasons why he didn't perform as well as 2011. You could also add the poor USC defense putting them in shootouts as another reason his stats (especially his Ints) weren't great.

I'm not saying he didn't have his share of mistake and poor play, but I think a lot of his statistical regression can be explained. I also find his drop down draft boards quite comical actually. He is being evaluated based on his performance vs his high expectations, not against the other QB's in the draft. If you take away the expectations for Barkley and just look at performance, skillset and intangibles, I don't see how you can possibly rank the likes of Nassib and Glennon above him. He is clearly the superior QB prospect but people aren't judging them on an even playing field because their expectations from Barkley were much higher.

personally id rather try to get Aj McCarron next year or wait for Christian Hackenburg and use 29 on a a good dt/s to help out the defense

I would rather have drafted Kellen Moore last year

If you look at this analysis, Barkley is probably the best QB of the bunch, at least statistically.

Smith, Barkley, Glennon, and Wilson – A Metrics Breakdown « Second Round Stats

1. Ironically, he's got the most accurate longball of the big four (Geno, Wilson, Barkley, Glennon) although he's less accurate up to 10 yds than Smith and Glennon.

2. Has the second highest Yards per Pass (ie excludes YAC) which is surprising as more than 50% of his passes go less than 5 yards.

3. He's the second best at 3rd down completion just behind Glennon.

4. He's equally accurate from under center or out of the shotgun.


My one big doubt with Barkley is that 52% of his passes go for less than five yards which seems very high and not great preperation but there's certainly, at least statistically, a case to be made that he's the best of what's available.

Umm.. Absolutely not. Barkley isn't worth #29 unless we're trading it to a team that wants him. Unless something crazy happens, it's unlikely that there will be more than 1 QB taken in the 1st round this year.

This is a pretty poor crop of QBs. There are (or will be) a plethora of capable starting QBs available come the start of free agency. You have Flacco out there. You have Alex Smith who has asked to be released (or traded). You have Matt Flynn who is likely to be traded. Vick is gonna be released (if he hasn't been already. I haven't checked the transactions). And Jason Campbell is out there. Then you could also have Matt Cassel if he's released by the Chiefs, which is probably likely. And then you have Mallett, who's been rumored to be heading to Cleveland..

Not to mention that there aren't a lot of teams needing a QB. Kansas City. The Jets (though they are still on the board with Mark "Titanic" Sanchez). Maybe Jacksonville if they've given up on Gabbert already. Arizona (if they've given up on Kolb). And maybe the Raiders. Beyond that. most other teams feel they're set at QB.

Also, don't be surprised if the Pats like what they see in Kafka. They did bring him back after the tryout he had.

This is my evaluation of Matt Barkley and why I like him so much. There are a number of factors I take into consideration when evaluating a QB and not just physical skills.

The Arm
One of the biggest criticisms of Barkley is the lack of elite arm strength. This is certainly true, he doesn’t have a Joe Flacco or Ryan Mallett arm. But from within the pocket he has above average arm strength and certainly enough arm to make all the throws necessary in the NFL. He puts good zip on intermediate throws and has a very good deep ball, although that is built around touch and timing rather than arm strength. Outside of the pocket though his arm is weaker and he can get into a bit of trouble. He has fantastic touch on all of his passes and works the entire field well. He does a great job of putting the ball in front of his WRs to allow them to run after the catch and is excellent at driving the ball down the field from inside of the pocket. Mechanically he is picture perfect. Great, quick over the top release, good tight spiral. He was built to be an NFL QB. Overall, if he is able to throw from the pocket he certainly has the arm strength, accuracy and touch to be an elite QB. However, if he is flushed out of the pocket and forced to throw on the run he can struggle.

Size/Athletecism
This is probably the other biggest criticism of Barkley. He doesn’t have elite height at 6’2” but has good bulk at 230lbs. He isn’t a great athlete and doesn’t run well. He struggles outside the pocket and won’t make plays with his legs. Purely a pocket passer and not a fit for every system.

Awareness
This is where Barkley shines. While he doesn’t have great athleticism, his mobility within the pocket is fantastic. He feels pressure well, keeps his eyes down field and steps up to make the throw. This is what first made me fall in love with him during the 2011 season. His pocket awareness is the best I’ve ever seen out of a college QB and reminds me a lot of Tom Brady. He did take a step back in this area in 2012 due to poor offensive line. Like all pocket passers he can struggle with pressure directly up the middle, but when the O-Line does a decent job and gives him a chance to step up and make a throw he is fantastic. He gets rid of the ball extremely quickly to help mask some of the deficiencies of his O-line and is certainly pro-ready in this respect.

Pro-Readiness
Barkley comes from a Pro-Style, West Coast offense under Lane Kiffin. He is about as good a pre-snap QB as you will ever find in college football. He understands defences, makes pre-snap reads and adjust the play call accordingly. He reads progressions well, although he has sometimes had a tendency to lock onto certain receivers if he likes a particular matchup. In 2011 I though he locked onto Robert Woods too often, but thought he was actually a better QB when Woods wasn’t on the field and was forced to read through his other progressions. I’m not sure if this was because he didn’t trust his other receivers or Woods wasn’t happy unless he had the ball (he is known to be a bit of a diva).

Barkley plays from both under centre and in the shotgun. He is fantastic from a 3 step drop and also very good from 5 and 7 step drops. He runs a pro style system so he makes all the throws required in the NFL, and has a good mixture of short, intermediate and deep balls. He also has experience running a 2min and no huddle offense which should be a great benefit when adjusting to the NFL. He won the starting job as a true freshman and has 47 career starts. He is as experienced and intelligent a QB prospect as you will ever find.

QB/WR Relationship
One of the things I really look for when evaluating a QB is what kind of relationship they are able to develop with their teammates, especially the WRs. I think creating that relationship and being on the same page as the guy catching the ball is a huge part of playing QB. You need to have confidence and trust in the other person and being able to do that at the collegiate level is a good sign that a QB can do it in the NFL. Barkley has done that with 2 of college football’s best WR’s in Robert Woods and Marquise Lee. You could say that he wouldn’t be the same QB without these two, which is certainly true. But they also wouldn’t be the same WR’s without him. He has played a huge part in their development and created that strong on field relationship which certainly isn’t easy (we have seen Brady struggle to do that with some guys here).

Leadership/Intangibles
Barkley was the first true Sophomore to be named Team Captain at USC and has been a fantastic leader through some dark times for that program. He was a victim of the Pete Carroll debacle and was forced to lead that team through the entire situation and NCAA sanctions. I don’t think you could expect a young man to handle a situation any better than Barkley did. I can’t praise the kid enough for his maturity during this situation, as well as the strength of character for returning and trying to win a National Title once the NCAA sanctions were lifted.

He is a strong and confident leader that is loved and respected by his teammates. A true field general that leads his team on and off of the gridiron. He has no character concerns to speak of and is very active in the community and charity work. He was built to be the face of a franchise and his intangibles are as good as it gets.

Overall
I think Barkley is an elite QB prospect and has the chance to be an elite QB in the NFL if put in the right situation. Does he have the potential to be a bust? Absolutely. But put in the right situation with the right scheme I think he will be fantastic. He’s not a fit for everyone, but as long as he is kept in the pocket with a decent O-line he should be fine.

In regards to the Pats, I think he is perfect for the system. He already has experience and a quick, short passing offense and I believe would excel here. He is already pro-ready, but a few years under potentially the greatest QB to ever play the game could really elevate him to another level. I think he could be the guy to carry on the torch after Brady retires. If he is there at #29, I would absolutely take him and let him sit, learn and develop under one of the greatest, and hopefully become one himself.

If anyone has a different opinion on him I am always open to other ideas on why you may not like or want him.