Edelman is a key, believe it or not

Bhelmet said:

Oh please, no. I think he could be a good slot receiver. He just has to learn to cover up and avoid "unnecessary" contact. Edelman would probably good from the backfield (as a receiver) as well. If he is going to do a gadget play, I hope it is one or two times a year.

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Yes, I agree with you…maybe 5 or 6 times a year. But I don't know if he is someone who knows how to absorb/avoid contact. He was a QB before we converted him…he is an athlete but he is just prone to getting hit and often getting hurt.

PittPatriot said:

Yes, I agree with you…maybe 5 or 6 times a year. But I don't know if he is someone who knows how to absorb/avoid contact. He was a QB before we converted him…he is an athlete but he is just prone to getting hit and often getting hurt.

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Unfortunately, if he doesn't learn how to he will not last long.

1. Edelman is not the key to anything.

2. He is a fine utility player, when he is healthy, and should be re-signed. We need a punter returner and Number 4 receiver.

3. To consider Welker and Edelman in the same breath is delusional.

4. If Welker goes, it will be the tight ends who will have to step up their production in the slot.

I'm a big JE supporter but as others have pointed out the only key with him is his health. While he may have a somewhat similar skill set to Welker he is the anti Welker when it comes to durability. Therefore you can't truly rely on him to be a key...

BrickPat said:

I'm a big JE supporter but as others have pointed out the only key with him is his health. While he may have a somewhat similar skill set to Welker he is the anti Welker when it comes to durability. Therefore you can't truly rely on him to be a key...

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Who mentioned "key"?

Bhelmet said:

Who mentioned "key"?

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Re: Edelman is a key, believe it or not

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I smell a rule change

pats will lineup verren , edelman and woodhead at the same time.they claim they need 3 players to replace wes. so pats will play with 13 on offense.

The player i feel bad next offseason is lloyd.next year no1 cb of evey team is going to cover him ....his production is going to drop .cannot wait for lloyd is a bum thread next year.

ctpatsfan77 said:

Re: Edelman is a key, believe it or not

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Yup, overlooked that one.

Why don't we use Edelman on those trick punt formations?

He's actually on the unit, so no need to bring in someone new, just have him move under center

mgteich said:

1. Edelman is not the key to anything.

2. He is a fine utility player, when he is healthy, and should be re-signed. We need a punter returner and Number 4 receiver.

3. To consider Welker and Edelman in the same breath is delusional.

4. If Welker goes, it will be the tight ends who will have to step up their production in the slot.

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Agreed.

I love Edelman's passion on the field, the kid is a fighter and he plays his heart out every game when he's not hurt, which he is often.

But he not even close to the same league as Welker. Welker is one of the most prolific WR's in the history of the game based on his 6 year production here. It's also not plug and play, the Pats tried to sit Welker for no reason earlier this year and the offense clearly suffered.

If the Pats don't re-sign Welker and think Edelman can replace him, what will happen is Edelman will get his 6 catches for 70 yards a game because the Pats force it to him to get his numbers, and we will see articles after September about why the Pats offense is in a slump and losing streak.

ivanvamp said:

I think Edelman may be the key player in the "What is the best way to approach the offseason for the Pats?" issue. If the Pats believe he can give them 80% of what Welker did (not necessarily in terms of production but in terms of effectiveness...and no, those aren't the same things), then they can do it at a fraction of the cost and use Welker's money to shore up the team elsewhere.

I personally think he has the skill not to duplicate what Welker does, because Wes is a unique player. But I do think Edelman can be a very, very effective replacement, at a much lower cost. The issue for him is whether or not he can stay healthy. One of the great things about Welker is that he's a cyborg, apparently. He takes so many huge hits and just keeps on playing. Edelman spends a lot more time injured than Welker does.

But if they had confidence in Edelman - and really, couldn't that be the reason they gave him so much playing time to start the year, instead of Welker...as a sort of "tryout"? - they could then spend the $10 million on defensive help or to add another big-time receiver.

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Love the player. Hate the injuries. In my view, he plays too recklessly and will be perpetually in the trainers room. AS much as I like his game, I can't count on him.

letekro said:

Love the player. Hate the injuries. In my view, he plays too recklessly and will be perpetually in the trainers room. AS much as I like his game, I can't count on him.

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That's the whole problem in a nutshell, the injury concerns. Otherwise, I would think that there could be some decent arguments for adding another WR and having the dropoff (but major cap saving qualities) of allowing Welker to walk.

Even then, I don't think I'd be convinced not to keep Welker for at least another year, but I could at least appreciate more of the debates and nuances of the argument for using that money towards the defense and/or another talented WR.

With Edelman though, there just isn't 1/2 of the reliability as there is with Welker. Wes has that toughness about him, where you just "know" that he's going to do every single thing he can to bounce back up and keep ticking. It's Welker's dependability that is his biggest positive attribute in my opinion. It's what allows him to be the focal point of this offense.

I still think that the 2 players do not go hand in hand with who stays and who leaves, as they are 2 totally different players with different qualities. I certainly hope that they retain both of them, but for different reasons. I also do think that Edelman could potentially take over Welker's role for a short period of time should he require some healing time due to injury, so that does make Edelman valuable as a backup there, but his main purpose is on ST's and as a hopeful development to the WR corps.

ivanvamp said:

I think Edelman may be the key player in the "What is the best way to approach the offseason for the Pats?" issue. If the Pats believe he can give them 80% of what Welker did (not necessarily in terms of production but in terms of effectiveness...and no, those aren't the same things), then they can do it at a fraction of the cost and use Welker's money to shore up the team elsewhere.

I personally think he has the skill not to duplicate what Welker does, because Wes is a unique player. But I do think Edelman can be a very, very effective replacement, at a much lower cost. The issue for him is whether or not he can stay healthy. One of the great things about Welker is that he's a cyborg, apparently. He takes so many huge hits and just keeps on playing. Edelman spends a lot more time injured than Welker does.

But if they had confidence in Edelman - and really, couldn't that be the reason they gave him so much playing time to start the year, instead of Welker...as a sort of "tryout"? - they could then spend the $10 million on defensive help or to add another big-time receiver.

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why would he do in year 5 what he couldn't do in the first 4?



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AndyJohnson said:

why would he do in year 5 what he couldn't do in the first 4?



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It takes time for players to blossom and it appears that Edelman is doing just that. He clearly is important as a backup WR/ST/Utility player. He's a true player and he adds another dimension to the team if he can stay healthy.

He won't replace Welker but he's an important guy to resign. Was Troy Brown any more productive over his first 4 years than Edelman? Not even close. Edleman has been far more productive than Brown based on their first 4 years.

AndyJohnson said:

why would he do in year 5 what he couldn't do in the first 4?

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I agree, his 'explosion' happened this year. Unlikely to see the guy take another step, unless that other step is 'learning how to stay healthy.'

Although, I will say Edelman's broken foot should not be taken against him. Broken bones are largely freak, isolated incidents.

If you take that away, it's really only his concussion and hand injuries from this year which were concerns.

Bhelmet said:

Perhaps, but throw in Woodhead and you get there.

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I'm not even all about Welker being resigned but I do think it would take more than 2 RB and a ST/PR/WR/CB to replace the best slot receive in the NFL.

Last season threads talked about converting Edelman to CB full time now he is Randall Cobb and the key to are offense.

AndyJohnson said:

why would he do in year 5 what he couldn't do in the first 4?



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Do you think if he was given the full-time starting WR role, running basically the same routes as Welker (maybe a few more deep patterns as well), and if he stayed healthy (the biggest issue), he would put up good numbers?

I don't think he would put up the same numbers Welker did, but don't you think he'd put up good numbers? Don't you think he'd put up better numbers than he has the first four years of his career?

He has 69 rec, 714 yds, 10.3 ypc, and 4 td in his career. If he was a starting WR taking the vast majority of snaps, how close to those numbers would he put up in 2013, again, assuming he stayed healthy? What's your guess?

If I had to guess at a comparison between WW and Julian at this stage in their careers assuming healthy seasons, (so far impossible for Julian) I would guess that Julian would have fewer catches than WW but more yards by virtue of having more YAC and by rolling up more total yards. I would guess Julian would have more TD's than WW would have as well.

I wish it were a meaningful discussion but I just don't think you get more than eight games per season out of Julian.

ivanvamp said:

Do you think if he was given the full-time starting WR role, running basically the same routes as Welker (maybe a few more deep patterns as well), and if he stayed healthy (the biggest issue), he would put up good numbers?

I don't think he would put up the same numbers Welker did, but don't you think he'd put up good numbers? Don't you think he'd put up better numbers than he has the first four years of his career?

He has 69 rec, 714 yds, 10.3 ypc, and 4 td in his career. If he was a starting WR taking the vast majority of snaps, how close to those numbers would he put up in 2013, again, assuming he stayed healthy? What's your guess?

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Edelman can put up a 70 catch, 800 yard, 6 TD season. With many more drops and missed plays to get that production. A related drawback is the offense will nose dive and they would barely make the playoffs by forcing the ball just to get this kid his numbers.

CheeseMonkeys said:

It takes time for players to blossom and it appears that Edelman is doing just that. He clearly is important as a backup WR/ST/Utility player. He's a true player and he adds another dimension to the team if he can stay healthy.

He won't replace Welker but he's an important guy to resign. Was Troy Brown any more productive over his first 4 years than Edelman? Not even close. Edleman has been far more productive than Brown based on their first 4 years.

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Agreed. I think Edelman has that 'it' factor that allows him to make big plays for us. He is a must resign but he will be affordable because of his injury history and such. If Edelman could just stay healthy he could put up big numbers for the Pats offense and ST.