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How is it that the Seahawks secondary is so good?


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Dennard is a steal draft pick in my opinion, the trade for Talib was a no brainer. McCourty at safety is pretty good. Don't know why he lost his knack at cornerback position.

The Pats need to replace Chung next year, and hopefully Wilson is better. Mixed feelings on Gregory and Arrington. Dowling is made of balsa wood.
 
Do you guys also remember Nnamdi Asomugha? How did he go from #2 shutdown corner of the league with the raiders and then become mediocre/terrible with the eagles? The only thing changed was the system or philosophy for which whatever reason i believe did not cater to his strengths.
 
Do you guys also remember Nnamdi Asomugha? How did he go from #2 shutdown corner of the league with the raiders and then become mediocre/terrible with the eagles? The only thing changed was the system or philosophy for which whatever reason i believe did not cater to his strengths.

So, if your point is that the Pats secondary coach sucks, I actually agree with you. Sometimes. When they suck. :D
 
They are the number 1 defense in the league as well as the #1 passing defense. How is that not good?

I guess I just wasn't aware of how good they've become -- that, and I wonder if the secondary is helped tremendously by the seven in front of them. Because Ike Taylor is junk. And Ryan Clark is a hard hitter but not great. TP is obviously a terrific safety. Who's the other DB?
 
they're talented, and they have a stable of NYGiants-like pass rushers in front of them.
 
Some general thoughts on what it takes to have a good secondary:

1. At least 2 really good players, with another couple who are solid. For Seattle, Sherman and Thomas are studs, Chanceller and Browning are solid. For Pittsburgh, Polamalu has been the stud. Clark and Taylor are solid and then some. For Baltimore, Reed has been the stud and Lardarius Webb was emerging as one. For San Francisco, Goldson has been a stud and the other 3 starters have been solid.

2. Continuity of personnel is key. Pittsburgh has had Polamalu, Clark and Taylor together forever. Seattle's young secondary has played together for 2 years now, as has San Francisco's. A constant revolving door of players learning the system doesn't work. Injuries are a given and take a toll, but the good secondaries are the ones with some stability and continuity.

3. Continuity of approach is key. Matching personnel to a scheme that fits them, and don't break it. All secondaries play different cover schemes, but there has to be a basic continuity. The Pats seem schizophrenic sometimes between man and zone. They played successful aggressive press-man against Houston, then started out in a soft zone against San Francisco. It's very confusing.

4. Coaching is obviously a factor, as we've seen certain teams be more successful than others at developing young DBs. Again, continuity of of scheme and personnel make it easier to add new players, then when everything is constantly changing.

5. Having a "QB" of the secondary - usually a safety - helps to facilitate communication.

I personally think that the Pats have a good nucleus for a talented secondary. McCourty has the ability to become an Earl Thomas kind of force at FS if he is allowed to stay there and develop his instincts. Talib isn't Richard Sherman, but he's Ike Taylor, or perhaps better. Alfonzo Dennard is very talented. That's a solid start to build from. I haven't discounted Dowling, and guys like Gregory, Wilson and Arrington are much more effective when they are playing defined roles as part of a clearly structured system than when they are being moved all over the place. Moving people around constantly disrupts continuity, creates confusion, puts players out of position relative to their skills, and generally hasn't worked well. I'm very alarmed by this approach, and think that it has ******ed the development of our secondary. JMHO.
 
I think a big difference with our defense compared to those that the majority here covet is that those teams can consistently put pressure on the qb with their defensive front. the patriots are feast or famine in that regard.

take todays game for example chad henne barely saw any pressure so regardless of how well the patriots defensive backs cover it will go unoticed because the defensive front cant hurry the qb. the inconsistency of the pass rush forces the DB's to play too safe and not take the risks that a Ty Law or Asante Samuel would make.

another problem with our secondary is all of our corners are exclusively good at one thing talib is markedly better in man, arrington in zone,mccourty in zone, dennard in man. we need more defensive backs that can execute both approaches. our secondary is only as strong as Kyle Arrington (our weakest link). God i hope Ras IR Dowling gets his ***** together.
 
I think a big difference with our defense compared to those that the majority here covet is that those teams can consistently put pressure on the qb with their defensive front. the patriots are feast or famine in that regard.

take todays game for example chad henne barely saw any pressure so regardless of how well the patriots defensive backs cover it will go unoticed because the defensive front cant hurry the qb. the inconsistency of the pass rush forces the DB's to play too safe and not take the risks that a Ty Law or Asante Samuel would make.
I call it the Rob Ninkovich Effect.
 
They're just pumped and jacked (maybe artificially - aren't two of them up for suspensions?)
 
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Their starting secondary:

CB Sherman - 5th round
CB Browner - UDFA
SS Chancellor - 5th round
FS Thomas - 1st round

Most with under 2 years experience. A good defensive and CB coach can do wonders to coaching them up. That's why BB needs to find talented coaches outside his coaching tree.

This can also be said with the Steelers. Their secondary with the exception of Polamalu are all late draft picks yet the steelers continue to be the top defense year in and year out

No doubt these players are talented but really I attribute a lot of their success to confidence. They all arrived around the same time and grew into starters together, they have confidence in themselves and each other.

I think Browner (6'4) and Sherman (6'3) slipped in the draft because they're both huge which was not the norm in the NFL. When Carroll took them teams where all looking for CB like Revis (5'11), Bailey (6'0), Woodson (6'1) because historically those are the type of athletes that fit.

Give Carroll credit he took advantage of the time at USC to see the future types of athletes that would be coming into the NFL from college.
 

Hang on, wasn't he flagged for that perfectly legal hit? However, upthread I'm reading that the only reason the Seahawks secondary is good is because the Refs are on their side.
 
I think a big difference with our defense compared to those that the majority here covet is that those teams can consistently put pressure on the qb with their defensive front. the patriots are feast or famine in that regard.

take todays game for example chad henne barely saw any pressure so regardless of how well the patriots defensive backs cover it will go unoticed because the defensive front cant hurry the qb. the inconsistency of the pass rush forces the DB's to play too safe and not take the risks that a Ty Law or Asante Samuel would make.

another problem with our secondary is all of our corners are exclusively good at one thing talib is markedly better in man, arrington in zone,mccourty in zone, dennard in man. we need more defensive backs that can execute both approaches. our secondary is only as strong as Kyle Arrington (our weakest link). God i hope Ras IR Dowling gets his ***** together.

Not at all. Just because he's tall and Felger says it doesn't make it the case. He's much better in cover-2 zone than he is in any other system.
 
Some general thoughts on what it takes to have a good secondary:

1. At least 2 really good players, with another couple who are solid. For Seattle, Sherman and Thomas are studs, Chanceller and Browning are solid. For Pittsburgh, Polamalu has been the stud. Clark and Taylor are solid and then some. For Baltimore, Reed has been the stud and Lardarius Webb was emerging as one. For San Francisco, Goldson has been a stud and the other 3 starters have been solid.

2. Continuity of personnel is key. Pittsburgh has had Polamalu, Clark and Taylor together forever. Seattle's young secondary has played together for 2 years now, as has San Francisco's. A constant revolving door of players learning the system doesn't work. Injuries are a given and take a toll, but the good secondaries are the ones with some stability and continuity.

3. Continuity of approach is key. Matching personnel to a scheme that fits them, and don't break it. All secondaries play different cover schemes, but there has to be a basic continuity. The Pats seem schizophrenic sometimes between man and zone. They played successful aggressive press-man against Houston, then started out in a soft zone against San Francisco. It's very confusing.

4. Coaching is obviously a factor, as we've seen certain teams be more successful than others at developing young DBs. Again, continuity of of scheme and personnel make it easier to add new players, then when everything is constantly changing.

5. Having a "QB" of the secondary - usually a safety - helps to facilitate communication.

I personally think that the Pats have a good nucleus for a talented secondary. McCourty has the ability to become an Earl Thomas kind of force at FS if he is allowed to stay there and develop his instincts. Talib isn't Richard Sherman, but he's Ike Taylor, or perhaps better. Alfonzo Dennard is very talented. That's a solid start to build from. I haven't discounted Dowling, and guys like Gregory, Wilson and Arrington are much more effective when they are playing defined roles as part of a clearly structured system than when they are being moved all over the place. Moving people around constantly disrupts continuity, creates confusion, puts players out of position relative to their skills, and generally hasn't worked well. I'm very alarmed by this approach, and think that it has ******ed the development of our secondary. JMHO.

Good analysis. I too feel we are one player away in the secondary to be a force.
 
Quite a few people saw Sherman coming. Not sure how 31 GM's didn't. He and Earl Thomas are studs and their front seven is solid. That's how the Seahawks secondary is better.
 
Pete isn't the GM.

The GM does know how to spot good defensive players.

make no mistake - pete does the drafting for that team. he was a college coach for many years and knows what players to choose based on that experience.

in any event richard sherman was stupid enough to appeal his suspension. the league this week is going to uphold the 4 game ban, and now sherman has to sit for the last game of the regular season and at least 3 playoff games. sherman has been consistently their best secondary guy.
 
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make no mistake - pete does the drafting for that team. he was a college coach for many years and knows what players to choose based on that experience.

in any event richard sherman was stupid enough to appeal his suspension. the league this week is going to uphold the 4 game ban, and now sherman has to sit for the last game of the regular season and at least 3 playoff games. sherman has been consistently their best secondary guy.

Schneider and Carroll obviously have a good relationship and are on the same page in terms of how to build the team. Only 7 players remain from before they took over prior to the 2010 season - and that includes players on IR. Only Red Bryant is really an impact player who predates that regime, and most of the players that predate 2010 don't do so by much.
 
LOL. Seahawks secondary gets away with murder. That always helps when the officials don't throw the flags.

If you watched both the Pats and Niner games against the Seahawks, they held, tugged and bumped throughout the route (see Revis, Darrel). Now imagine a Pats CB doing the same, automatic flag (holding, PI, whatever) and everyone on this board complaining about how they suck. Yes, the refs do help. When one is allowed to hold, it's easier to stay with the receiver.
 
I personally believe that half of their intensity and play-making skills are generated by the home crowd, which pumps up the atmosphere and their ego.

I wish our crowd was half as loud... :rolleyes:
 
If you watched both the Pats and Niner games against the Seahawks, they held, tugged and bumped throughout the route (see Revis, Darrel). Now imagine a Pats CB doing the same, automatic flag (holding, PI, whatever) and everyone on this board complaining about how they suck. Yes, the refs do help. When one is allowed to hold, it's easier to stay with the receiver.

I saw that style of play big time in last night's game. The whole PI vs not PI thing is becoming a major problem refing NFL games.

That said I also saw defenders turn their heads towards the ball, something I too rarely see a Patriots defender do on a contested play.
 
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