PatsFans.com Menu
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans

Emerging PatsFans problem


Status
Not open for further replies.
As the Mayor of Homerville, I will give my opinion on the subject.

1. There is nothing wrong being critical when it is needed.

2. We do have the usual suspect that almost never post unless they have something negative to say. They seem to be the most happy when there is something to be unhappy about.

3. There are ignore features here available and should be used- I wish I could.

4. It makes my blood boil to hear fans booing this team at a game. Many fans of many teams would be more than happy to trade with us.

5. Once again, after a win some people have to jump on the negative rather than just enjoy the win for say- one whole hour.

6. The influence of sports talk radio seems to have made in roads with more fans. The talk radio morons make it seem like a sin that fans are "homers", when the definition of a fan is being a "homer". The talk radio jerks spend 4 hours just nit picking and dwelling on the negative. However if you really listen to them for that time you will find an embarrassing lack of knowledge, a mass of contridictions in what they say, and a deep seated dislike for BB because he's smart enough not to give them anything that they can use against him.

7. You would have to be a blind homer not to see that the defense is underperforming. But there way too many threads that point to a player or two or three or four that "sucks". That's pretty much all they have to offer instead of giving something insightful as to what player is doing/not doing that makes him suck.

I think it's more than that. I think for one thing they never replaced Rodney Harrison as the QB or the DB's. There are only a few special players that had what Rodney had, so it is going to take a long time,if ever to develope a Rodney. In the meatime, a pass rush though more blitzing would help out the DB's. But you have to be careful with the blitz, there are some QB's that will eat it up.

Just a few of one Nut's opinions.

I'm very suspicious of people who aren't homers about some team, or something.

Our secondary has had problems. we have invested picks in the first, second and other rounds, but have been unfortunate that players haven't panned out from injuries, attitudes and other reasons. No one disputes this.

I do think it's naive to think these players are going to read Patsfans posts and decide not to stink as much so I wonder what is accomplished belaboring the obvious. We just picked up an attitude problem player we probably wouldn't usually. If it was easy to turn these type of things around, everybody wuld have a record like...well, like us, or Pitt, GB, NO not many others.

We've got a different looking D again this year, with lotd of talent, but little depth and some strangely huge lionebacker for a 4-3. Let's hope some health in the secondary, and Talib will cause the D to gel.

I personally think the LBS are going to need some help from the secondary with pass defense, but I wouldn't be suprised the pass rush and run D offsets that somewhat.

Somebodt asked, "would you be happy to be 6-3?"...well, yeah. There's lots of other places to be than leading your division with a young and oft injured D and most of them are worse.

I guess some people think it's handed to you, but i've always thought you have to earn it every year and that goes for 2003 - 2004 too.
 
Last edited:
egads.....is there where we have gotten?

what appears to be unreasonable negativity is preceded by what appears to be unreasonable positivity. or as many of you kool-aid guzzlers proclaim: 'in BB we trust'...this blind group think that everything with the pats is as good as it possibly can be and that every move made is for the right reason, but when the move goes bad, gets blamed on the player.

you have a team with a boatload of draft picks and a great cap situation go 27-5 in 2010 and 2011.......suddenly appear completely inept at times.

if it as simple as the result, then why is there anything to talk about? let the results speak and we will all just nod our heads.

However, the moment 'In BB we trust comes out', then any complaint is at least as legitimate.

In general, expectations have been higher the last 10 years or so.

The offense is great, but the defense is hideous......now they are young, but they were young 3 years ago. over that time, the same things that were weaknesses then are weaknesses now. people see the same crap over and over again.......

Sorry, but I will take a top defense over a top offense any time
 
egads.....is there where we have gotten?

what appears to be unreasonable negativity is preceded by what appears to be unreasonable positivity. or as many of you kool-aid guzzlers proclaim: 'in BB we trust'...this blind group think that everything with the pats is as good as it possibly can be and that every move made is for the right reason, but when the move goes bad, gets blamed on the player.

you have a team with a boatload of draft picks and a great cap situation go 27-5 in 2010 and 2011.......suddenly appear completely inept at times.

if it as simple as the result, then why is there anything to talk about? let the results speak and we will all just nod our heads.

However, the moment 'In BB we trust comes out', then any complaint is at least as legitimate.

In general, expectations have been higher the last 10 years or so.

The offense is great, but the defense is hideous......now they are young, but they were young 3 years ago. over that time, the same things that were weaknesses then are weaknesses now. people see the same crap over and over again.......

Sorry, but I will take a top defense over a top offense any time
Thanks for the perfect impetus to get to sleep quickly. Good night!
 
Last edited:
Everyone is entitled to post here. But I have noted a coterie of newer fans who are so bored with simply winning, that they must tear down the efforts of the Team when ever it's not Perfect. And sometimes even then too.

The "perfection cancer" even seems to be spreading to a few established posters too, who should know better.

The particular direction of their current ire is the secondary. But they have criticized the #1 Offense in the league as well. So they are equal opportunity haters.

Now they have taken it into their heads that the Coaches are to blame for having produced only the winning most record in the League over the past five or ten years. They, in their infinite hubris and wisdom, have decided the Coaching is poor; and the rookies and sophomores talentless, because of their lack of Perfection..

Shades of the commentary that led to Paul Brown being fired by the Cleveland Browns, because although he got his tream ot the Championship game, he hadn't won recently, so "the league had passed him by". That was after he created the most successful expansion franchise in history; and would do it once again, after he was let go.

They don't seem to know or remember how fragile it is to Win. Expereinced Pats Fans know very well, watching the teams fielded by Clive Rush, and a host of other failures.

These are "The Goode Olde Days" and they don't know it... or care.

I disagree. Isnt this EXACTLY the right place to voice our opinions? Good or Bad? I wasn't old enough to sit in Shaeffer stadium, but i did sit in the old foxboro stadium and have been a true fan ever since. I went through the Eugene Chung years so i know how fortunate we are to have an ELITE team year in and year out. However, my complaint is that when you have a chance to do AMAZING things, Historic things, you need to make that happen. The Defense has been awful since 2005 and it sucks that if it HAD been better we could be talking about 5(or more) superbowls and an undefeated season. I LOVE this team. LOVE the Patriots, the name on the FRONT of the Jersey. No matter what happens that will never change, but i think we all have the right to vent when we need to. Thats what fans do. Thats why we're here. Hopefully Talib will help the secondary coming down the home stretch and we can get Lombardi #4. GO PATS.
 
Why are we all taking what people say on a message board so seriuosly? Its a place to BS. Some people looking to show their knowledge, others to learn from it. Some just to shoot the $h!t during the game. Like being that annoying guy yelling across the bar :bye2:. I think we all love this team and how great it IS , but what is pushing people over the edge is watching a game and saying " OK , they played well tonight, but the secondary had a bad night. They can fix that". Only to watch the same exact thing happen week after week. That just cant be ignored. As others have said, the window is closing for TB and BB. It seems like there should be some improvement by now. The Pats are such a good team. If this secondary, (players , coaches, whatever the problem may be) could just get over that hump, I think the frustration level would be much lower around here. In the mean time there will be venting here.
 
I disagree. Isnt this EXACTLY the right place to voice our opinions? Good or Bad? I wasn't old enough to sit in Shaeffer stadium, but i did sit in the old foxboro stadium and have been a true fan ever since. I went through the Eugene Chung years so i know how fortunate we are to have an ELITE team year in and year out. However, my complaint is that when you have a chance to do AMAZING things, Historic things, you need to make that happen. The Defense has been awful since 2005 and it sucks that if it HAD been better we could be talking about 5(or more) superbowls and an undefeated season. I LOVE this team. LOVE the Patriots, the name on the FRONT of the Jersey. No matter what happens that will never change, but i think we all have the right to vent when we need to. Thats what fans do. Thats why we're here. Hopefully Talib will help the secondary coming down the home stretch and we can get Lombardi #4. GO PATS.

Since the end of 2005, the Patriots rank 3rd in fewest points allowed.
They rank 2nd in takeways.
They have won the most games 13 more than anyone else. (.781 winning % to .657 for the second best)
To say the defense has been awful since 2005 is about as wrong a statement as could be made.
 
Since the end of 2005, the Patriots rank 3rd in fewest points allowed.
They rank 2nd in takeways.
They have won the most games 13 more than anyone else. (.781 winning % to .657 for the second best)
To say the defense has been awful since 2005 is about as wrong a statement as could be made.

misleading.

what does that have to do with the defense?
 
Since the end of 2005, the Patriots rank 3rd in fewest points allowed.
They rank 2nd in takeways.
They have won the most games 13 more than anyone else. (.781 winning % to .657 for the second best)
To say the defense has been awful since 2005 is about as wrong a statement as could be made.

I'm not doubting this information, but where have you seen the Patriots rank 3rd in points allowed since the end of 2005?
 
Since the end of 2005, the Patriots rank 3rd in fewest points allowed.
They rank 2nd in takeways.
They have won the most games 13 more than anyone else. (.781 winning % to .657 for the second best)
To say the defense has been awful since 2005 is about as wrong a statement as could be made.

Stats don't always tell the whole story. 2006 AFC Championship game, Defense folds, we lose instead of going to the Superbowl to face the bears. 2007 Superbowl Defense allows manning to march down the field and win the game and ruin what would have been "EVER". 2011, Replay of 2007!. 3 SOLID chances with our team in position to WIN the Superbowl and the Defense couldnt HOLD. Where do the patriots RANK in situations in the playoffs where they have the lead at the end of a game??? THAT is the STAT i care about.
 
Sorry, but I will take a top defense over a top offense any time

I think that's the point. You don't get to instantly choose reality. Our top defense was largely drafted by Parcells, plus one top pick and some pickups and is completely gone as of the last few years.

We don't have a choice for an instant championship D, it wasn't instant the first time. This D is what we've got, and we have some good young talent, like we had in the early nineties, that became a dynasty in the 2000s. A QB is such an outsized part of the offense, we've managed to be solid there despite some horrendous WR and RB play at times.

A defense takes talent, health and chemistry which develops over time. You don't get to say 6-3 isn't acceptable, or I want to cut 10 guys and start over every year, not if you want to progress, at least.
 
Last edited:
I disagree. Isnt this EXACTLY the right place to voice our opinions? Good or Bad? I wasn't old enough to sit in Shaeffer stadium, but i did sit in the old foxboro stadium and have been a true fan ever since. I went through the Eugene Chung years so i know how fortunate we are to have an ELITE team year in and year out. However, my complaint is that when you have a chance to do AMAZING things, Historic things, you need to make that happen. The Defense has been awful since 2005 and it sucks that if it HAD been better we could be talking about 5(or more) superbowls and an undefeated season. I LOVE this team. LOVE the Patriots, the name on the FRONT of the Jersey. No matter what happens that will never change, but i think we all have the right to vent when we need to. Thats what fans do. Thats why we're here. Hopefully Talib will help the secondary coming down the home stretch and we can get Lombardi #4. GO PATS.

All the way back to Eugene Chung :rolleyes:
A few teams can say if we had a better QB, or if our offense was a bit better or if we didnt turnt he ball over that time we could have won the super bowl. Brady said it best, he said sometimes they make it look easy but it aint.
I can see your a younger fan and your attitude is exactly what the op is talking about. It is what it is.....
 
The "perfection cancer" even seems to be spreading to a few established posters too, who should know better.

The particular direction of their current ire is the secondary. But they have criticized the #1 Offense in the league as well. So they are equal opportunity haters.

Now they have taken it into their heads that the Coaches are to blame for having produced only the winning most record in the League over the past five or ten years.

I always appreciate your optimism, AZ. I certainly don't want to be lumped into any kind of negative category with any of my critiques, so keep that in mind. You'll rarely if ever hear my whining about the offense, but the pass defense has been atrocious and there are times when the playcalling in suspect too.

I think you make a great point in stating the winning percentage overall etc, and that should never be forgotten; however, I don't blame those who normally have a level head and are offering comments or critiques either.

When you have a 1st and goal at the 2 yard line with a little over 2 minutes to play and are up 3 points, most would assume that it should be a time to milk the clock and at the very worst--force the other team to have to march down the field with very little time remaining in need of a TD to win.

The fact that they did nothing to even milk down the play clock speaks volumes in terms of bad clock management (which has sometimes been a problem in very critical situations) and also poor playcalling.

I personally have no problem with those who want to criticize or critique some of the obvious glaring weaknesses that still have yet to be solved.

There's too much of the whole "chicken little vs homer" debate here. I feel that one can try to be level headed and optimistic, but critical of some of the problems at the same time.

Always enjoy your thoughts.
 
I want to cut 10 guys and start over every year, not if you want to progress, at least.
That's exactly what Bill Belichick did with the New England Patriots defense for the 2012 NFL Season:

Andre Carter
Mark Anderson
Albert Haynesworth
Shaun Ellis
Mike Wright
Gerard Warren
Gary Guyton
Leigh Bodden
James Ihedigbo
Sergio Brown

The vast majority of the aforementioned New England Patriots players were on the 53 man roster at the start of the 2011 NFL Season.
 
That's exactly what Bill Belichick did with the New England Patriots defense for the 2012 NFL Season:

Andre Carter
Mark Anderson
Albert Haynesworth
Shaun Ellis
Mike Wright
Gerard Warren
Gary Guyton
Leigh Bodden
James Ihedigbo
Sergio Brown

The vast majority of the aforementioned New England Patriots players were on the 53 man roster at the start of the 2011 NFL Season.

Every player you mentioned, except Anderson, was either injured, marginal or a flop. that's just the average turnover a team without good talent has.

We spent two first rounders on defense, that's not blowing things up, that's attrition. More than makes up for Anderson, who probably benefited from having Carter on the other side.
 
Last edited:
Every player you mentioned, except Anderson, was either injured, marginal or a flop. that's just the average turnover a team without good talent has.

We spent two first rounders on defense, that's not blowing things up, that's attrition. More than makes up for Anderson, who probably benefited from having Carter on the other side.

Very fair point, but until we pull the lever and the 'right' grouping of players comes up, it's going to be more of the same.

This offseason it will be players like Brace, Chung, Dowling (all THREE 2nd round pick failures), Arrington, and Gregory (a "bigger" FA signing) who are all under major scrutiny and in some form of danger to being let go.

Of course 4 of those 5 players are in the secondary too, and that coincides with what the biggest weakness on the team is, but you have to start to wonder if/when the secondary will be able to become improved, and exactly "how many" higher draft picks/FA signings will be wasted in the process.

The latest gaffe is losing mid round draft picks in rounds 4, 5, and 6---although Talib is yet to be determined.
 
Last edited:
I think that's the point. You don't get to instantly choose reality. Our top defense was largely drafted by Parcells, plus one top pick and some pickups and is completely gone as of the last few years.

We don't have a choice for an instant championship D, it wasn't instant the first time. This D is what we've got, and we have some good young talent, like we had in the early nineties, that became a dynasty in the 2000s. A QB is such an outsized part of the offense, we've managed to be solid there despite some horrendous WR and RB play at times.

A defense takes talent, health and chemistry which develops over time. You don't get to say 6-3 isn't acceptable, or I want to cut 10 guys and start over every year, not if you want to progress, at least.

I agree with all that you wrote. I will add in relation to the bolded that it also takes commitment which I'm not sure is there. By that I mean that if you want a top NFL defense, you have to commit whole-heartedly to it as the Texans have done. You need to hire a quality DC, you need an aggressive defensive gameplan and you need both high draft picks and the best free agents to make it happen. The Texans have proven it's possible but I don't think BB will go in that direction. All he's looking for is a defense that keeps us in games and allows our offense to win them. That's fine for the regular season, I'm just not convinced it's a recipe for success in the post-season.
 
Every player you mentioned, except Anderson, was either injured, marginal or a flop. that's just the average turnover a team without good talent has.

We spent two first rounders on defense, that's not blowing things up, that's attrition. More than makes up for Anderson, who probably benefited from having Carter on the other side.
Meanwhile, the following New England Patriots defensive players will be unrestricted free agents in calendar year 2013:

Ron Brace
Trevor Scott
Tracy White
Niko Koutouvides
Aqib Talib
Kyle Arrington
Marquice Cole
Derrick Martin
Patrick Chung

In addition, one has to question the durability of cornerback Ras-I Dowling and the quality of performance of safety Steve Gregory to date.
 
I agree with all that you wrote. I will add in relation to the bolded that it also takes commitment which I'm not sure is there. By that I mean that if you want a top NFL defense, you have to commit whole-heartedly to it as the Texans have done. You need to hire a quality DC, you need an aggressive defensive gameplan and you need both high draft picks and the best free agents to make it happen. The Texans have proven it's possible but I don't think BB will go in that direction. All he's looking for is a defense that keeps us in games and allows our offense to win them. That's fine for the regular season, I'm just not convinced it's a recipe for success in the post-season.

I wouldnt make that assumption, Im sure he'd love to have the #1 defense in the league and Im sure hes trying to field the best D he can, he just hasnt found the right combination right now but I think he will, in the meantime as long as the offense scores more than the defense, that gives us a W.
 
I wouldnt make that assumption, Im sure he'd love to have the #1 defense in the league and Im sure hes trying to field the best D he can, he just hasnt found the right combination right now but I think he will, in the meantime as long as the offense scores more than the defense, that gives us a W.

I was thinking the exact same thing myself too, and I have a strong feeling that we will see more aggressiveness (some would call it desperation) in the offseason again this year. That may mean anything from a change to DC, to additional draft picks and more money/chances spent in free agency.

One would think that this is likely driving coach Belichick mad, as his focus had always been more defensive minded in the past.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.


Tuesday Patriots Notebook 4/23: News and Notes
MORSE: Final 7 Round Patriots Mock Draft, Matthew Slater News
Bruschi’s Proudest Moment: Former LB Speaks to MusketFire’s Marshall in Recent Interview
Monday Patriots Notebook 4/22: News and Notes
Patriots News 4-21, Kraft-Belichick, A.J. Brown Trade?
MORSE: Patriots Draft Needs and Draft Related Info
Friday Patriots Notebook 4/19: News and Notes
TRANSCRIPT: Eliot Wolf’s Pre-Draft Press Conference 4/18/24
Thursday Patriots Notebook 4/18: News and Notes
Wednesday Patriots Notebook 4/17: News and Notes
Back
Top