Emerging PatsFans problem

I totally agree with original poster. I'm sick of it. Of course there is room on a board for criticism, but the tone is so damn whiny and self righteous.

Imagine a kid whose parents bought a new BMW who then bad mouths his parents for cheaping out for not getting the 7 class series or calls them dumbasses for getting him a boring color instead of the red he wanted.

This team is BY FAR the best in the league over the past 10 years. Not just in terms of overall record. Not just in the post season. Week after week. New England Patriots Trended NFL Power Rankings - ESPN

Just like the kid in the statement above, I can either roll my eyes at the arrogance and entitledness (while wanting to punch them in the face) or ignore it. Freedom of speech, it's just a board, etc... but I'm totally with the OP, I wouldn't want to spend much time with these people... THAT might be a problem to the board, IF others feel the same way.

loofasisgeek said:

I totally agree with original poster. I'm sick of it. Of course there is room on a board for criticism, but the tone is so damn whiny and self righteous.

Imagine a kid whose parents bought a new BMW who then bad mouths his parents for cheaping out for not getting the 7 class series or calls them dumbasses for getting him a boring color instead of the red he wanted.

This team is BY FAR the best in the league over the past 10 years. Not just in terms of overall record. Not just in the post season. Week after week. New England Patriots Trended NFL Power Rankings - ESPN

Just like the kid in the statement above, I can either roll my eyes at the arrogance and entitledness (while wanting to punch them in the face) or ignore it. Freedom of speech, it's just a board, etc... but I'm totally with the OP, I wouldn't want to spend much time with these people... THAT might be a problem to the board, IF others feel the same way.

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What if the rich kid got a BMW, but it could never go over 50 miles per hour, and the breaks fail sometimes, wouldn't he be right to complain about it? Because that's what I feel is happening with this team. The potential is all there, but if you see the talent, and set your expectations accordingly, aren't you allowed to be frustrated when the results on the field don't accurately reflect all that? Having a BMW is great, but if it never seems to accelerate as much as it needs to, and you are in constant danger of the brakes giving out, crashing you into a tree, then maybe you shouldn't be considered spoiled just for having the car in the first place.

Gumby said:

In sum; I will continue to ENJOY PATSFANS.COM as a free-choice consumer, and REFUSE TO BE DICTATED TO by any self-righteous opinion police.

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What more is there to say? There are SO many threads/posts about other fans' threads and posts, and I've never understood one of them. Talk about the game, not each other. Sheesh.

AzPatsFan said:

Everyone is entitled to post here. But I have noted a coterie of newer fans who are so bored with simply winning, that they must tear down the efforts of the Team when ever it's not Perfect. And sometimes even then too.

The "perfection cancer" even seems to be spreading to a few established posters too, who should know better.

The particular direction of their current ire is the secondary. But they have criticized the #1 Offense in the league as well. So they are equal opportunity haters.

Now they have taken it into their heads that the Coaches are to blame for having produced only the winning most record in the League over the past five or ten years. They, in their infinite hubris and wisdom, have decided the Coaching is poor; and the rookies and sophomores talentless, because of their lack of Perfection..

Shades of the commentary that led to Paul Brown being fired by the Cleveland Browns, because although he got his tream ot the Championship game, he hadn't won recently, so "the league had passed him by". That was after he created the most successful expansion franchise in history; and would do it once again, after he was let go.

They don't seem to know or remember how fragile it is to Win. Expereinced Pats Fans know very well, watching the teams fielded by Clive Rush, and a host of other failures.

These are "The Goode Olde Days" and they don't know it... or care.

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This is so embarrassing....it's actually funny.
There is this coterie of fans who are such team toadies it's LOL funny. This group is quite out of place following any professional sports team. They belongs on the sidelines of pee wee and pop warner games with their pompoms and their blinding love. They belong at Justin Bieber concerts where they can yell and scream and cry their expressions of teen frenzied devotion to Tommy and Billy and Robert.
A decade of success for Boston sports teams has brought a "softening" (I'm being kind, an accurate description of this coterie would get me thrown off this site) within certain elements of this fan base.

The 2012 Patriots have a god awful defense and an offense that sizzles early but fizzles in the 4th qtr and can't close out games. This Patriot team is one dropped NY Jet pass and one blown Buffalo Bill passing route from being a .500 team.

Deal with it kids.

RayClay said:

I ignore them.

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As I said before, the bigger problem is that people don't just simply do this.

How many threads are there going to be whining about other fans. Just root for your team and discuss what you feel is relevant. You're only fueling the fire otherwise.

RodThePat said:

What if the rich kid got a BMW, but it could never go over 50 miles per hour, and the breaks fail sometimes, wouldn't he be right to complain about it? Because that's what I feel is happening with this team. The potential is all there, but if you see the talent, and set your expectations accordingly, aren't you allowed to be frustrated when the results on the field don't accurately reflect all that? Having a BMW is great, but if it never seems to accelerate as much as it needs to, and you are in constant danger of the brakes giving out, crashing you into a tree, then maybe you shouldn't be considered spoiled just for having the car in the first place.

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The car you describe is a totally worthless piece of junk. That's a basement dwelling team - Jags or Browns, say. The car you described would be out of the playoffs already. The Patriots lead their division, are SECOND in the conference in points differential. Your attitude is EXACTLY what the problem is. Whaa, whaa.

Another option is to throw a hissy fit, write a long post telling everyone why you're leaving, and then come back a few weeks later like a little baby, tail between legs.

But only a real schmuck would do that.

loofasisgeek said:

The car you describe is a totally worthless piece of junk. That's a basement dwelling team - Jags or Browns, say. The car you described would be out of the playoffs already. The Patriots lead their division, are SECOND in the conference in points differential. Your attitude is EXACTLY what the problem is. Whaa, whaa.

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Yeah, I consider the Patriots on the same level as the Jags or Browns. This team has more talent than about 28 others in the league, expecting them to perform like they are among the top 4 best teams in the NFL is being a crybaby. I get it now.

If I told you at the beggining of the season that we'd be 6-3 after 9 games, coming off a nailbiter at home against Buffalo, would you take it, or would you be disappointed with that, considering the potential this team has? Don't be hypocritical on you answer.

PATSYLICIOUS said:

As I said before, the bigger problem is that people don't just simply do this.

How many threads are there going to be whining about other fans. Just root for your team and discuss what you feel is relevant. You're only fueling the fire otherwise.

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I havent' seen a ton of threads on this and if they're out there I have never posted to one.

Part of being in a community is speaking up when the you think the community is heading in the wrong direction - not to point of being shrill, but not turtling up and hoping it all just goes away either. Nothing wrong with telling people that you think they are out of line. IMO especially when you think someone is whining and acting entitled. In that case you can say, "I don't want to hear it."

RayClay said:

People should really be forced to root for a team like Buffalo that kicks away wins. Get a little perspective maybe.

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We will have the opportunity to do that after TB retires…and certainly after BB steps down. Until then, I'd like to keep this lightening in a bottle thing we have going as long as possible. I don't want to be sitting around 10 years from now thinking…"shoot, how the heck did we ONLY win 3 SB and let TB's prime years get away without winning more?"

As the Mayor of Homerville, I will give my opinion on the subject.

1. There is nothing wrong being critical when it is needed.

2. We do have the usual suspect that almost never post unless they have something negative to say. They seem to be the most happy when there is something to be unhappy about.

3. There are ignore features here available and should be used- I wish I could.

4. It makes my blood boil to hear fans booing this team at a game. Many fans of many teams would be more than happy to trade with us.

5. Once again, after a win some people have to jump on the negative rather than just enjoy the win for say- one whole hour.

6. The influence of sports talk radio seems to have made in roads with more fans. The talk radio morons make it seem like a sin that fans are "homers", when the definition of a fan is being a "homer". The talk radio jerks spend 4 hours just nit picking and dwelling on the negative. However if you really listen to them for that time you will find an embarrassing lack of knowledge, a mass of contridictions in what they say, and a deep seated dislike for BB because he's smart enough not to give them anything that they can use against him.

7. You would have to be a blind homer not to see that the defense is underperforming. But there way too many threads that point to a player or two or three or four that "sucks". That's pretty much all they have to offer instead of giving something insightful as to what player is doing/not doing that makes him suck.

I think it's more than that. I think for one thing they never replaced Rodney Harrison as the QB or the DB's. There are only a few special players that had what Rodney had, so it is going to take a long time,if ever to develope a Rodney. In the meatime, a pass rush though more blitzing would help out the DB's. But you have to be careful with the blitz, there are some QB's that will eat it up.

Just a few of one Nut's opinions.

PittPatriot said:

We will have the opportunity to do that after TB retires…and certainly after BB steps down. Until then, I'd like to keep this lightening in a bottle thing we have going as long as possible. I don't want to be sitting around 10 years from now thinking…"shoot, how the heck did we ONLY win 3 SB and let TB's prime years get away without winning more?"

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On the "Football Life" about Jimmy Johnson, Michael Irvin said that whenever he gets together with Aikman, the 1st thing they say to each other is that they should have 5, not 3, if Jimmy had stuck around.

At the same time, it's funny to hear Pats fans talk about "only" 3 SB's, or any fanbase for that matter.

To the OP:

Unfortunately, there is a critical mass of fans on this Board who think that the NFL commenced operations on September 23, 2001, the date of the fortuitous (but still unfortunate..."unfortunate" because it resulted in a life threatening injury to one of the franchise's best players) hit by Mo Lewis on Drew Bledsoe that ushered in the Brady era and the Patriot Dynasty of the 2000's.

If the OP sticks around, he will also find such delights as threads about the GOAT that start with Montana and end with Brady/Peyton (What? Baugh, Luckman, Starr and Unitas never laced 'em up on Sunday afternoon?).

So, my advice? Don't read idiotic or juvenile posts. For "repeat offenders," there is an "Ignore" button.

RhodyPatriot said:

This is so embarrassing....it's actually funny.
There is this coterie of fans who are such team toadies it's LOL funny. This group is quite out of place following any professional sports team. They belongs on the sidelines of pee wee and pop warner games with their pompoms and their blinding love. They belong at Justin Bieber concerts where they can yell and scream and cry their expressions of teen frenzied devotion to Tommy and Billy and Robert.
A decade of success for Boston sports teams has brought a "softening" (I'm being kind, an accurate description of this coterie would get me thrown off this site) within certain elements of this fan base.

The 2012 Patriots have a god awful defense and an offense that sizzles early but fizzles in the 4th qtr and can't close out games. This Patriot team is one dropped NY Jet pass and one blown Buffalo Bill passing route from being a .500 team.

Deal with it kids.

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Were you going for ironic, or did you stumble onto that mark with actual sentiment?

If your expectation of a hardcore fan base is that it embodies the beleaguered spirit of the "they will find a way to lose" Red Sox fans counting decades since the last title, then the OP would fail by your standards. Some would call an appreciation for the current version of the team 'perspective' because those fans actually remember the lean years and can contrast the current level of play to those years.

I don't read the OP as a call to refrain from criticizing legitimate issues on defense, or any other issue for that matter. It doesn't take a 'hardcore' fan to watch this pass defense gouged game after game and identify numerous issues. The "can't close out" on offense complaint is a little goofy given the point totals and lack of 3-and-outs over 9 games. If you are byatching over the lack of scoring by the highest scoring team in the NFL, then you probably grouse just to grouse. Make it easy on yourself and just set a round 50 point expectation per game, and complain when the Pats don't reach it. Hardcore fans like yourself remember well when the great teams of Patriots past were able to do that every week.

The OP was directed to the tone of the board, which has become more about 'venting' and complaining every single week about a team that is 6-3 than it has positive sentiment about the fact the team is winning. Few other fan bases would understand how a team coming off a Super Bowl loss, which presently leads its division, is this lousy in the eyes of its fans every week. There are obviously fans with blinders who believe the team is playing perfectly (it isn't) or others who believe that there are other NFL teams just too good for the Pats to beat on a given Sunday (there aren't in this NFL), so my comment on the OP is that these exercises in fandom are futile because of these different types.

And thank you for the laugh. Your response and description of the hardcore fan base is LOL funny itself. May all of us in the 3.5 decades or under club of Boston sports fandom aspire to your battle weary vantage, Old Man River.

Fball said:

On the "Football Life" about Jimmy Johnson, Michael Irvin said that whenever he gets together with Aikman, the 1st thing they say to each other is that they should have 5, not 3, if Jimmy had stuck around.

At the same time, it's funny to hear Pats fans talk about "only" 3 SB's, or any fanbase for that matter.

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Jimmy would have "stuck around" if Jerry Jones, despite other redeeming qualities, didn't act like an idiot in Johnson's case; Jones gets a "pass" for how he treated Tom Landry, because it was probably time for a change, though he didn't treat the HOF HC very well when he took over as owner.

However, while Johnson wasn't without fault in his confrontation with Jones, it was nonetheless up to Jones to be a "grownup" and have the long term interests of his franchise and fans at heart; even Barry Switzer, a 64--40 fish out of water in his four years in the NFL, was able to win a Super Bowl with that talent (never forget that the 93 and 94 Cowboys straddled the end of the old era and the beginning of the Cap/FA era in the NFL); Irvin is right that they likely would won a couple more with Johnson.

Unfortunately, from my (admittedly distant) observations of Jones over the decades, I think his personality is warped to the extent that he would rather have won his battles of wills with Landry and Johnson than have two or three more Lombardi's in his closet.

PatsFanSince74 said:

To the OP:

Unfortunately, there is a critical mass of fans on this Board who think that the NFL commenced operations on September 23, 2001, the date of the fortuitous (but still unfortunate..."unfortunate" because it resulted in a life threatening injury to one of the franchise's best players) hit by Mo Lewis on Drew Bledsoe that ushered in the Brady era and the Patriot Dynasty of the 2000's.

If the OP sticks around, he will also find such delights as threads about the GOAT that start with Montana and end with Brady/Peyton (What? Baugh, Luckman, Starr and Unitas never laced 'em up on Sunday afternoon?).

So, my advice? Don't read idiotic or juvenile posts. For "repeat offenders," there is an "Ignore" button.

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It's obvious we are very fortunate as a fanbase. The Patriots have had consistent success for 11 years. But with that, comes expectations. We can't go into a season in 2012 the same way we would've gone in 1992. Then, 8 wins was a reason to celebrate, now, winning less than 2 playoff games is unacceptable. That comes with the territory of being very good/great year in and year out. Expectations change, you can't approach every season and every team with the exact same mentality. So, yes, from 2001 to this day we are effectively in a completely separate era of Patriots football. You can't analyze what's happening by taking into consideration previous years of misfortune.

Once Brady and Belichick retire expectations will be reset, and I guarantee you will people won't be complaining as much about a win as they are now. This line of thinking that the behavior of the fanbase won't ever change is a fallacy. Expectations drive fan behavior, it's always been that way. In 2007 we lost the Superbowl after going 16-0, was anyone satisfied with the result? Looking back, I think anyone here will agree that was an extremely enjoyable season, but is 2007 the year people go back to for their great Patriots memories? Very unlikely. They had the best team in the league, and they didn't win the championship. The result was worse than the expectations set. On the other hand, do you have any doubt Arizona Cardinals fans look at their 2009 season with a sense of immense joy, to this day, despite having not only lost the Superbowl, but done so in the last seconds of the game? Nobody would've picked that team to go that far, and that's a huge factor in determining fan satisfaction.

What I'm saying is, you can't take the terrible seasons the Patriots had before 2001 and use them as a barometer of how the fanbase should behave. Yes, they win consistently now, and they didn't back then, but we are in another reality, with different goals and different expectations. What was reason to celebrate then, probably won't be now, and what was received with leniency by the fanbase then, won't be now.

PatsFanSince74 said:

Jimmy would have "stuck around" if Jerry Jones, despite other redeeming qualities, didn't act like an idiot in Johnson's case; Jones gets a "pass" for how he treated Tom Landry, because it was probably time for a change, though he didn't treat the HOF HC very well when he took over as owner.

However, while Johnson wasn't without fault in his confrontation with Jones, it was nonetheless up to Jones to be a "grownup" and have the long term interests of his franchise and fans at heart; even Barry Switzer, a 64--40 fish out of water in his four years in the NFL, was able to win a Super Bowl with that talent (never forget that the 93 and 94 Cowboys straddled the end of the old era and the beginning of the Cap/FA era in the NFL); Irvin is right that they likely would won a couple more with Johnson.

Unfortunately, from my (admittedly distant) observations of Jones over the decades, I think his personality is warped to the extent that he would rather have won his battles of wills with Landry and Johnson than have two or three more Lombardi's in his closet.

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I agree that they would have won 4-5 at least, including probably the feat of winning 4 in a row. My observations of Jones are distant also, but I doubt he'd really trade winning those battles w/ championships. I don't think he sees the correlation between the 2, and I think he sees himself as main reason for their success, with the coaching being basically interchangeable.

His ownership of the 'Boys kind of dooms them, imo. He has no problem building talented rosters, but he seems afraid to hire the kind of coach that is needed to turn that roster into a SB contender.

AzPatsFan said:

Everyone is entitled to post here. But I have noted a coterie of newer fans who are so bored with simply winning, that they must tear down the efforts of the Team when ever it's not Perfect. And sometimes even then too.

The "perfection cancer" even seems to be spreading to a few established posters too, who should know better.

The particular direction of their current ire is the secondary. But they have criticized the #1 Offense in the league as well. So they are equal opportunity haters.

Now they have taken it into their heads that the Coaches are to blame for having produced only the winning most record in the League over the past five or ten years. They, in their infinite hubris and wisdom, have decided the Coaching is poor; and the rookies and sophomores talentless, because of their lack of Perfection..

Shades of the commentary that led to Paul Brown being fired by the Cleveland Browns, because although he got his tream ot the Championship game, he hadn't won recently, so "the league had passed him by". That was after he created the most successful expansion franchise in history; and would do it once again, after he was let go.

They don't seem to know or remember how fragile it is to Win. Expereinced Pats Fans know very well, watching the teams fielded by Clive Rush, and a host of other failures.

These are "The Goode Olde Days" and they don't know it... or care.

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:ditto::agree::yeahthat:

I obviously agree. Nothing short of winning every game 50-0 will satisfy a certain group of posters here. I think a number of old timers have left over the last 3-4 years because of it. Ex. What ever happened to Box'O Rocks? Haven't heard from him in over a year it seams.

borg said:

What meanies!!! I bet these same bad seeds forced the cancellations of the Andy Griffith Show and Lassie.

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Well to be perfectly honest Lassie sucked. She had limited range as an actress, and her dialogue was repetitive. I don't know how that one trick pony show lasted so long.

PATSNUTme said:

The influence of sports talk radio seems to have made in roads with more fans. The talk radio morons make it seem like a sin that fans are "homers", when the definition of a fan is being a "homer". The talk radio jerks spend 4 hours just nit picking and dwelling on the negative. However if you really listen to them for that time you will find an embarrassing lack of knowledge, a mass of contridictions in what they say, and a deep seated dislike for BB because he's smart enough not to give them anything that they can use against him.

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Let's not forget that sports talk radio intentionally emphasizes the negative to stir the pot and generate controversy/callers/discussion. Any knowledgeable fan can see how they succeed in making mountains of molehills by pandering to listeners who are pretty ignorant of what pro football and the NFL are all about. That spoiled and ignorant contingent easily gets sucked in to believing that this artificially negative view of the team is reality, DESPITE going 6-3 so far and leading the division.

Regardless of how poorly the Pats defense performs at times, folks need to understand that this league has changed even in the last five years. AND, how much teams change over the course of what is a long season. I think BB needs to be taken at his word when he says that winning in the NFL is difficult and he's happy whenever/however that happens, regardless of style points.

I agree with the OP. We need to be happy with what we've got, because it's not going to last forever.