Alfonzo Dennard

supafly said:

I agree that there are always good prospects in the UDFA game, and you named some great ones.

It's funny that V.Cruz was going to be outright cut in the preseason last year until he had a great game against...Rex Ryan's GD Jets of all teams.

I can't stand the damn salsa dance either, and I thought that the bracket coverage with Arrington in the slot last year in the SB was tremendously effective with 4 catches for 25 yds.

It isn't the fact that we lost to the same team in the SB that keeps me up at night, it's how it was done.

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I agree. The similarities to that and 18-1 are haunting. But it's okay. Because this year when we win the Superbowl it won't even be close :rocker:

Let's be honest. Pats have been terrible at drafting WRs over the past decade. If we had given up draft picks for Percy Harvin earlier in the season when he was rumored to want out of Minny I think we would be sitting pretty right about now. But that's not going to happen now that he's on fire.

It looks like we are going to see what a CB trio of Dennard, Arrington, and Dowling can do. At least Dowling is healthy now right? McCourty helps patch the gaping hole at safety for now. We will need more secondary help next offseason, but at least there is some room for improvement with the youngsters. Most of these guys in the secondary have played less than 2 years in the NFL. Dennard is a true rookie and Dowling basically redshirted his first season due to injury.

supafly said:

Not sure what you necessarily mean here?

There have been plenty of young WR's who have been just fine for any one of the other 31 NFL teams.

It's due to the lack of successful drafting at the position that we're in this situation, not because there aren't any to have out there....

Any player who isn't considered a slow smurf under 6 feet or so would do just fine, but they'd have to likely do one of 3 things to make that happen:

1. Actually hit on a WR draft pick

2. Trade for someone somewhat productive or pick up another teams' castoff hoping to incorporate them into the scheme

3. Simplify the current system here

Since I don't see any of those likely to happen any time soon, I will go back to my original statement that you seem so perplexed by...

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ATippett56 said:

Like those wide receivers grow on trees.

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Unfortunately, PitsDirt & Bal'more have had less of a problem finding those WRs than Bill has.

VJCPatriot said:

At least Dowling is healthy now right?

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Glas-IR was not spotted at a walk-through practice yesterday. Here we go again...

VJCPatriot said:

Let's be honest. Pats have been terrible at drafting WRs over the past decade.

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That is incorrect. Before I go into the draft picks at WR, the Patriots do not make WR a priority in the draft, They have been great at giving up picks for wide receivers like Wes Welker (a 2nd and a 7th pick) and Randy Moss (a 4th round pick). That's a tremendous use of draft picks.

In the last 10 years in the draft, the Patriots have used no 1st round picks on WRs. Nor should they. In five of those years they didn't select a WR in the draft at all.

Since 2002, they've used three #2s on WRs - Super Bowl MVP Deion Branch, Bethel Johnson with the 45th pick and Chad Jackson with the 36th pick. One for three

After the second round, they've drafted some guys who stuck and some who didn't. The ones that did included David Givens, Matthew Slater, Julian Edelman, and Brandon Tate who was better than Ochocinco. Two that didn't included PK Sam, and Taylor Price in 2010.

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/graphics/04_28_11_draft_database/

Overall, the Pats have had more hits than misses at WR.

goheels22002 said:

That is incorrect. Before I go into the draft picks at WR, the Patriots do not make WR a priority in the draft, They have been great at giving up picks for wide receivers like Wes Welker (a 2nd and a 7th pick) and Randy Moss (a 4th round pick). That's a tremendous use of draft picks.

In the last 10 years in the draft, the Patriots have used no 1st round picks on WRs. Nor should they. In five of those years they didn't select a WR in the draft at all.

Since 2002, they've used three #2s on WRs - Super Bowl MVP Deion Branch, Bethel Johnson with the 45th pick and Chad Jackson with the 36th pick. One for three

After the second round, they've drafted some guys who stuck and some who didn't. The ones that did included David Givens, Matthew Slater, Julian Edelman, and Brandon Tate who was better than Ochocinco. Two that didn't included PK Sam, and Taylor Price in 2010.

Patriots draft database, 2000 - 2010 - Boston.com

Overall, the Pats have had more hits than misses at WR.

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The two best receivers they have drafted are an undersized outside receiver who exceeded 818 receiving yards once in his career, and a big possession guy who never caught 60 passes and was out of football by age 26. You can't honestly tell me you count Edelman, Slater and Tate among "hits". In 12 years as Patriots head coach, Bill has had a horrible track record at drafting wide receivers, this is a fact. And yes, they don't usually draft wideouts highly, but Antonio Brown was a 6th round pick, Mike Wallace was a 3rd rounder, both Jordy Nelson and Greg Jennings were 2nd rounders... There are PLENTY of pretty good WRs out there who weren't high first round picks.

I think Dennard has shown some promise as being someone who plays the ball...I remember the denver game where Manning targeted him 2-3 times and each time he made a play on the ball...even on plays where he has gotten beat, You still see him turning for the ball..CB's are going to get burnt at times, but at least he was in position to make a play...instead of seeing our DB's head turned away from the ball.

while it wasnt particularly effective last week, moving McCourty to safety might work out in the long run...McCourty can play downhill and play the ball...but IMO it hinges if Ras-I-Dowling can stay healthy

I dont like Arrington as the #2..he has been struggling mightily this year....

goheels22002 said:

That is incorrect. Before I go into the draft picks at WR, the Patriots do not make WR a priority in the draft, They have been great at giving up picks for wide receivers like Wes Welker (a 2nd and a 7th pick) and Randy Moss (a 4th round pick). That's a tremendous use of draft picks.

In the last 10 years in the draft, the Patriots have used no 1st round picks on WRs. Nor should they. In five of those years they didn't select a WR in the draft at all.

Since 2002, they've used three #2s on WRs - Super Bowl MVP Deion Branch, Bethel Johnson with the 45th pick and Chad Jackson with the 36th pick. One for three

After the second round, they've drafted some guys who stuck and some who didn't. The ones that did included David Givens, Matthew Slater, Julian Edelman, and Brandon Tate who was better than Ochocinco. Two that didn't included PK Sam, and Taylor Price in 2010.

Patriots draft database, 2000 - 2010 - Boston.com

Overall, the Pats have had more hits than misses at WR.

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More hits than misses at WR?

You honestly can't be serious. You just can't be.

One year in 2007 with a couple of trades does not equal a successful approach to choosing WR's.

How many times have they wasted draft picks on the position? How many times have they picked up guys like Donald Hayes, Joey Galloway, Chad Ochocinco, Torry Holt, etc, etc in trades or free agency?

They have continued to waste precious draft picks, many such as the following players in the top 3 rounds on the WR position like: Chad Jackson, Bethel Johnson, Brandon Tate, and Taylor Price.

There have been others who they have selected like PK Sam, etc who weren't necessarily the end of the world due to wasted picks, but they certainly didn't work out either.

Your "hits" as far as the draft go are including some crazy names for an actually productive WR for this team (or any team for that matter):

--Matthew Slater??

--Julian Edelman??

Those are nothing more than special teams guys. They aren't actual WR's. Edelman certainly didn't deserve the "bubble status" talk from so many in the off-season, but I have my doubts as to whether or not anyone will consider him a successful WR on any level.

So that narrows it down to 2 successful draft picks: Givens and Branch in 2002 (10+ years ago).

I'm not sure what kind of crazy math you're doing, but "more hits than misses" is not going to work with many people, if any at all around here.

RodThePat said:

In 12 years as Patriots head coach, Bill has had a horrible track record at drafting wide receivers, this is a fact.

And yes, they don't usually draft wideouts highly, but Antonio Brown was a 6th round pick, Mike Wallace was a 3rd rounder, both Jordy Nelson and Greg Jennings were 2nd rounders...

There are PLENTY of pretty good WRs out there who weren't high first round picks.

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Not to mention UDFA's too. Danny Amendola and Victor Cruz come to mind just off the top of my head.

No one is criticizing them for not spending high picks on WRs, just criticizing their WR choices in general.

Whether it's been a lower round pick, a UDFA, or a successful high round pick, other teams seem to do just fine as a whole.

captain stone said:

Glas-IR was not spotted at a walk-through practice yesterday...

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...or today either. Just sayin'.

DRAFTING RECEIVERS
I agree that Branch and Givens were great picks. As you say that was a long time ago. Since then, the only players that have worked out are the two special teasers (three if you count PK Sam).

ACQUIRING RECEIVERS - TRADE AND FREE AGENCY
This is more hit or miss than the draft. Most acquisitions from other teams don't last very long; we bring in 3 or 4 and keep 1. This is true of any position. I've fine with that. I think that Belichick has done very well getting receivers from other teams. We have had one of the very best passing games in the league with these receivers. Obviously Moss, Welker and Lloyd stand out. Obviously, there will be lots of misses with the approaches of making top receivers out of other teams' rejects or misfits.

In the end, our passing game depends on tight ends and running backs for half the targets and production. There is nothing wrong with this. This strategy greatly reduces the need for top level wide receivers.

BOTTOM LINE
Belichick has chosen to use significant resources to acquire wide receivers. The primary focus (and success) has been with those acquired from other teams. The identification of and the development of young wide receivers has been a significant weakness of the patriots for almost a decade.

supafly said:

More hits than misses at WR?

You honestly can't be serious. You just can't be.

One year in 2007 with a couple of trades does not equal a successful approach to choosing WR's.

How many times have they wasted draft picks on the position? How many times have they picked up guys like Donald Hayes, Joey Galloway, Chad Ochocinco, Torry Holt, etc, etc in trades or free agency?

They have continued to waste precious draft picks, many such as the following players in the top 3 rounds on the WR position like: Chad Jackson, Bethel Johnson, Brandon Tate, and Taylor Price.

There have been others who they have selected like PK Sam, etc who weren't necessarily the end of the world due to wasted picks, but they certainly didn't work out either.

Your "hits" as far as the draft go are including some crazy names for an actually productive WR for this team (or any team for that matter):

--Matthew Slater??

--Julian Edelman??

Those are nothing more than special teams guys. They aren't actual WR's. Edelman certainly didn't deserve the "bubble status" talk from so many in the off-season, but I have my doubts as to whether or not anyone will consider him a successful WR on any level.

So that narrows it down to 2 successful draft picks: Givens and Branch in 2002 (10+ years ago).

I'm not sure what kind of crazy math you're doing, but "more hits than misses" is not going to work with many people, if any at all around here.

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VrabelJr said:

Despite a up and down game yesterday, I really like what I see from Dennard. I'm not going to go crazy over the kid yet but he's showing some serious potential. You can tell already he plays with an attitude that we haven't seen in our CBs since Ty Law was here. I think he might be our only CB that LOVES to play man to man coverage.

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Dowling was the same type of player in college, except he's bigger. He was out of football for a long time and he's struggling right now, but he has talent. Would love to see these two realize their potential.

Bumping this because this kid has ball awareness and ball skills that you just can't teach. The ceiling looks high for him.

I hope we continue to start him, growing pains be damned.

He already is looking like he has the potential to be our best DB.

Modest said:

I hope we continue to start him, growing pains be damned.

He already is looking like he has the potential to be our best DB.

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Who else would you rather start Arrington or Moore?

ATippett56 said:

Who else would you rather start Arrington or Moore?

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Arrington and McCourty with two of Gregory, Chung, and Wilson at safety, I assume.

I, for one, am a fan of McCourty at safety and continuing to start Dennard.

Sciz said:

Arrington and McCourty with two of Gregory, Chung, and Wilson at safety, I assume.

I, for one, am a fan of McCourty at safety and continuing to start Dennard.

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I disagree.

Start McCourty and Dennard at cornerback and two of Chung, Gregory, Wilson at safety.

I liked seeing him bully that WR out of bounds

Saw that his trial was pushed to February.

Glass I Dowling to IR puts him out of the CB equation for yet another season.

Have to wonder how much longer BB tolerates his fragility.