Devin McCourty

Rob0729 said:

I does look like McCourty was beat on that play, BUT it might also be that looking back he saw the ball was underthrown and slowed down to make a play on it. It was clear that he was quicker to react to the underthrown ball much faster than the receiver. He did slow down on the ball much faster than the receiver.

But this is only one play in an entire game. This is the problem with criticism of any player. People want to judge the player on one play. I remember Light would play a great game and then let his defender by once and all the talk the next would be how Light was a turnstile.

Click to expand...

Usually someone doesn't look back if they are beat.

patsfaninpittsburgh said:

Usually someone doesn't look back if they are beat.

Click to expand...

This is a good point and one that I don't think I saw mentioned at any point after Sunday's game.

One of the replays showed the safety arriving just after McCourty got his hands on the ball, was quite reminiscent of last season in the way the safety arrived late.

patsfaninpittsburgh said:

Usually someone doesn't look back if they are beat.

Click to expand...

He clearly has stopped, and the receiver has as well.
McCourty used the technique of trailing and looking beat to bait a throw then close the gap and Int it very effectively in his rookie season.
It appears he did it here too.

KontradictioN said:

I remember getting piled on here in the offseason when I suggested that Charger fans really weren't that unhappy with losing Gregory (because it happened). Posters responded by saying that they were horribly broken up with losing him. I have no idea what people saw, honestly. But Gregory isn't very good and I'm hoping that Wilson can get more and more playing time as the season goes on. Sure, Gregory is better than the garbage we lined up next to Chung in 2011, but that's not saying much. I'm expecting Manning to target him early and often this weekend.

Click to expand...

My own read on Gregory is that he's an acceptable depth player but probably shouldn't be your starting safety. Ideally you'd want a beast coverage player back there to compensate for Chung's shortcomings in that area; hopefully said player ends up being Wilson.

patsfaninpittsburgh said:

Usually someone doesn't look back if they are beat.

Click to expand...

Most likely. I am just giving the McCourty critics the benefit of the doubt. Unfortunately, the TV cameras didn't get the shot until after he turned his head. So we don't know for sure until someone looks at the All 22 to confirm.

AndyJohnson said:

He clearly has stopped, and the receiver has as well.
McCourty used the technique of trailing and looking beat to bait a throw then close the gap and Int it very effectively in his rookie season.
It appears he did it here too.

Click to expand...

If that is the case, has McCourty single coverage while trailing or does he have safety help? If that is a coverage where you should have safety help, then the Safety missplayed it as he would have been beaten if Fitz threw a good ball leading the receiver.

SwedishPat said:

If that is the case, has McCourty single coverage while trailing or does he have safety help? If that is a coverage where you should have safety help, then the Safety missplayed it as he would have been beaten if Fitz threw a good ball leading the receiver.

Click to expand...

Looks from the screen capture, he should have had safety help. But the safety was out of position. There is clearly a safety (looks like Gregory) deep without a man to cover and it looks like he fell asleep on the coverage.

SwedishPat said:

If that is the case, has McCourty single coverage while trailing or does he have safety help? If that is a coverage where you should have safety help, then the Safety missplayed it as he would have been beaten if Fitz threw a good ball leading the receiver.

Click to expand...

If McCourty was playing the trail technique, and there was a good throw leading to a reception, it would have been the safety's fault, yes.

AndyJohnson said:

He clearly has stopped, and the receiver has as well.
McCourty used the technique of trailing and looking beat to bait a throw then close the gap and Int it very effectively in his rookie season.
It appears he did it here too.

Click to expand...

He did the same thing quite frequently during his rookie campaign (the pick against SD is done perfectly) and he made the play often his rookie season. That's really the only difference between McCourty then and McCourty now. He also was better during his rookie season for sensing when he should turn and look for the ball. If he can get those two components back, then we'll be making threads about the re-emergence of DMaC.

Some reading material . . .

Devin McCourty Responding to Criticism With Return to Pro Bowl Form in Patriots Secondary - New England Patriots - NESN.com

SwedishPat said:

If that is the case, has McCourty single coverage while trailing or does he have safety help? If that is a coverage where you should have safety help, then the Safety missplayed it as he would have been beaten if Fitz threw a good ball leading the receiver.

Click to expand...

Rob0729 said:

Looks from the screen capture, he should have had safety help. But the safety was out of position. There is clearly a safety (looks like Gregory) deep without a man to cover and it looks like he fell asleep on the coverage.

Click to expand...

Well, yes and no. The Pats are in Man free, aka Man 1, and corners are not supposed to assume safety help in that situation. The safety is there mostly to prevent touchdowns, especially in cases of all verticals with the linebackers in coverage. Actually covering sideline-to-sideline on deep throws is a bonus, so the corners, especially the outside corners, should play it honest.

The safety is actually Tavon Wilson. And yes, he is misplaying it, as he should be deepest man on the field. Wouldn't be the first time it looked like he was inching up on a route right in front of him.

nekromantique said:

true, but im saying more 'team' overall...which is partly the reason for his lack of success.

when brady first started he had a good defense behind him. eli has as well.

Click to expand...

Peyton had some very good talent, in fact the colts defense was #1 in the league in 07. And the one year Peyton won the title he only played well in one game(vs the pats) and stunk it up the rest as his defense carried him to a title.

PatsBoy12 said:

He did the same thing quite frequently during his rookie campaign (the pick against SD is done perfectly) and he made the play often his rookie season. That's really the only difference between McCourty then and McCourty now. He also was better during his rookie season for sensing when he should turn and look for the ball. If he can get those two components back, then we'll be making threads about the re-emergence of DMaC.

Click to expand...

Its the difference between McCourty as a rookie to McCourty in 2011. This year he is playing that technique like 2010, with 2 picks, other almost picks and being beaten zero times on it.
Its not a matter of turning for the ball, its a matter of having coverage that allows him to. When you are 2 steps behind and chasing, you can't turn for the ball. He is back to baiting the throw and closing the gap.

AndyJohnson said:

Its the difference between McCourty as a rookie to McCourty in 2011. This year he is playing that technique like 2010, with 2 picks, other almost picks and being beaten zero times on it.
Its not a matter of turning for the ball, its a matter of having coverage that allows him to. When you are 2 steps behind and chasing, you can't turn for the ball. He is back to baiting the throw and closing the gap.

Click to expand...

Though I don't disagree with you totally, I will say that turning and looking for the ball continues to be a problem for McCourty this season, though less frequently than last. Perhaps my post confused things a bit because it seems like one continuous thought, but it really isn't. The technique he's playing worked for him then and seems to work for him now. Turning and looking for the ball, a separate thing, needs work still.

Rob0729 said:

I does look like McCourty was beat on that play, BUT it might also be that looking back he saw the ball was underthrown and slowed down to make a play on it. It was clear that he was quicker to react to the underthrown ball much faster than the receiver. He did slow down on the ball much faster than the receiver.

But this is only one play in an entire game. This is the problem with criticism of any player. People want to judge the player on one play. I remember Light would play a great game and then let his defender by once and all the talk the next would be how Light was a turnstile.

Click to expand...

Exactly, spot on. This whole argument is based upon determining something (was DM beaten) that has several variables that can't be known for certain to people outside BB's office/the locker room. Was he supposed to have over the top help is just one variable. Ultimately a CB must be judged on the results of a multi-game snapshot (at least 4 or 5). Football is quite simple in this regard: if game film from multiple games shows DM getting beat/out of position too frequently, OCs-QBs will exploit (or try to) that. And if DM's play limits their success frequently enough, OCs-QBs will try to exploit someone/somewhere else. This is the only way the answer to the question will be determined.......not one play from one game.
As far as this season, from my own observation/opinion, DM does not look like he is being frequently targeted or teams are having too much success throwing at him. It hasn't been perfect but that is my conclusion after 4 games.

TheBostonStraggler said:

Exactly, spot on. This whole argument is based upon determining something (was DM beaten) that has several variables that can't be known for certain to people outside BB's office/the locker room. Was he supposed to have over the top help is just one variable. Ultimately a CB must be judged on the results of a multi-game snapshot (at least 4 or 5). Football is quite simple in this regard: if game film from multiple games shows DM getting beat/out of position too frequently, OCs-QBs will exploit (or try to) that. And if DM's play limits their success frequently enough, OCs-QBs will try to exploit someone/somewhere else. This is the only way the answer to the question will be determined.......not one play from one game.
As far as this season, from my own observation/opinion, DM does not look like he is being frequently targeted or teams are having too much success throwing at him. It hasn't been perfect but that is my conclusion after 4 games.

Click to expand...

I find it interesting that people are complaining about a DB who in the past 2 weeks could have theoretically had 4 interceptions opposed to 2. Coverage issues or not, I'm pleased McCourty appears to be "re-discovering" his ability to find the ball.

There's no pleasing some people.

A good point some of you guys mentioned that I'm going to reinforce is that a beaten McCourty isn't looking for the ball; he's rushing downfield to make up lost ground which often leads to barreling into the WR or the obvious leaving his man wide open. McCourty didn't just happen to turn and get a pick, he was ready to get that ball. Some CB's can play it off when they're beat. McCourty really can't.

I was at the game, so I didn't see any replays of the first interception. But wasn't it a week ago that we were all berating McCourty for never looking back for the ball? Weren't we all whining that McCourty has lost his confidence and his ball skills? Weren't we complaining that Flacco could just lob a ball up for grabs and McCourty would be beaten?

Even if he was beaten by his man, McCourty looked back, reacted better than the receiver and took the ball. He didn't commit a penalty. He made a great play for the ball. And held on.

My immediate reaction: Yay! He made the Bills pay for just lobbing it up. Yay! He looked for the ball! Yay! He held on. Yay! No flags!

I am glad the team is playing a HOF QB this week so we can settle this debate of whether we have a new and improved McCourty like his rookie year or the same old trash from last year.

This game will be an indicator of how far he has come