The Pats Have a Coaching Problem

Bill B. said:

So let's see. Last year the Patriots had one of the worst defenses in the league. In the first 2 games, the defense played well and people were ranting about how good this defense could be. So we lose 2 games in a row by a total of 3 points. The last 3 games had many referee screwups which contribited to extending drives for the opponent. By all means lets fire the whole coaching staff because we are going to judge everyone by the last game. Man, I lnow fans can be fickle but can we get through the next 13 games before declaring this season a disaster.

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That's the nature and closeness of professional sports!

aluminum seats said:

Yes, exactly. We should fire the whole coaching staff.

There should be a strawman emoticon here....

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yeah....

Except for Pepper Johnson, not one of the other assistant coaches or either co-ordinators played a single down in the NFL. The "resume"(snicker) of Boyer in particular is a complete joke. He's no more qualified to coach NFL CBs than I am. Most of these guys have never coached in Division 1, let alone in the NFL.

Looking for a reason why this team continuously loses big games in the 4th quarter? Look no farther than the inexperienced, incompetent thanksdad assistants who have no feckin idea how to make in-game adjustments.

captain stone said:

Except for Pepper Johnson, not one of the other assistant coaches or either co-ordinators played a single down in the NFL. The "resume"(snicker) of Boyer in particular is a complete joke. He's no more qualified to coach NFL CBs than I am. Most of these guys have never coached in Division 1, let alone in the NFL.

Looking for a reason why this team continuously loses big games in the 4th quarter? Look no farther than the inexperienced, incompetent thanksdad assistants who have no feckin idea how to make in-game adjustments.

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First of all, yes he did coach in Division I for Kent State in 2002 and 2003. Kent State is in the MAC, a DI conference. Not that I think that is any kind of logical requirement you randomly throw in there. Nevertheless, Boyer meets it.

Second of all, he's now in his SEVENTH year coaching in the NFL on teams that have been to the playoffs six of those years, won two AFC Championships, was on the defensive staff which SET THE PATRIOTS FRANCHISE RECORD for least points allowed in a season and went to two Super Bowls giving up an average of 19 points per game in the two Super Bowls.

I think he's a bit more qualified than you.

J D Sal

He was a graduate assistant at Kent State, not a position coach. He did such a good job there that his next gig, his first an an actual position coach, was at...Bryant College. He made such an impression there, that he was given the Defensive Co-ordinator's job at...wait for it...the South Dakota School of Mines. I suppose then that the next logical step from SDSM just has to be, the New England Patriots?

Can someone please explain, why the Patriots DB's do better in their rookie year than there after ? Is it that they had better coaching in college and that helped them in the nfl ? or is that nfl teams learned the player tendencies from watching game tape and they are able to exploit them? If it is the game tape related then shouldn't the players/coaches try to disguish their tendencies ?

While Belichick has adapted his offence to the changes in offensive football Polian implemented in the last decade, it seems he hasn't done the same with the D.

He went after a big linebacking group built to stop the run when the league doesn't run much any more. I think a big part of it is that a lot of his draft picks haven't panned out but also he hasn't changed his D to fit the way the league has gone in the last 7 years. With the front 4 generating no pass rush last game they left the secondary out to dry (and our secondary is not good enough to be left out to dry). Why not send some blitzes? Change things up. I'd like to see the Pats get more aggressive on D.

captain stone said:

He was a graduate assistant at Kent State, not a position coach. He did such a good job there that his next gig, his first an an actual position coach, was at...Bryant College. He made such an impression there, that he was given the Defensive Co-ordinator's job at...wait for it...the South Dakota School of Mines. I suppose then that the next logical step from SDSM just has to be, the New England Patriots?

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You have to admit, the possibilities for defensive innovations at the South Dakota School of Mines are intriguing...

captain stone said:

Except for Pepper Johnson, not one of the other assistant coaches or either co-ordinators played a single down in the NFL. The "resume"(snicker) of Boyer in particular is a complete joke. He's no more qualified to coach NFL CBs than I am. Most of these guys have never coached in Division 1, let alone in the NFL.

Looking for a reason why this team continuously loses big games in the 4th quarter? Look no farther than the inexperienced, incompetent thanksdad assistants who have no feckin idea how to make in-game adjustments.

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could you post your football resume?

thanks

yukon cornelius said:

could you post your football resume?

thanks

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I guess I missed the part where that poster was applying for the job.

captain stone said:

He was a graduate assistant at Kent State, not a position coach. He did such a good job there that his next gig, his first an an actual position coach, was at...Bryant College. He made such an impression there, that he was given the Defensive Co-ordinator's job at...wait for it...the South Dakota School of Mines. I suppose then that the next logical step from SDSM just has to be, the New England Patriots?

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Nice moving of the goal posts. You didn't say "position coach" you said coached period.

He's been in the NFL 7 years now. You're posting on message boards. And you ludicrously suggest you're just as qualified. Get over yourself. That is pathetic.

J D Sal

captain stone said:

Except for Pepper Johnson, not one of the other assistant coaches or either co-ordinators played a single down in the NFL. The "resume"(snicker) of Boyer in particular is a complete joke. He's no more qualified to coach NFL CBs than I am. Most of these guys have never coached in Division 1, let alone in the NFL.

Looking for a reason why this team continuously loses big games in the 4th quarter? Look no farther than the inexperienced, incompetent thanksdad assistants who have no feckin idea how to make in-game adjustments.

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Then it is a problem with OC and DC in the league

Here is the breakdown

DC
30 in the league (2 do not have a named DC. KC and STL)

24 have never played a down
6 played in the NFL

OC

29 never played a down in the NFL
3 played in the NFL

Now Head Coaches have more

22 have never played a down
9 played in the NFL
1 "played in the NFL" (1987 replacement player--Sean Payton)

So out of 94 HC,DC and OC spots (not including KC and STL DC jobs)

18 played in the NFL(19)
75 did not play a down(80%)
1 played in replacement games (1%)

By the way, where is Eric Mangini's (who the original poster lauded) DI position coaching experience? Or college coaching at all? At least Boyer coached in college, if that is a requirement as you are claiming. And Bryant is now Division I-AA or whatever the name is now. Boyer coached in college, position and DC, albeit not at DI. He did have some DI coaching experience. Mangini to this day has zero college coaching experience at any level of college.

Mangini's closest was "During the second semester of his junior and senior years, he coached the Kew Colts, a semi-professional football team in Melbourne, Australia, to two regional championships."

Oh, Australian football! Then Belichick promoted him from a 23 year old ballboy with the Browns, literally, to an Offensive Coaching Assistant in a short time. He then followed a similar path as Boyer to position coach and then, for one year (his only year ever as a coordinator) as a DC in 2005.

Boyer's resume was far more impressive, coaching wise, than Mangini's at the time they took their first NFL Coaching Assistant job. Mangini literally was a semester coach as a college student for an Austalian team and that's it. Do they even know if its puffed or stuffed in Australia? That's it. Boyer had coached at various levels of college and at least done position and coordinating as well as having been on a staff at the DI level.

J D Sal

Figured this was worth a bump, considering the latest chapter. In his NFL debut, Dennard was making plays, looking very promising.

So what will the coaching do to him?

Just kidding. As I said in the original post, I just think it's something to look at. So many cornerbacks here look good as rookies, then decline steadily. Just don't know why.

The point that these guys haven't gone on to be stars (or even players, really) elsewhere is definitely fair, but doesn't seem like the whole story. Maybe they're so thoroughly messed up when they leave they're just shot. I dunno. I do think it's fair to say that if the Pats had a unquestionably superior secondary coach like Dante on the O-line, we'd all be happy indeed.

aluminum seats said:

if the Pats had a unquestionably superior secondary coach like Dante on the O-line, we'd all be happy indeed.

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Like back when this sly fox was the DB coach?

aluminum seats said:

Figured this was worth a bump, considering the latest chapter. In his NFL debut, Dennard was making plays, looking very promising.

So what will the coaching do to him?

Just kidding. As I said in the original post, I just think it's something to look at. So many cornerbacks here look good as rookies, then decline steadily. Just don't know why.

The point that these guys haven't gone on to be stars (or even players, really) elsewhere is definitely fair, but doesn't seem like the whole story. Maybe they're so thoroughly messed up when they leave they're just shot. I dunno. I do think it's fair to say that if the Pats had a unquestionably superior secondary coach like Dante on the O-line, we'd all be happy indeed.

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There are several threads on the DB's and some have been merged. So, it was not "worth a bump".