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Do not watch if you have high blood pressure: Ravens game winning FG goes wide right


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Tell me which game this week was officiated satisfactory?

There was none and each game had controversy and there were a lot of screwings,this game was one of the bigger clashes so it got more publicity but there isn't an NFL team that has not been screwed in one way or another and as long as the NFL are cheap tightwads it will continue...get used to it.

ALL the teams,including NE are seeing the results of a billion dollar company pinching pennies.

If the Refs stay out in '12 then The Super bowl winner this year probably will have had some lucky calls that decides a playoff game they should not have received.

Good, so we agree, every team is getting screwed.
 
He looks out of position to me. He's standing three feet to the right of the pole instead of underneath.

Precisely. Rather than taking a straightedge to the ball vs. the goal post, take a straightedge and put it along the middle of the hash marks on that side of the field. On an NFL field, the distance between the hash marks is equal to the distance between the goal posts. You can clearly see that the referee is out of position, about 2 feet inside the goal post. Given the perspective from his position, it's not surprising that he thought the ball traveled inside the goal post. From his position, all he could do was guess.
 
Tell me which game this week was officiated satisfactory?

There was none and each game had controversy and there were a lot of screwings,this game was one of the bigger clashes so it got more publicity but there isn't an NFL team that has not been screwed in one way or another and as long as the NFL are cheap tightwads it will continue...get used to it.

ALL the teams,including NE are seeing the results of a billion dollar company pinching pennies.

If the Refs stay out in '12 then The Super bowl winner this year probably will have had some lucky calls that decides a playoff game they should not have received.

yeah. I was stuck watching the entire jets dolphins game here in nyc and the officiating was far worse there than in the pats game where the ref at least seemed to know what he was doing if his sidekicks didn't. the ref in the jets dolphins game was a bumbling fool.
 
Precisely. Rather than taking a straightedge to the ball vs. the goal post, take a straightedge and put it along the middle of the hash marks on that side of the field. On an NFL field, the distance between the hash marks is equal to the distance between the goal posts. You can clearly see that the referee is out of position, about 2 feet inside the goal post. Given the perspective from his position, it's not surprising that he thought the ball traveled inside the goal post. From his position, all he could do was guess.

Absolutely. We're all just guessing and it was clearly a judgment call on the field. I think someone looking up from below the goal posts no matter exactly where they were standing would just be "guessing" whether he be a replacement official or a 15 year NFL ref.

For all the things the replacement officials did wrong last night, this was not one of them. Even looking at the video from CBS a half dozen times, I still can't tell when the ball breaks the plane of the uprights and when it crosses above and then beyond the right upright in relation to that moment.
 
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Thanks for the clarification; I tried to Google the rule as you paraphrase it ("every single bit of the ball..."), but couldn't find it, so I'd appreciate a link so I can add one other bit of trivia to my storehouse of football knowledge.

It was from a Fox article by Mike Pereira:

Baltimore Ravens' winning field against New England Patriots not easy call - NFL News | FOX Sports on MSN

Pereira said:
Here is the rule: In order for a field goal that crosses over the top of the upright to be good, the entire ball must pass inside the outside edge of the upright extended.

In other words, draw a line straight up extending the outside edge of the upright skyward. If the entire ball passes inside that line at the exact point that it is directly over the upright, then the field goal is good.

Did it? I don't know and that is precisely why this play, this field goal, is not reviewable. There isn't any technology at this point that can show precisely when the ball is directly over the upright. That is why the NFL’s competition committee made this aspect of a field goal not reviewable.

The best look is from the official standing directly under the upright, and it is likely to remain that way.

I am not sure though that the bolded part is true. A high speed camera pointing up from the bottom corners of the goalposts would catch this nicely, for a price
 
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Anyway, I give up the good fight. It was literally as close as possible. Impossible to call.

WJdxe.png


I mean, look at those pixels! They line up exactly!
 
It was from a Fox article by Mike Pereira:

Baltimore Ravens' winning field against New England Patriots not easy call - NFL News | FOX Sports on MSN



I am not sure though that the bolded part is true. A high speed camera pointing up from the bottom corners of the goalposts would catch this nicely, for a price

i think he just meant that no such tech is currently implemeneted.

i would think that itd be fairly easy to implement a camera at the top, bbut the league probably doesnt see it as an issue. (it doesnt happen too often a year, the only reason i see it as a problem is that it seemed happened alot [relatively] this week in college football games as well...but they have the same rule)
 
Like I said,its stupid talk...If that kick was off the foot of Gostkowski,no one in here admits it might have not been good,they would have called it clutch and redemption from the arizona game.

As far as Wilfork,the Refs were underneath the pole and had a better view......maybe if Wilfork and his front guys had gotten to Flacco at least once in that final drive,he wouldn't have had anything to complain about,there would have been no FG attempt.

I know,there was no pressure because the Ravens were holding the whole DL the entire final drive :rolleyes:

That kick wasn't good.
 
In my humble opinion, the refs had made up their mind once it left his foot. After the surround sound high def chanting of "Bull S***" unless that thing bounced to them it was gonna be good. The replays I've seen at best say the ball may have hit the middle of that upright which means the entire ball was not inside the outer edge of it. The bottom line....these Rent-A-Refs are so bad it casts a large shadow of doubt over all these games. :(

My 2 pennies
 
:singing::singing::singing:

sorry einstein. you crack me up.

you do realize that sensors work by having a sensor IN OPPOSITION to the laser or light beam (like in an elevator door). That means the sensor beeps when you break the light stream.

So where exactly are you stationing the two sensors for the two posts?
..... GEOSYNCHRONOUS ORBIT??

that is correct Gumby...but take it a step back...what if there is no sensor but simply a light beam? and it is pointing up from the top of the goalpost?

if that beam is broken by the ball (ie it dissappears for a second from above the ball) then a laser can be used that way
 
also guys...if the kicker, the goalpost and the camera are all in a straight line...that is the PERFECT angle to view the kick from...

and it sure looks to me like that may be the case
 
That's inconclusive. It probably went over it. It might've been wide. We'd only know if there was a camera on the post.
If it looks wide from that angle, then it doesn't make sense that it would straighten up from an angle directly behind the goal posts. Judging from that, my guess is the ball would have banged into the post. What it did from there is anyone's guess.

That's football. It really is a game of inches.
 
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No technology available? BS. Just extend the uprights further up. Fixed.

they were extended from 24 feet to 30 feet a few decades back. I'd guess 35 would be better
 
Why hasn't NBC released the endzone footage or even the Pole footage?
 
Crossing over the upright does not make it a good kick. That is NOT the rule.

If every single bit of the ball passes inside of the outer edge of the upright, that is what makes it a good kick. That is the rule.

Interesting. So the ref needs to make a judgement call as to if any part of the ball would be outside an imaginary plane that includes the width of the goalposts?
 
that is correct Gumby...but take it a step back...what if there is no sensor but simply a light beam? and it is pointing up from the top of the goalpost?

if that beam is broken by the ball (ie it dissappears for a second from above the ball) then a laser can be used that way

Seems like it should be doable. Just turn them on for a kick.

Supposedly, they have technology that has been developed in soccer that can reliably show whether the entire ball has crossed the goal line. Seems like something similar wouldn't be too hard. You don't need to create a field hundreds of feet, but just 10 to 15 feet above the uprights should be fine.
 
It was from a Fox article by Mike Pereira:

Baltimore Ravens' winning field against New England Patriots not easy call - NFL News | FOX Sports on MSN



I am not sure though that the bolded part is true. A high speed camera pointing up from the bottom corners of the goalposts would catch this nicely, for a price

Thanks. Well, that's the proverbial "horse's mouth," so its got to be right.

But even the camera you suggest would be subject to judgment as to when the ball crossed the plane formed the by two uprights. The only foolproof way of using technology to determine the answer would be to have two synchronized sets of cameras, one to determine when the ball passes the plane created by the two goalposts and the second to determine where it is in relation to either goalpost when it does. That makes me think that it would be a lot simpler just to make the goalposts extend another four or five feet higher than the 30 feet that they do today in the NFL (the rule says "at least" 30 feet, so they could be longer, though I imagine that stability would be an issue if you wanted to keep them from swaying too much in a wind).

Heh, heh, now for the "let's see if we can drive ourselves crazy" analysis.

The rule also specifies that the "width" of the goalpost be six inches, without, as far as I know, specifying whether it is circular or square. When I was a kid, most goal posts were wooden contraptions with square uprights, for example.

So, a circular goalpost with a width, or diameter, of six inches, would have a circumference of approximately 18.84954 inches and, more importantly, an area of 28.27431 square inches.

Now, it gets interesting.

We all studied in high school geometry that Archimedes proved that you cannot "square a circle," i.e., that you cannot construct a square whose area is equal to the area of a particular circle with the tools that would be available to someone constructing as mundane a contraption as a goalpost. My memory is rusty, but I think that means that a round goalpost with a diameter of six inches will always have only about 80% of the area of a square goalpost with sides of six inches.

Therefore, assuming the availability and installation of cameras capable of capturing this at the precise moment it occurs (big assumption), a kick that would be "no good" because it resulted in a very small part (to use your original language) of the football passing outside the outer arc of a circular goalpost with a diameter of six inches as it passed above that goalpost might indeed be "good" if the goalpost were square and comprised another 20% of surface area for the same width.

Conversely, a kick that was "no good" because it bounced off of the edge of a square goalpost six inches in width could indeed be "good" if it just passed inside, at an angle of course, the inner arc (with no "edge") of a round goalpost of six inches width.

What does all that mean?

To me it means that we have to accept that we're going to have to rely on the eyeballs of fallible human beings standing under thirty foot high goalposts and looking up either into a bright sun or the glare of stadium lights, with a split second in which to make a judgment, and hope that they get it right more often than they get it wrong.
 
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If it looks wide from that angle, then it doesn't make sense that it would straighten up from an angle directly behind the goal posts. Judging from that, my guess is the ball would have banged into the post. What it did from there is anyone's guess.

That's football. It really is a game of inches.

I just hope that that FG does not decide the 2 or 3 seed in January if both teams are in that position

If Baltimore ties NE in record then that kick made within 3 inches makes a week off difference
 
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