Pats Hall of Fame getting tough to get in (and Congrats to Troy Brown)

signbabybrady · Sep 14, 2012

First off congrats to Troy on being the first member of the Dynasty to get in (Drew not counted for obvious reasons). You are most deserving and pretty fitting that you are the first one to go in as you may be the brightest example of what a Patriot is. :youtheman:

Now onto the next few years as things are going to get awfully crowded. Here is the list of the next few to be elidgible and by the time we get thru this the rest will be elidgible.

From ESPNBoston here is the list of next up.

Tedy Bruschi -- 2013
Rodney Harrison -- 2013
Willie McGinest -- 2013
Ty Law -- 2014
Mike Vrabel --2015
Kevin Faulk -- 2016*
Matt Light -- 2016

thats 7 players right there at one each year Vinateri, Brady, Seymour and anyone else I am leaving out will be closer to elidgible 7 years from now. Also might want to consider where and when will BB, RAC, and Weiss fit in. Should make for some fun hall of fame moments of the next decade plus.

Now just for some fun predict the order of the above. I will stick with just the 7 but feel free to add someone else who could be elidgible if you would like.

2013 - No Brainer Teddy mine as well be handed the red jacket now.
2014 - Though Willie and Rodney were worthy of first ballot they went up against Teddy same problem this year as I see Ty as a first ballot.
2015 - Tough call and though I see Willie as a bigger part of the Patriots I think Rodney is just a more popular guy so Rodney it is.
2016 - I think Faulk would be first ballot here except I think he plays a game or two this year and so Willie it is and much deserved as he shouldnt have had to wait 3 years.
2017 - KFaulk take a bow
2018 - Matt Light I think he is where some guys could be pushed back by yet to retire players but for now Light it is
2019 - Same as above but for now Vrable it is.

I think they will have to wait a while but what about a guy like Lawyer Milloy once the keys to all 3 get in to we give him some love? I think he earned it. Or Ted Johnson or some of the other guys who played key roles in at least one title but are not obvious front runners like the 7 above. Do Koppen and Neal get any love I think they should but I know I seem like I am just giving it to anyone but there are so many deserving in my mind.

Brettlax3434 · Sep 14, 2012

signbabybrady said:
First off congrats to Troy on being the first member of the Dynasty to get in (Drew not counted for obvious reasons). You are most deserving and pretty fitting that you are the first one to go in as you may be the brightest example of what a Patriot is. :youtheman:

Now onto the next few years as things are going to get awfully crowded. Here is the list of the next few to be elidgible and by the time we get thru this the rest will be elidgible.

From ESPNBoston here is the list of next up.

Tedy Bruschi -- 2013
Rodney Harrison -- 2013
Willie McGinest -- 2013
Ty Law -- 2014
Mike Vrabel --2015
Kevin Faulk -- 2016*
Matt Light -- 2016

thats 7 players right there at one each year Vinateri, Brady, Seymour and anyone else I am leaving out will be closer to elidgible 7 years from now. Also might want to consider where and when will BB, RAC, and Weiss fit in. Should make for some fun hall of fame moments of the next decade plus.

Now just for some fun predict the order of the above. I will stick with just the 7 but feel free to add someone else who could be elidgible if you would like.

2013 - No Brainer Teddy mine as well be handed the red jacket now.
2014 - Though Willie and Rodney were worthy of first ballot they went up against Teddy same problem this year as I see Ty as a first ballot.
2015 - Tough call and though I see Willie as a bigger part of the Patriots I think Rodney is just a more popular guy so Rodney it is.
2016 - I think Faulk would be first ballot here except I think he plays a game or two this year and so Willie it is and much deserved as he shouldnt have had to wait 3 years.
2017 - KFaulk take a bow
2018 - Matt Light I think he is where some guys could be pushed back by yet to retire players but for now Light it is
2019 - Same as above but for now Vrable it is.

I think they will have to wait a while but what about a guy like Lawyer Milloy once the keys to all 3 get in to we give him some love? I think he earned it. Or Ted Johnson or some of the other guys who played key roles in at least one title but are not obvious front runners like the 7 above. Do Koppen and Neal get any love I think they should but I know I seem like I am just giving it to anyone but there are so many deserving in my mind.

I don't know how Drew is not a part of the dynasty. Brady got hurt in the AFC championship game and Bledsoe finished the game, getting the Patriots to the first of three super bowls in four years. Without him there might not be a dynasty.

signbabybrady · Sep 14, 2012

Brettlax3434 said:
I don't know how Drew is not a part of the dynasty. Brady got hurt in the AFC championship game and Bledsoe finished the game, getting the Patriots to the first of three super bowls in four years. Without him there might not be a dynasty.

I guess I do need to explain my reasoning. I am as big a Drew supporter as anyone and he fully deserves his red jacket but for his contributions in the 90s and for one half of football in the steelers game but not as some core member of 3 out of 4. But lets please leave it at that as this is a thread to celebrate the hall of famers and we dont need it to turn into a Drew conversation as those can get heated, lengthy and hijack a thread.

MoLewisrocks · Sep 14, 2012

Rodney goes in after Tedy. He and Law both had two rings (technically, since Law missed most of 2004 and was on IR when the third was won), and while Law was instrumental in the first Rodney was key to the second and third. He rallied that team after Milloy was cut. Ty also chose to walk away over $$$. Rodney outplayed his contract and retired a Patriot.

It's also the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of the Very Good or Guys Who Contributed or Guys Who Had Their Moments. Ty and Lawyer and even Willie chose to move on and finish elsewhere for bigger paydays (although Ty didn't quite achieve that goal). Guys like Vrabel, Faulk, Light get in first. Then Ty and Willie and when the situation permits maybe Milloy. Really not sure the coordinators get a jacket. BB's eventual jacket covers his staffs during his tenure. Not like they've lit it up absent him. Kind of the opposite of the Parcell's BB dynamic.

signbabybrady · Sep 14, 2012

MoLewisrocks said:
Rodney goes in after Tedy. He and Law both had two rings (technically, since Law missed most of 2004 and was on IR when the third was won), and while Law was instrumental in the first Rodney was key to the second and third. He rallied that team after Milloy was cut. Ty also chose to walk away over $$$. Rodney outplayed his contract and retired a Patriot.

It's also the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of the Very Good or Guys Who Contributed or Guys Who Had Their Moments. Ty and Lawyer and even Willie chose to move on and finish elsewhere for bigger paydays (although Ty didn't quite achieve that goal). Guys like Vrabel, Faulk, Light get in first. Then Ty and Willie and when the situation permits maybe Milloy. Really not sure the coordinators get a jacket. BB's eventual jacket covers his staffs during his tenure. Not like they've lit it up absent him. Kind of the opposite of the Parcell's BB dynamic.

I think your point is very valid as to retiring a Patriot and maybe that does move Rodney ahead of some of those guys but dont forget that some of those guys had some big contributions to the team in the 90's and despite not retiring here were longer tenured Patriots. In this day and age of free agency we need to accept the outcome that not all will retire here and I dont think that makes them any less worthy.

I agree I am not sure coordinators actually get any love but I wouldnt hate on the BB desciples yet. Parcells had some great desciples but most of them didnt have their ultimate success until decades after Parcell's first title. These guys deserve time to make their mistakes and see if their second chances are better Romeo could do better this time around, doesn't look like Weis is coming to the pros ever, McD will certainly get a second chance, and some guys still have yet to get their first chances. Also consider some of the front office personell men around the league.

Linda_The_Pats_Fan (She was NEM) · Sep 14, 2012

The problem is that they only elect ONE player a year, and if they do not open it up to 2 or 3 a year, then many deserving players will get shut out.

There are many players from the eras of the sixties to the nineties that will get shut out as players who are more recognizeable from the rosters of the 2000s get in.

Several from the most recent eras will get voted in leaving those others, from earlier Pats teams locked out.

Perhaps they should change the voting to list players from three different time frames to get in each year... 1: the 60s and 70s. 2: the 80s and 90s and 3: and the 2000s and 2010s to present eligibility year cutoff. (I believe that currently is 2007)

Buchanty · Sep 14, 2012

Linda_The_Pats_Fan said:
The problem is that they only elect ONE player a year, and if they do not open it up to 2 or 3 a year, then many deserving players will get shut out.

There are many players from the eras of the sixties to the nineties that will get shut out as players who are more recognizeable from the rosters of the 2000s get in.

Several from the most recent eras will get voted in leaving those others, from earlier Pats teams locked out.

Perhaps they should change the voting to list players from three different time frames to get in each year... 1: the 60s and 70s. 2: the 80s and 90s and 3: and the 2000s and 2010s to present eligibility year cutoff. (I believe that currently is 2007)

Not a bad idea, though 3 per year is too many for 1 franchise. The dynasty members are going to create a bottleneck as you point out. Former greats are going to be passed over, and possibly forgotten, especially if there is a dynasty mark 2, 3 or 4.

A slight amendment could be to have a single retrospective pick each year or possibly every other year. This would keep the numbers reasonable and better maintain the quality of the candidates (ie not setting the bar too low).

Brady_to_Moss · Sep 14, 2012

Stadium is going to go nuts on sunday when they introduce troy

signbabybrady · Sep 14, 2012

Linda_The_Pats_Fan said:
The problem is that they only elect ONE player a year, and if they do not open it up to 2 or 3 a year, then many deserving players will get shut out.

There are many players from the eras of the sixties to the nineties that will get shut out as players who are more recognizeable from the rosters of the 2000s get in.

Several from the most recent eras will get voted in leaving those others, from earlier Pats teams locked out.

Perhaps they should change the voting to list players from three different time frames to get in each year... 1: the 60s and 70s. 2: the 80s and 90s and 3: and the 2000s and 2010s to present eligibility year cutoff. (I believe that currently is 2007)

I think a better way to do this might be to just clean up the mistakes of the past in one fail swoop. Let in the 5 best guys leftout so far from 60-99 right now as the bottleneck hits. I think one year is right as you dont want to water it down. IMO when all is said and done the hall should be half pre dynasty players and half if not more post Dynasty (with this obviously growing infintiely).

italian pat patriot · Sep 14, 2012

Linda_The_Pats_Fan said:
There are many players from the eras of the sixties to the nineties that will get shut out as players who are more recognizeable from the rosters of the 2000s get in.

Several from the most recent eras will get voted in leaving those others, from earlier Pats teams locked out.

well said, i totally agree

Linda_The_Pats_Fan (She was NEM) · Sep 14, 2012

signbabybrady said:
Tedy Bruschi -- 2013
Rodney Harrison -- 2013
Willie McGinest -- 2013
Ty Law -- 2014
Mike Vrabel --2015
Kevin Faulk -- 2016*
Matt Light -- 2016

Most of those, if not all, will probably get in. Then, as per my other post, that will shut out a lot of great Patriot players from earlier eras that are just as deserving.

That is why the number of electees needs to be enlarged, and different categories, for eras played in, be considered.

Many, Many former players will be excluded under the current election process and your suggestions.

Gumby · Sep 14, 2012

signbabybrady said:
From ESPNBoston here is the list of next up.

Tedy Bruschi -- 2013
Rodney Harrison -- 2013
Willie McGinest -- 2013
Ty Law -- 2014
Mike Vrabel --2015
Kevin Faulk -- 2016*
Matt Light -- 2016

....

2013 - No Brainer Teddy mine as well be handed the red jacket now.
2014 - Though Willie and Rodney were worthy of first ballot they went up against Teddy same problem this year as I see Ty as a first ballot.
2015 - Tough call and though I see Willie as a bigger part of the Patriots I think Rodney is just a more popular guy so Rodney it is.
2016 - I think Faulk would be first ballot here except I think he plays a game or two this year and so Willie it is and much deserved as he shouldnt have had to wait 3 years.
2017 - KFaulk take a bow
2018 - Matt Light I think he is where some guys could be pushed back by yet to retire players but for now Light it is
2019 - Same as above but for now Vrable it is.
.....

Ty Law DOES NOT go into the Pats HOF. PERIOD.

You sir are smoking crack if you think not only that he gets in; but that he gets in in-front of Rodney.

Even Willie McG will eventually get more HOF love than mr 'i got to feed my family'.

Brady_to_Moss · Sep 14, 2012

Gumby said:
Ty Law DOES NOT go into the Pats HOF. PERIOD.

You know this for a fact? Pretty sure he will be going in. He was a great player when he was here. I remember his pick of manning in the AFC champ game when it was snowing out :rocker:

MoLewisrocks · Sep 15, 2012

signbabybrady said:
I think your point is very valid as to retiring a Patriot and maybe that does move Rodney ahead of some of those guys but dont forget that some of those guys had some big contributions to the team in the 90's and despite not retiring here were longer tenured Patriots. In this day and age of free agency we need to accept the outcome that not all will retire here and I dont think that makes them any less worthy.

I agree I am not sure coordinators actually get any love but I wouldnt hate on the BB desciples yet. Parcells had some great desciples but most of them didnt have their ultimate success until decades after Parcell's first title. These guys deserve time to make their mistakes and see if their second chances are better Romeo could do better this time around, doesn't look like Weis is coming to the pros ever, McD will certainly get a second chance, and some guys still have yet to get their first chances. Also consider some of the front office personell men around the league.

For a guy like Milloy I think it does make a difference that he played longer for other teams after leaving here than he did here. The organization was counting on him when he checked out on and off the field in 2002. Ty and Willie were approaching the end of the road or flat out done when they left, so that's different. Although Bill would have retained Ty at reasonable money if not for the injury, and even after the fact. Never looked back on Willie or Lawyer. Seymour is in a similar category although he gets in quicker because of his impact talent in a 3 ring window. But he will likely stand alone competitively unless he retires after this season. Same deal with Adam.

Rodney was a heart and soul level leader and tone setter here more consistently on and off the field the entire time he was here, which is why he remained here to the end. Ty was a talent. Willie was a presence. If Bill could only have one again in hindsight, I'd bet he chooses Rodney. Vrabel was a tremendous force on the field including as a spot TE in championship games (a little like how Troy did it all impacting as a WR and returner). Although he had to leave a year early because he didn't see his own mortality and he'd become a bit of a PITA because of his union involvement.

As for the coordinators and now you're into FO personnel...they don't get in to a teams HOF ever based on how well they did after leaving. Unless a personnel man is instrumental in building a franchise - and here Pioli was always 2nd in command to the guy who had the ultimate football authority. Coordinators would have to bring in a system independent of a HC, and that never happened here in the BB era. Coordinators here implemented what Bill envisioned the offense and defense as being. And still do.

MoLewisrocks · Sep 15, 2012

Brady_to_Moss said:
You know this for a fact? Pretty sure he will be going in. He was a great player when he was here. I remember his pick of manning in the AFC champ game when it was snowing out :rocker:

The pick against the Rams was pretty nice, too... Ty goes in, he just probably has to wait his turn in a pretty awesome pecking order because he chose not to be the ultimate team player as some other did. Some fans will lose their minds when Adam goes in, but if he didn't there wouldn't be much point in having a team HOF.

Guys like Rodney, Ty, Adam are going to be in the discussion for the Canton version, whether they make it eventually or not. You don't snub them for the Foxboro version over to some extent irrational hurt feelings.

MoLewisrocks · Sep 15, 2012

Gumby said:
Ty Law DOES NOT go into the Pats HOF. PERIOD.

You sir are smoking crack if you think not only that he gets in; but that he gets in in-front of Rodney.

Even Willie McG will eventually get more HOF love than mr 'i got to feed my family'.

I fear you're the one smoking something. Rodney deserves to precede him in the pecking order. But Ty Law is a Patriots HOF'er even if Kraft has to rig the vote, which he won't.

Ring 6 · Sep 15, 2012

Brettlax3434 said:
I don't know how Drew is not a part of the dynasty. Brady got hurt in the AFC championship game and Bledsoe finished the game, getting the Patriots to the first of three super bowls in four years. Without him there might not be a dynasty.

The only way we don't win that SB without Bledsoe is if whoever else would have gone in (Huard) would have played worse in that game, which would have been very hard to do.
I don't know if you get credit for your team winning despite the way you play.

Ring 6 · Sep 15, 2012

Gumby said:
Ty Law DOES NOT go into the Pats HOF. PERIOD.

.

Is there a reason beyond your butthurt that he wanted to take another teams much higher contract as a FA after he was injured that you think this?

Ring 6 · Sep 15, 2012

signbabybrady said:
Tedy Bruschi -- 2013
Rodney Harrison -- 2013
Willie McGinest -- 2013
Ty Law -- 2014
Mike Vrabel --2015
Kevin Faulk -- 2016*
Matt Light -- 2016

Given this I will predict the inductees are:

2013 Bruschi
2014 McGinest
2015 Law
2016 Vrabel
2017 Harrison (yes he was loved but the other guys had much longer Patriot careers and/or more rings)
Assuming we would be limited to this list then Light would be next followed by Faulk.

p8ryts · Sep 15, 2012

signbabybrady said:
First off congrats to Troy on being the first member of the Dynasty to get in (Drew not counted for obvious reasons). You are most deserving and pretty fitting that you are the first one to go in as you may be the brightest example of what a Patriot is. :youtheman:

Now onto the next few years as things are going to get awfully crowded. Here is the list of the next few to be elidgible and by the time we get thru this the rest will be elidgible.

From ESPNBoston here is the list of next up.

Tedy Bruschi -- 2013
Rodney Harrison -- 2013
Willie McGinest -- 2013
Ty Law -- 2014
Mike Vrabel --2015
Kevin Faulk -- 2016*
Matt Light -- 2016

thats 7 players right there at one each year Vinateri, Brady, Seymour and anyone else I am leaving out will be closer to elidgible 7 years from now. Also might want to consider where and when will BB, RAC, and Weiss fit in. Should make for some fun hall of fame moments of the next decade plus.

Now just for some fun predict the order of the above. I will stick with just the 7 but feel free to add someone else who could be elidgible if you would like.

2013 - No Brainer Teddy mine as well be handed the red jacket now.
2014 - Though Willie and Rodney were worthy of first ballot they went up against Teddy same problem this year as I see Ty as a first ballot.
2015 - Tough call and though I see Willie as a bigger part of the Patriots I think Rodney is just a more popular guy so Rodney it is.
2016 - I think Faulk would be first ballot here except I think he plays a game or two this year and so Willie it is and much deserved as he shouldnt have had to wait 3 years.
2017 - KFaulk take a bow
2018 - Matt Light I think he is where some guys could be pushed back by yet to retire players but for now Light it is
2019 - Same as above but for now Vrable it is.

I think they will have to wait a while but what about a guy like Lawyer Milloy once the keys to all 3 get in to we give him some love? I think he earned it. Or Ted Johnson or some of the other guys who played key roles in at least one title but are not obvious front runners like the 7 above. Do Koppen and Neal get any love I think they should but I know I seem like I am just giving it to anyone but there are so many deserving in my mind.

Good thoughtful post. For me, Willie is #1 then Tedy, Ty, Vrabel, Light, Harrison. I'm not sure Kevin, Milloy belong in there. Koppen maybe, Neal no.
Unfortunately, we are missing some of the old guys. Antwine should still be there. Clayborn, Leon Gray, we should have a veteran every year or other year in addition to the current crop.

Pats Hall of Fame getting tough to get in (and Congrats to Troy Brown)

Pro Bowl Player

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In the Starting Line-Up

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In the Starting Line-Up

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