Kick Returners?

italia44 said:

On this team,already,they have the fastest guy in the NFL,Matthew Slater.....Don't get your panties in a bunch,I'm talking football speed,not those ridiculous combine numbers.

For a guy always facing double team blocks,Slater gets to the returner faster than anyone I've ever seen......I know,I know......The FUMBLE!......It was a middle return and he got sandwiched by 2 tacklers,it wasn't a strip.

Time to give him another chance......Believe me,the opposition will take notice,when he's out there.:rocker:

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I think the speed and sense of recklessness Slater shows vs. double team blocks works against him on KOR. He seems to lack precision and smoothness in his running (much like his pass routes), which makes it hard for him to change direction.
IIRC, his KORs consisted of him sprinting full speed into a pile at the 18-yard line, the pile sometimes made up of his own blockers.
BTW, which fumble are we talking about?
Love having Slater on the team. Would really dislike having him as a returner again. My $.02.

MetalBleachers said:

I think the speed and sense of recklessness Slater shows vs. double team blocks works against him on KOR. He seems to lack precision and smoothness in his running (much like his pass routes), which makes it hard for him to change direction.
IIRC, his KORs consisted of him sprinting full speed into a pile at the 18-yard line, the pile sometimes made up of his own blockers.
BTW, which fumble are we talking about?
Love having Slater on the team. Would really dislike having him as a returner again. My $.02.

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I believe the fumble that many are speaking of is the one that occurred in the 2008 Steeler game, although I could be wrong.

MetalBleachers said:

I think the speed and sense of recklessness Slater shows vs. double team blocks works against him on KOR. He seems to lack precision and smoothness in his running (much like his pass routes), which makes it hard for him to change direction.
IIRC, his KORs consisted of him sprinting full speed into a pile at the 18-yard line, the pile sometimes made up of his own blockers.
BTW, which fumble are we talking about?
Love having Slater on the team. Would really dislike having him as a returner again. My $.02.

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I agree with your analysis of Slater's smoothness and change of direction skills.......However,doesn't this come with practice and experience?......Also,doesn't the blocking scheme on KOR's have be adjusted if Slater is returning kicks?

The part about his route running is specious,at best.....He's only been used on fly patterns and posts IIRC......Lastly.Slater continues to get reps at Wr with the first team offense,in fact,per Mike Reiss today,Slater made a great one-handed catch in the EZ,on a pass from Brady.

I believe if he was made the primary KOR,these flaws would disappear with more coaching and experience.I seem to remember when he first was assigned to the punt defense team,all he did was be the first one to run by the returner.
It's a different story ,now,isn't it?.....Experience is a wonderful thing.:yeahthat:

There were times when I've never wanted to see Slater back there to field kicks ever again(yes, the 2 fumbles), but I agree maybe he should get another shot given how inept the return game was last year. Fumbles is something that can be corrected

italia44 said:

I agree with your analysis of Slater's smoothness and change of direction skills.......However,doesn't this come with practice and experience?......Also,doesn't the blocking scheme on KOR's have be adjusted if Slater is returning kicks?

The part about his route running is specious,at best.....He's only been used on fly patterns and posts IIRC......Lastly.Slater continues to get reps at Wr with the first team offense,in fact,per Mike Reiss today,Slater made a great one-handed catch in the EZ,on a pass from Brady.

I believe if he was made the primary KOR,these flaws would disappear with more coaching and experience.I seem to remember when he first was assigned to the punt defense team,all he did was be the first one to run by the returner.
It's a different story ,now,isn't it?.....Experience is a wonderful thing.:yeahthat:

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Respectfully disagree. KOR ability has a lot to do with quickness. While Slater has excellent straight line speed, his quickness is not nearly as remarkable. See his pro day numbers: Matt Slater*|*UCLA,*FS*:*2008 NFL Draft Scout Player Profile
4.40 seconds in the 20-yard shuttle, 7.31 in the 3-cone drill.
For comparison, Julian Edelman had an excellent 3.92 and 6.62, respectively, while Nate Solder had 4.34 and 7.44. Nate Solder*|*Colorado,*OT*:*2011 NFL Draft Scout Player Profile
While too much can be made of a player's 40 time, I like to look at the "quickness" numbers to see how he might stick out. (Brandon Spikes a good example.)
As for experience, didn't Slater return kicks at UCLA? Just don't see the upside in taking him away from his strengths on ST to fiddle with something he has tried before (without distinction at NFL level).

If Slater or Woodhead were the answer, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Something about a dangerous kick returner, you sense it as soon as he gets the ball IMO. Hobbs looked like he might break one every time he touched it.

I'd like to see some WRs RBs or DBs take a shot, I can't believe we don't have a more dynamic option. Kind of a tight roster for special teams only additions, though.

supafly said:

I'm not so sure that we can come to that determination, can we Kontra?

There have certainly been other smaller backs that have done just fine. That said, I would agree that he wouldn't be well off as a lead back or anything, but that wouldn't happen anyway.

Maybe you know more about his injury-proneness situation from following the Gators more closely than I have.

As far as Rainey goes, that kid has looked awesome in TC for the Steelers and in the preseason game vs PHI last week. I think they grabbed a steal in the 5th round with him. He is quick and explosive--everything you could want in a small shifty back. He may not have to break tackles...he can just make people outright miss a high percentage of the time.

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Both Demps and Rainey are smaller scat backs. While they are extremely hard to hit due to their speed and elusiveness, they have taken some licks over the years at Florida. Almost every time, they have had to come off the field. But that's the case with all smaller backs. There aren't many of them that can absorb big hits from gunners and LB's.

Would prefer not to see Edelman back there anymore. Yes he can break one from time to time. But it seems like at times he doesn't realize where he is on the field, WHEN to take the fair catch and when to run it out. I think there is such a skill to returning punts and kicks and you have to have that awareness/skill. Thought slater was pretty good back there barring a few mishaps.

Slater, Woodhead and Vereen are Belichick's answers and we are indeed having this discussion. And yes, there are other like Arrington, McCourty and Welker who could be out there as returners.

I'm fine with Belichick's choices.

Yes, Edelman could be replaced by a top KR/PR, but I don't think that this will happen. It matters little since no one is available that Belichick would be ready to trust enough to give him a roster spot.

RayClay said:

If Slater or Woodhead were the answer, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Something about a dangerous kick returner, you sense it as soon as he gets the ball IMO. Hobbs looked like he might break one every time he touched it.

I'd like to see some WRs RBs or DBs take a shot, I can't believe we don't have a more dynamic option. Kind of a tight roster for special teams only additions, though.

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RayClay said:

If Slater or Woodhead were the answer, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Something about a dangerous kick returner, you sense it as soon as he gets the ball IMO. Hobbs looked like he might break one every time he touched it.

I'd like to see some WRs RBs or DBs take a shot, I can't believe we don't have a more dynamic option. Kind of a tight roster for special teams only additions, though.

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I agree with you that there is likely a better option, but it's possible that Belichick doesn't see that player as enough of an upgrade to risk potential injury to a guy like McCourty, etc.

I think that Edelman deserves more than 12 KR's this year before we totally rule him out (23.7 ave last yr), but I have a feeling that Vereen could see some action soon in that role too.