Branch or Stallworth

"Branch or Stallworth??"

All The Above, Baby!! :rocker:

1 ~ Tales of Brother Branch's demise have been greatly exaggerated.

2 ~ He is a Master Craftsman when he's 100%...and I expect him to be back to 100%.

3 ~ And Stallworth is the perfect compliment to the rest of this Crew: Perhaps our purest Deep Threat, and one who ~ while not at the level of the others, mind you ~ actually gets our System...and might be even better at it, the second time around, now that he'll've had two Camps to burn it in, and a few years more experience.

We've assembled by far the most FirePower of any Patriots team ever.

I say we keep the Arsenal fully stocked.

patchick said:

(In fact, the board goes ballistic over the Pats "reaching" for db's in the draft every year.)

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Really?? I don't remember that.

Frankly, I'm still amazed that Tavon Wilson was still there at #48!!

Stallworth > Branch RIGHT NOW! Branch will be a cut beileve it ot not!

patfanken said:

Now we come to the crux of our disagreement with Branch....your assertion that he's a "plug and play" WR at all positions. If that were true, I'd vastly upgrade his chances to make the roster and his value to the team as a back up WR.....IF THAT WERE TRUE.

I simply don't think so. I don't think Branch as ever played a significant number of snaps at the slot position, and certainly almost none since he returned from his exile in Seattle. He's always been a charter member of the Torry Holt "catch and duck" club, and rightfully so, given his size and body type. Clearly he's not meant to be in the slot.

Mo, I'm not in love with Stallworth necessarily. It seems he drops too many passes (at least as its been reported) But he does offer a skill set that Branch doesn't and he is a realistic option on special teams (please, Mo, Branch hasn't played special teams in 10 years, do you REALLY think that that's going to change in year 11?)

Don't get me wrong. I'd LIKE Branch to be the one who makes it, I just don't see it.

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Stallworth has 18 career PR and 3 career KR, none of the former since 2005 and none of the latter since 2003, his rookie year. Branch had 36 KR for 800+ yards his rookie year. After that he was too valuable winning rings... If Stallworth has trouble tracking balls in traffic, I can't imagine he will excell at picking up kicks with several heat seeking missles closing on him. And Branch was observed working out of the slot in OTA's and mini camp. Again, he may not be ideal at any position any longer, but Stallworth hasn't ever been ideal at any position. Branch's versatility, his rapore with Brady, his savvy grasp of this offense in total, are all considerations against which Stallworth's potential as an outside receiver with some speed will be measured. And Branch won't sulk or become disheartened if he's situationally inactive. He intends to retire here. Stallworth is looking to salvage the last couple of years of a once promising career.

MoLewisrocks said:

Stallworth has 18 career PR and 3 career KR, none of the former since 2005 and none of the latter since 2003, his rookie year. Branch had 36 KR for 800+ yards his rookie year. After that he was too valuable winning rings... If Stallworth has trouble tracking balls in traffic, I can't imagine he will excell at picking up kicks with several heat seeking missles closing on him. And Branch was observed working out of the slot in OTA's and mini camp. Again, he may not be ideal at any position any longer, but Stallworth hasn't ever been ideal at any position. Branch's versatility, his rapore with Brady, his savvy grasp of this offense in total, are all considerations against which Stallworth's potential as an outside receiver with some speed will be measured. And Branch won't sulk or become disheartened if he's situationally inactive. He intends to retire here. Stallworth is looking to salvage the last couple of years of a once promising career.

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From what I've seen at camp, Branch is the odd man out.

PP2 said:

From what I've seen at camp, Branch is the odd man out.

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I was only there Tuesday, so it's hard to get a real conclusion on that from my end, Branch was limited. But I will say Stallworth looked well in the time he was getting.

One thing to consider - either Branch/Stallworth, whichever makes the team - is likely to be inactive for a handful of games provided we have good health among the top 5 passing options. The guy who is of more value as a player who can handle limited reps with Brady in practice and in games and jump right in is obviously Branch. That's something working in Deion's favor.

Stallworth seems like far more well-rounded a receiver than he was in 2007, but Deion's asset is his depth of knowledge in the offense and chemistry with Brady.

It's going to be a tough call either way. I'm also not ruling out that both make it. Slater isn't a WR option at all, and Edelman the last few years - though camp reports suggest otherwise - wasn't really one either.

can i say neither?

Branch or Stallworth, if they make the team, in the best-case scenario are the #4 WR and #6 receiving option. that means that they should never see the field unless someone is hurt, and even then they should only see the field in a 5-wide situation. is that really worth a roster spot?

even if a WR gets hurt they can still use someone like Edelman, Woodhead, Slater, or a back-up TE in the 5-wide. having someone like Branch or Stallworth so that you can upgrade your 5th WR in case of injury just doesn't seem that important to me. and even if you cut both of them and someone gets hurt you can probably sign one of them off the street.

i'd rather they use a roster spot on someone who is situationally useful, or maybe a special teams asset. or i'd rather use it for depth at a position of need like OL or the secondary. hell, i'd rather use it to keep a young player like Ebert who will get picked up if NE cuts him. Stallworth or Branch would be a nice luxury to have but with only 53 roster spots I just don't think either of them is worth it.

BradyManny said:

I was only there Tuesday, so it's hard to get a real conclusion on that from my end, Branch was limited. But I will say Stallworth looked well in the time he was getting.

One thing to consider - either Branch/Stallworth, whichever makes the team - is likely to be inactive for a handful of games provided we have good health among the top 5 passing options. The guy who is of more value as a player who can handle limited reps with Brady in practice and in games and jump right in is obviously Branch. That's something working in Deion's favor.

Stallworth seems like far more well-rounded a receiver than he was in 2007, but Deion's asset is his depth of knowledge in the offense and chemistry with Brady.

It's going to be a tough call either way. I'm also not ruling out that both make it. Slater isn't a WR option at all, and Edelman the last few years - though camp reports suggest otherwise - wasn't really one either.

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Slater and Edelman aren't exactly Brady's go-to's but they are very valuable elsewhere. I admit I've only seen 2 camp sessions so far this year, but Edelman is putting together of the best camps I've seen from him, and Slater is consistently the first guy in the PR or KR's face, downfield.

Last night, with Lloyd out, Stallworth stepped up. He is vastly different than the guy that we saw in '07. Better techniques, better reading, and a lot more crafty.

TomBrady'sGoat said:

can i say neither?

Brnach or Stallworth, if they make the team, in the best-case scenario are the #4 WR and #6 receiving option. that means that they should never see the field unless someone is hurt, and even then they should only see the field in a 5-wide situation. is that really worth a roster spot?

even if a WR gets hurt they can still use someone like Edelman, Woodhead, Aiken, or a back-up TE in the 5-wide. having someone like Branch or Stallworth so that you can upgrade your 5th WR in case of injury just doesn't seem that important to me. and even if you cut both of them and someone gets hurt you can probably sign one of them off the street.

i'd rather they use a roster spot on someone who is situationally useful, or maybe a special teams asset. or i'd rather use it for depth at a position of need like OL or the secondary. hell, i'd rather use it to keep a young player like Ebert who will get picked up if NE cuts him. Stallworth or Branch would be a nice luxury to have but with only 53 roster spots I just don't think either of them is worth it.

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I hope not, he's long gone. I know you meant Slater.

Wow, TWICE as many votes for Stallworth than Branch. Really?

PP2 said:

Slater and Edelman aren't exactly Brady's go-to's but they are very valuable elsewhere. I admit I've only seen 2 camp sessions so far this year, but Edelman is putting together of the best camps I've seen from him, and Slater is consistently the first guy in the PR or KR's face, downfield.

Last night, with Lloyd out, Stallworth stepped up. He is vastly different than the guy that we saw in '07. Better techniques, better reading, and a lot more crafty.

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Agree with all of that. For sure, Slater is a lock for value elsewhere, and Edelman is close - but if Belichick wanted to justify keeping more WRs, he can do so by realizing Slater and Edelman's main contributions are on ST.

Agree about Stallworth's improvements. In what I saw on Tuesday and what I've seen in the youtube videos being posted, he looks very improved.

MoLewisrocks said:

Stallworth has 18 career PR and 3 career KR, none of the former since 2005 and none of the latter since 2003, his rookie year. Branch had 36 KR for 800+ yards his rookie year. After that he was too valuable winning rings... If Stallworth has trouble tracking balls in traffic, I can't imagine he will excell at picking up kicks with several heat seeking missles closing on him. And Branch was observed working out of the slot in OTA's and mini camp. Again, he may not be ideal at any position any longer, but Stallworth hasn't ever been ideal at any position. Branch's versatility, his rapore with Brady, his savvy grasp of this offense in total, are all considerations against which Stallworth's potential as an outside receiver with some speed will be measured. And Branch won't sulk or become disheartened if he's situationally inactive. He intends to retire here. Stallworth is looking to salvage the last couple of years of a once promising career.

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All fair points. Nothing more to discuss, just to watch as see what happens.

I think we can both agree that its very unlikely that both will be kept. I can't see the Pats carrying more than 5 true WRs.

My prediction:
LLoyd
Welker
Gaffney
Stallworth
Edelman
Slater (in a pinch)

Hernandez is used like a WR and I think the Pats keep 3 TEs this year.

Section103 said:

My prediction:
LLoyd
Welker
Gaffney
Stallworth
Edelman
Slater (in a pinch)

Hernandez is used like a WR and I think the Pats keep 3 TEs this year.

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I wonder if it will be Shaincoe or Fells, depending on if Fells is healthy.

12ClutchFactor said:

I wonder if it will be Shaincoe or Fells, depending on if Fells is healthy.

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If both are healthy I cannot envision a scenario where Shiancoe would make the roster but Fells was cut.

Ron Sellers said:

If both are healthy I cannot envision a scenario where Shiancoe would make the roster but Fells was cut.

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Fells was given a $1 million signing bonus, Shiancoe got 400K - I don't think 600K is enough to factor into Belichick's mind on a football decision.

Over the last four years (since Fells came into the league), Shiancoe has twice the amount of yards, twice the receptions, three times the touchdowns, and has been a better blocker - so I can't rule it out. That isn't a predictor of production going forward, but I think people are underestimating (because of the contracts they received) how productive Shiancoe has been, and how relatively less productive Fells has been.

BradyManny said:

Fells was given a $1 million signing bonus, Shiancoe got 400K - I don't think 600K is enough to factor into Belichick's mind on a football decision.

Over the last four years (since Fells came into the league), Shiancoe has twice the amount of yards, twice the receptions, three times the touchdowns, and has been a better blocker - so I can't rule it out. That isn't a predictor of production going forward, but I think people are underestimating (because of the contracts they received) how productive Shiancoe has been, and how relatively less productive Fells has been.

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A couple other things to consider:

• Fells has $2,000,000 guaranteed; Shiancoe has $400k guaranteed.
  
  
• In terms of cap space it would actually cost the Pats more to cut Fells than to keep him (over $590k).
  
  
• When both were available the Pats signed Fells, not Shiancoe.
  
  
• Shiancoe was only signed after Fells was injured and Scaife did not work out.
  
  
• While the difference in signing bonuses does not appear to be that great, have the Patriots ever released a player that was given that much of a signing bonus or that much in guaranteed money in his first training camp with the team?
  

I still believe that if both are healthy then Fells will not be cut while Shiancoe makes the team. Fells going on PUP or IR? That's a different story.

12ClutchFactor said:

I hope not, he's long gone. I know you meant Slater.

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Dang it, I thought i got to that in time. I re-read my post and facepalmed when I saw "Aiken." Those ST-only WRs are interchangable in my addled mind.

Neither. No other team wants Branch. The Pats can call him up and he'll be ready in a week if they need him midseason. Until then, he's the #6 receiving option in an offense that really only uses 4.5.

Section103 said:

My prediction:
LLoyd
Welker
Gaffney
Stallworth
Edelman
Slater (in a pinch)

Hernandez is used like a WR and I think the Pats keep 3 TEs this year.

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I wonder if they keep 4 TE, IMO Fells, Shinacoe, Filametta and Larsen are playing for 2 roster sports. Of course that will depend on Fells getting on the field.

Shinacoe and Hernandez can play a H back FB sort of role.