Lloyd being Lloyd

randomk1 said:

Nice to see our guys baited so badly by the play action.

Click to expand...

It wasn't a simple play action, it was a flea flicker. That's why Lloyd was able to gain that amount of separation. Relax, folks. I'm sure not many trick plays would be successfully defended at this point in training camp.

The guy has great hands and body control. I know it is early in camp, but yesterday he just looked so much better than any WR I seen on the Pats since Terry Glenn.

Moss was great at stretching the field, and those one handed grabs were wonderful and I think that he is a better WR as his size/speed just puts him into another class of WR.

He catches balls over the wrong shoulder with little or no apparent effort. It is like he can still run down the field while his chest points back to the QB.

But now on to the talking heads, Just because Lloyd has the ability to catch the ball in traffic, the media extrapolates that into that he can not get separation which will result in Brady not throwing him the ball

Yeah, my least favorite parts of the Super Bowl were when Bill O'Brien dropped a game-changer and when Bill O'Brien failed to jump on two NY Giant fumbles. That and when he threw an interception to Gronk. I would rank those as Bill O'Brien's worst plays in that game.

Face it, the team didn't execute. Coaching was a bigger factor in SB42. SB46, we outcoached them - the Giants were, based purely on health, the better roster and we had them where we wanted them and didn't pull the trigger.

Nordberg said:

Holy hyperbowl

The Pats were in deep need of an outside WR last year. The Pats offense was due to run into a defense that was smart enough to play short zone on all their little route offense.

Click to expand...

So....the 13 teams the Patriots beat in the regular season, and then the two they beat in the playoffs, including the excellent Ravens defense, were too stupid to figure that out?

Remind me again what it cost the Rams to get Lloyd last year? What was it? Oh yea.....a conditional 6th rounder. WTF

The Pats ****ed up.

It's O.K to criticize the team ya know.....Kraft isn't going to ban you from buying more Patriot feet P.J's

Click to expand...

Your statement is wrong not because we might not have won the SB with Lloyd, but because:

1. there's no way to know if Lloyd would have performed well for us without McDaniels as the OC. Lloyd is a phenomenal talent, but has been on like 6 different teams or something absurd. What does that tell you? Right, sometimes head case.

2. you assume there's any way in the world for the Patriots to have known that Lloyd was the difference between winning and losing a Super Bowl. If they had KNOWN he would have won them the SB, I'm sure they would've gotten him. Instead, they made the best decision they could with the information they had, on him and as to the rest of the team. Maybe the Patriots thought Branch would be better than he really was outside the hash marks.

3. Somewhat a repeat of point 1, but your'e building a team, not just collecting talent. The Eagles learned that the hard way last year.


It's a bit silly to criticize for something that was only a "mistake" when one is looking at things in hindsight. If you went through life thinking of all the "mistakes" you made because if you had only known XYZ, then you'd end up pretty miserable. You make the best decision you can with the information avaialble and live with it. As long as the thought process behind the decision is sound, then your decision -- though in the long run perhaps not the best -- isn't really a "mistake".

Deus Irae said:

You started off by pinning that on O'Brien, now it's a poor decision by Brady. You've just made my point about your post.

Click to expand...

The refusal to try something else in the fourth is what was being put on bo'b...I didn't like the call coming out the gate either but what do I know.

You going to offer up something yourself or sit back and nit pick and argue semantics as you usually do?

There were plenty of things that contributed to the loss, I simply feel that relying on the pass instead of trying to run the rock while chewing up clock trumps many of them. Fact of the matter is we still had the lead at that point, with ninety something yards in front of us to erase clock with. Solder was beginning to look like a rookie and Brady was feeling the heat as a result. Why not at least call a few to let the oline assert some dominance and make that dline have to take it down a notch?


Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2

woolster22 said:

The refusal to try something else in the fourth is what was being put on bo'b...I didn't like the call coming out the gate either but what do I know.

You going to offer up something yourself or sit back and nit pick and argue semantics as you usually do?

Click to expand...

First, I offer up "something" as often as anyone on the board.

Second, there's really nothing here to offer up other than noting how lousy your post was. As I noted, I already pointed out one area where it was just garbage, by pointing out you initially blaming O'Brien for the safety and then changing to blame Brady.

Poor decision making doesn't change the fact that to me it was a dangerous, arrogant play call. Akin to going deep to randy on fourth down in the first loss to the giants a few years back. The fact that we didn't even have a body in the backfield outside of Brady seems even crazier. Why not at least make them acknowledge the possibility of a run? This from a spot on the field where others have stated a run is generally deemed to safe and correct play call.

Again, I wait to hear why this stance is so stupid, but Herr Deus rarely explains and simply announces his golden opinion while cherry picking various statements and ignoring the general argument being made. Apparently trying to throw BO'B a bone and acknowledging Brady was at fault as well for the safety means that I also think BO'B is not to blame at all. I am not stating that bo'b was the only problem, simply that some of those decisions, to me, were inexcusable.

Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2

BradyManny said:

Yeah, my least favorite parts of the Super Bowl were when Bill O'Brien dropped a game-changer and when Bill O'Brien failed to jump on two NY Giant fumbles. That and when he threw an interception to Gronk. I would rank those as Bill O'Brien's worst plays in that game.

Face it, the team didn't execute. Coaching was a bigger factor in SB42. SB46, we outcoached them - the Giants were, based purely on health, the better roster and we had them where we wanted them and didn't pull the trigger.

Click to expand...

Never said the players had no faults of their own. I can't really lay the blame on the d, they played pretty well and performed better than they had much I'd the season. A dropped pass happens. It is part of the dangers of living strictly iv the pass. Solder was being abused (not sold on him going into this year, I hope he proves me wrong) and was continually asked to play from his heals instead of dictating the LOS via the run. That is a completely controllable factor that was ignored by the guy calling the plays.

Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2

I think having Lloyd here will be a huge benefit for our DB's. He has very unique body control and our young DB's matching up against him in practice will gain experience playing against a deep threat who can go up and get it. Might not seem like a big deal matching up against Lloyd gives them experience in something they only saw in games last year..

In hindsight we also might have won the Superbowl if we had drafted Demarco Murray instead of Shane Vereen. Or lets go back a bit further, what if we had drafted Mike Wallace instead of Brandon Tate? It's easy to play the 20/20 game. But since there's no time machine. Let's just enjoy Lloyd while we have him.

So far Lloyd looks to be one of the best Pats FA acquisitions of the offseason. The Pats offense in 2011 was already machine-like in its precision and ability to pick apart defenses. It is going to be ridiculously awesome if Lloyd works out as expected and Gronk and Hernandez continue to progress.

Oh and riddle me this, what if Bolden carves out a roster spot for himself and wins signficant snaps on offense. What added dimension will he add, a RB who can consistently get to the edges, but with the size and strength to take on linebackers? Interesting!

What We Learned from New England Patriots Training Camp, 7/29 | Bleacher Report

was a big fan of signing Lloyd when he was at Denver, never mind when he went to St Louis...when Josh came back I, and a lot of others here, figured Lloyd would follow...this was met with harsh criticism by a certain contingent of number cruncher/lawyers on this board who have this pathologically driven need to always be right about everything. Looks like the guys who like football,know football,played football and care about the game knew what they were talking about...is this as seamless a transition so far as anyone has seen since Moss or what?

Bedard was on last night with Felger

He said it best

The Pats offense will be harder to stop when it matters most this year vs 2007. Defenses are going to have to cover the entire field....were as in 07 you had to just focus on the deep and short stuff.

Lloyd is a much more "balanced" receiver than Moss...which will translate into more drives kept alive.

Agreed

Joker said:

was a big fan of signing Lloyd when he was at Denver, never mind when he went to St Louis...when Josh came back I, and a lot of others here, figured Lloyd would follow...this was met with harsh criticism by a certain contingent of number cruncher/lawyers on this board who have this pathologically driven need to always be right about everything. Looks like the guys who like football,know football,played football and care about the game knew what they were talking about...is this as seamless a transition so far as anyone has seen since Moss or what?

Click to expand...

Anyone that thought Lloyd couldn't come into this offense with or without Josh and excel right away is out of their minds....plain and simple.

That's why I was so upset last year when they didn't go after him harder.

Ouside the numbers was the obvious chink in the armor. If any of the TE's or Welker went down with an injury it was going to be a problem...and it was.

Nordberg said:

Bedard was on last night with Felger

He said it best

The Pats offense will be harder to stop when it matters most this year vs 2007. Defenses are going to have to cover the entire field....were as in 07 you had to just focus on the deep and short stuff.

Lloyd is a much more "balanced" receiver than Moss...which will translate into more drives kept alive.

Agreed

Click to expand...

Bedard is very hit and miss and, if he said that, he was being an idiot. In 2007, teams had to cover the entire field against the Patriots. The WR3 was the short/middle threat.

The difference between the 2012 team and the 2007 team is that 2007 had the better top end skill and overall WR group (Moss/Welker/Gaffney/Stallworth) and pass catching RB (Faulk), but the 2012 team should be significantly stronger at the TE position and , depending upon how many make the team, could have more WR depth.

Deus Irae said:

Bedard is very hit and miss and, if he said that, he was being an idiot. In 2007, teams had to cover the entire field against the Patriots. The WR3 was the short/middle threat.

The difference between the 2012 team and the 2007 team is that 2007 had the better top end skill and overall WR group (Moss/Welker/Gaffney/Stallworth) and pass catching RB (Faulk), but the 2012 team should be significantly stronger at the TE position and , depending upon how many make the team, could have more WR depth.

Click to expand...

I'd agree with that - I think that, even though it was only five years ago, people seem to already forget how unstoppable Moss, in particular, was. We'll probably never see anything like that again. As much as I like Lloyd, he's no Moss, and as much as I like Gronk and Hernandez, they're not quite on Moss's game-changing level.

Deus Irae said:

Bedard is very hit and miss and, if he said that, he was being an idiot. In 2007, teams had to cover the entire field against the Patriots. The WR3 was the short/middle threat.

The difference between the 2012 team and the 2007 team is that 2007 had the better top end skill and overall WR group (Moss/Welker/Gaffney/Stallworth) and pass catching RB (Faulk), but the 2012 team should be significantly stronger at the TE position and , depending upon how many make the team, could have more WR depth.

Click to expand...

Agree. The beneficiary of this passing attack should be Aaron Hernandez There will be bigger spaces open over the middle and in the flats for him to operate and use his elusive running ability to pick up chunks of yardage.

Defenses will take a huge risk cheating out of Tampa 2 or Cover 2 with ILBs or Safeties staying in or blitzing against this group of Patriot receivers. Some combination of Gaffney, Stallworth, Branch and Lloyd (three will make the team) will pull the DBs deep so that Hernandez should find himself open or covered by an OLB that he can elude on a very regular basis.

If Josh puts in a consistent screen pass - 2-3 times per game, it makes it even tougher on opposing outside linebackers to know where to put their attention.

Did Bill O'Brien pick the wrong year to take that awful high-paying job or what?

Joker said:

was a big fan of signing Lloyd when he was at Denver, never mind when he went to St Louis...when Josh came back I, and a lot of others here, figured Lloyd would follow...this was met with harsh criticism by a certain contingent of number cruncher/lawyers on this board who have this pathologically driven need to always be right about everything. Looks like the guys who like football,know football,played football and care about the game knew what they were talking about...is this as seamless a transition so far as anyone has seen since Moss or what?

Click to expand...

I know you loved Lloyd. I think its pretty cool you got him. You have to be really excited. I was the exact same way about P. Thomas at RB.Im a RB nut, watched him at Illinois. Very high on Dixon with the 49ers also. But hes off everyones radar.

I admit Im still on the fence about Lloyd. Im more of a Football player number crunching hybrid. I know Lioyd can do it, same as Ocho could, if he took things seriously. Lloyd has the ability to be a 1000 yrd. #1 WR.
And, I am not of the mind that likes to see people fail, just to be right. I think thats just silly.
I love being wrong and spend may days smiling with the Dunce hat on.
I am very encouraged by what I see in Lloyd. I would love for him to finally start his career as an elite WR, now that he has no excuse to not do that. Hes in the right time and place.

So many good or great WR's fail on other teams. I see training camp as an indicator of his potential, effort, and work ethic. But deep inside I really need 8 season games to buy the jersey. I am rooting for him though, and your football knowledge, as always, is dead on. Llyod has the to ability play at a high level. and hes no rookie.

I heard a great quote in Denver. "The problem is not PM the problem is the WR's not expecting the ball to be passed so quickly and in the numbers as soon as they turn their heads". Toms going to put it where it needs to be in the heat of battle, Lloyd needs to learn to trust and expect it at all times, in the heat of battle on the field. He's never had a QB of Bradys caliber.

Nordberg said:

I love the Pats and the organization to death.

But they really messed up not going after Lloyd last year. Not stepping up cost them last years SB. The Giants wouldn't have been able to clog the middle with Lloyd on the outside.

He could have stepped in mid season no problem. He already knew the playbook

Click to expand...

Is the sky blue in the world you live in?

pherein said:

I heard a great quote in Denver. "The problem is not PM the problem is the WR's not expecting the ball to be passed so quickly and in the numbers as soon as they turn their heads". Toms going to put it where it needs to be in the heat of battle, Lloyd needs to learn to trust and expect it at all times, in the heat of battle on the field. He's never had a QB of Bradys caliber.

Click to expand...

I don't think adjusting to a quickly thrown ball will be a problem for Lloyd. His greatest strength is his tremendous awareness and body control. He maintains intense focus that I've never seen waver. It just looks like time runs slower for him.

I like the sound of Brady to Lloyd from reports!

I look forward to watching them!