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NFL 2012 Receiving Corps Power Rankings


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Ahhhhh

Ya might want to see patsfaninpittsburgh at post #35.

Just saying....

Bother to read?

BTW, the author noted Sproles acknowledging his importance in the passing game. However, since the article does not include RB's in the criteria, RB's are not included in the ranking.

I did read it and I disagree. Read post #42.
 
Agree with us being #1. I just recently thought about all this when thinking about top NFL QB's. I felt like 1-3 could be Brees, Rodgers, Brady in any order and that Brady probably had the most potent recieving corps:

Compare with Packers targets:
Welker = Jennings
Gronk > Jordy
AH > Finley
Lloyd >= Jones (equal at worst unless he's a complete bust, highly unlikely. If he plays as expected, he's better)
Gaffney = Driver (the only one I can really see the packers having the edge, but it's a slight edge and low relevance at the #5 slot)
Compare with Saints:
Welker = Graham
Gronk > Colston
AH > Moore/Sproles
Lloyd >= Henderson/Moore (if Moore, same situation as the Packer comparison to Lloyd)
Gaffney >= ??/Henderson (if Henderson, same situation as the Packer comparison to Lloyd)

Even if you include Sproles as their #3 target and move the others down a slot (would be the ones listed after the /) we still have the slight advantage IMO.

Agreed. However, I feel Gaffney is being overlooked here. I know he will be our #5th option, but he was 25th in receiving yards and 23rd in receptions for WRs, with 68 receptions for 947 yards. (With Grossman at QB) He's improved alot since he left here with his time in Denver and Wahington. He pretty much put up lower end WR1 stats and he's going to be our WR3/5th option. I'd take him over Moore, Henderson, Jones, and Driver, I'd still take Branch over Driver. :D
 
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The only way you get the Patriots to #1 is if you assume that Lloyd returns to 2010 form. If he fizzles, it's still a top 10, maybe top 5 corps, but the Packers, Saints are definitely ahead. A few more as well.

Assuming a guy in his 30s who's been erratic (putting it mildly) is going to have one of his best seasons ever is a little optimistic.
 
I did read it and I disagree. Read post #42.

Got comprehension?

The patsfaninpittsburgh post #35 specifically says the article mentions Sproles. How does patsfaninpittsburgh know that?:confused:

patsfaninpittsburgh did something unique....read the article.:D

Read your post....why are you accusing patsfaninpittsburgh of not reading the article because it mentions Sproles when..............patsfaninpittsburgh specifically mentions the article patsfaninpittsburgh read mentions Sproles per post #35?:confused:

Hello?.....hello?....is there anybody out there?
 
Sproles is a RB. They are comparing WRs and TEs. Why don't you get that?

How much money would you bet that had the author included RB's; numbnuts would have posted that BR's are not part of the "receiving corps" just to hiijack the thread?

He can't help it.
 
The only way you get the Patriots to #1 is if you assume that Lloyd returns to 2010 form. If he fizzles, it's still a top 10, maybe top 5 corps, but the Packers, Saints are definitely ahead. A few more as well.

Assuming a guy in his 30s who's been erratic (putting it mildly) is going to have one of his best seasons ever is a little optimistic.

Lloyd nearly had 1,000 yards last year (966 yards to be exact) even though he didn't play one game and spent the first month in Denver with no real QB. Also, although only playing 11 games in St. Louis, he led the team in receptions by 9 receptions, yards by 252 yards, and TDs by 3 TDs over the second place guy in each category. Don't forget that 6 of the games he played for St. Louis that he had either AJ Feeley or Kellen Clemmens throwing to him. Sam Bradford was already injured by the time Lloyd got to St. Louis and they didn't even play together until Lloyd's third game as a Ram. So he actually had a pretty good year last year considering the talent he had around him.

The last two years, Lloyd has played very well for McDaniels. Last year wasn't the elite WR year of the year before, but it was outstanding when you consider he was having the likes of Feeley, Clemmens, and Kyle Orton throwing to him most of the year. And when Bradford actually played with Lloyd, he was a shell of himself because of injuries.

If he has a similar season as last year, this receiving corp at worst is top three. Especially if Gaffney turns into a solid #3 WR. I expect Lloyd to be better than last year because he was constrained by having some horrible QBs throwing to him. He might not make a huge increase in numbers from last year, but he will make a big difference on the field. He is going to force safeties to play deeps and open up the center of the field. Something that was missing last year. Even if his numbers are down, he will open things up for guys like Welker, Gronk, and Hernandez to make more plays.
 
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Got comprehension?

The patsfaninpittsburgh post #35 specifically says the article mentions Sproles. How does patsfaninpittsburgh know that?:confused:

patsfaninpittsburgh did something unique....read the article.:D

Read your post....why are you accusing patsfaninpittsburgh of not reading the article because it mentions Sproles when..............patsfaninpittsburgh specifically mentions the article patsfaninpittsburgh read mentions Sproles per post #35?:confused:

Hello?.....hello?....is there anybody out there?


You are throwing a hissy fit because someone is questioning whether the author should have included RBs in the discussion. You say that people shouldn't discuss it unless the author discussed it. Well guess what? The author did discuss RBs as part of the receiving corp. Therefore, it is suitable to discuss it. What's more is that it is pretty clear that receiving corps should include RBs since they are involved in the receiving game nearly as much TEs and has been included in such discussions by NFL Films in the past. Are you still having trouble with this? Which part are you having trouble understanding?
 
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Sproles is a RB. They are comparing WRs and TEs. Why don't you get that?

Then maybe they shouldn't have mislabeled their article "receiving corp"?
 
I don't see anyone with a better receiving corps in the NFL, and I'd include NO with Sproles while saying that. If they had stayed healthy, Lloyd and Hernandez would've topped 1,000+ yards. Welker topped 1,500 and Gronkowski had a record setting year in both yardage and TD's. Our #5 and #6 options had 947 yards (Gaffney) and 702 yards (Branch). Throw in 3 backs who can catch the ball in Woodhead, Vereen and Addai and we are absolutely stacked with pass catchers. The only 2 I view as close to us are GB and NO:

New Orleans...
Welker vs Colston: Advantage Welker. If you want to be really generous and call it a push to keep this comparison between the 2 teams weapons close, go for it.

Gronkowski vs Graham: Push, considering we are comparing strictly as pass catchers. Gronkowski is better overall due to the blocking differential and arguably better as a receiver considering he beat Graham slightly in yardage and killed him in TD's. But I'll be generous and call it a wash.

Hernandez vs Sproles: Advantage Hernandez. Sproles is sick overall when you factor in his 6.9 yards per carry as an RB last year but Hernandez outproduced him as a passing game weapon rather easily despite missing 2 games and being limited in who knows how many with that sprained MCL.

Lloyd vs Henderson: Not even close here. Henderson is a really good role player but comparable to Lloyd pre-2010 as a 1 dimensional deep threat. Doesn't stack up to the Lloyd that led NFL in receiving yards in 2010 and followed it up with 966 yards in 15 games with a combination of Kyle Orton, Tim Tebow, AJ Feeley, Sam Bradford and Kellen Clemens last year.

Gaffney vs Moore: Wash. Gaffney has been more productive than Moore recently but I'm chalking that up to having a bigger role. Both are solid possession receivers.

Depth vs depth: Woodhead/Vereen/Addai/Branch vs. Pierre Thomas/Ingram/Ivory/Arrington or Toon. Thomas the most accomplished pass catching RB, while Branch is the most accomplished pass catching WR. Saints have some youth/upside catching ball at WR, Pats at RB. We'll call it a wash.

Next up...GB comparison.
 
Green Bay...

Welker vs. Jennings: Sort of similar to the Colston comparison. Welker is certainly more productive but if you want to call it a push to be generous to the opponent and because Welker isn't the so called "true #1 WR", that's fine. We'll call this a push.

Lloyd vs. Nelson: Push or slight edge to Jordy if you want to be generous. Lloyd's 2 year average is almost indentical to what Nelson did last year with the exception of TD's. Obviously Lloyd didn't have nearly the path that Nelson has to the end zone with Aaron Rodgers throwing him the ball compared to Orton/Tebow/Feeley/Bradford/Clemens. I also didn't give Gronk an edge over Graham based on TD's, but again, to avoid being a homer, anything close I'll give to the opponent. Call this slight edge Nelson.

Gronk vs. Finley: Not close, advantage Gronk. Gronk just had a record setting year while Finley underachieved yet again. Finley is certainly a nice player and big time talent but he's not in Gronk's league as of now.

Hernandez vs Cobb: Big advantage for Hernandez, at least for now. I could actually see Cobb making this a somewhat reasonable comparison by season's end based on his talent level, but he's gotta prove that and last year he struggled to get on the field over Driver who is their Deion Branch, in terms of a rapidly diminishing skill set who knows where to be but not much else. Only he's declined even more than Branch has.

Gaffney vs. Jones: Wash. Gaffney more productive but again, I think that's due to his bigger role elsewhere in recent years. Very different WR's with Jones the inconsistent deep threat with significant talent and Gaffney the reliable possession receiver who gets the most out of his talent. It about evens out.

Role players vs role players: Slight edge Patriots. The Patriots have better weapons to throw to at the RB position and Branch has a little more game left than Driver.

As you can see, the biggest difference between these teams and the Patriots is most drop off after 2 or maybe 3 weapons while the Patriots have 4 Pro Bowl caliber weapons. Team's just can't matchup with the foursome of Welker/Gronk/Hernandez/Lloyd. Nobody else in the league has something like that.
 
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The only way you get the Patriots to #1 is if you assume that Lloyd returns to 2010 form. If he fizzles, it's still a top 10, maybe top 5 corps, but the Packers, Saints are definitely ahead. A few more as well.

Assuming a guy in his 30s who's been erratic (putting it mildly) is going to have one of his best seasons ever is a little optimistic.
Absolutely.

The Giants?
 
Absolutely.

The Giants?

The Giants are two receivers. You got Nicks and Cruz and a bunch of JAGs. Manningham and Ballard were their two best receivers after those two last year and both are gone from the team. The next guy after that is Bradshaw who would be excluded from this poll. Randle Ruben could end up being a stud, but he is a rookie and an unknown especially since rookie WRs tend to not make an impact their rookie seasons (and Randle seems to be a bit of a project).

I'd take Welker, Gronk, and Hernandez over Nicks, Cruz, and Bradshaw. I will take the rest of the Pats' receiving corp over the rest of the Giants' receiving corp. Even if lloyd, Gaffney, and Stallworth are busts, the Pats have a better receiving corp.
 
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Hayes was cooked. He was done. I'm not sure how you keep missing the obvious here. Again, not one receiver has come to the Patriots while playing well elsewhere, failed in NE because of playbook issues, and gone on to play well elsewhere.

In other words, there's no evidence, at all, that playbook has been a barrier in NE for a guy who was still able to make it at a decent level in the NFL. If Johnson works out in Miami, he'll be the first example, and even he'll come with a caveat, since we now have reports that he struggled with the playbook even in Cincinnati.

Additionally, even if we granted that the playbook was an insurmountable barrier for some guys... so what? There's no shortage of receivers who can come in and pick up the offense right away, so the drawbacks aren't huge. Provided that there are a lot of benefits to running an offense with so many WR reads (and I think that there are, especially when you have a QB like Brady), these benefits surely outweigh the drawbacks.

At most, we're looking at a couple of guys over the course of a decade who couldn't figure the playbook out. OTOH, there have been plenty of guys like Givens, Branch, Welker, Moss, Gaffney, etc., who have demonstrated the ability to step in and get the job done in their first season with the team. It's an overstated problem, to say the least.
 
The only way you get the Patriots to #1 is if you assume that Lloyd returns to 2010 form. If he fizzles, it's still a top 10, maybe top 5 corps, but the Packers, Saints are definitely ahead. A few more as well.

Assuming a guy in his 30s who's been erratic (putting it mildly) is going to have one of his best seasons ever is a little optimistic.

Even assuming that Lloyd performs to 2011 form--aka he experiences no bump in production despite upgrading from Tebow/Bradford et al to Brady as QB--the Patriots still have nearly the best receiving corps in the NFL. If he splits the difference between 2011 and 2010, Pats are probably the best.

Why? Because Gronk/Hernandez is so far ahead of any other TE receiving tandem that it's simply game-changing. Add two edge receivers who have proven that they can produce in our system, and it's pure chicken-littleism to assume that they'll be anything less than one of the very best units (probably the best) in the league.
 
...
So let's just ask this question (which seems to be what the original article was asking): Which teams' collection of WR and TE would you prefer? Forget RBs for a minute and just go with WR and TE. In that case, I think, obviously, a great case can be made for the Patriots' WR/TE group to be ranked #1. A case can also be made for New Orleans and Green Bay as well, I think. But NE has to be right in that top tier - which makes sense, given that NE has a top 3 passing attack, along with NO and GB.

If you broaden the question and ask, which set of skill players (excluding QB) would you rather have, I think it might tilt towards NO, because I would prefer their RBs to NE's, even though I really like NE's running back corps.

So it's all in how you ask the question and what you're trying to rank. In any case, one thing is for sure: if Brady stays healthy and upright, he should throw for a ridiculous number of yards and touchdowns and this offense could be epic. I don't think anyone disputes that.

First, I think it's unfair to keep the RBs out of the discussion. That removes 147 of 472 receptions from the Saints, which means that people are basically saying "If we take away just under 1/3 of the Saints passing offense and compare it to the Patriots....".

Second, I'm very happy with the current lineup of Patriots WRs (Welker/Lloyd/Gaffney/Branch/other WRs, and I'm very happy with the current Patriots TE starters, and I'm very comfortable with a healthy Danny Woodhead catching passes out of the backfield. Hell, I was one of the people who was the most vocal about wanting Lloyd, and I was in favor of bringing in Gaffney the moment he was available. I think that the Patriots have an opportunity to continue assaulting the passing records, and I think that the Patriots and Steelers have the best passing corps in the AFC. I'm just not going to buy that this group is better than the other elites until I see it on the field.

I'm not rating Peyton as a top QB until I see that, either, and that doesn't seem to be particularly controversial here.
 
First, I think it's unfair to keep the RBs out of the discussion. That removes 147 of 472 receptions from the Saints, which means that people are basically saying "If we take away just under 1/3 of the Saints passing offense and compare it to the Patriots....".

Second, I'm very happy with the current lineup of Patriots WRs (Welker/Lloyd/Gaffney/Branch/other WRs, and I'm very happy with the current Patriots TE starters, and I'm very comfortable with a healthy Danny Woodhead catching passes out of the backfield. Hell, I was one of the people who was the most vocal about wanting Lloyd, and I was in favor of bringing in Gaffney the moment he was available. I think that the Patriots have an opportunity to continue assaulting the passing records, and I think that the Patriots and Steelers have the best passing corps in the AFC. I'm just not going to buy that this group is better than the other elites until I see it on the field.

I'm not rating Peyton as a top QB until I see that, either, and that doesn't seem to be particularly controversial here.

That's fair, but it's also what makes all of this offseason speculation kinda meaningless. I agree that the edge should always go to the unit that's shown that it can go out on the field and get it done together, but I also think that improvements need to be accounted for when they're clearly made. We're all just projecting at this point, and going with what we expect that we'll see once the season starts. It's a balancing act, and everyone weights it differently, and that's part of the debate.

In general, I like to deal with it by assuming that there will be some drop in production, but that it will remain roughly in-line with the role in question and past production in similar roles. For example, I feel comfortable assuming that Lloyd will produce at least on par with his 2011 numbers, that Gaffney will be superior to Branch, and that as a side effect of this Welker's and Gronk's numbers will dip, while Hernandez's stay about level if he remains healthy, and dip if he doesn't.

Based on this, I would agree with a general assessment that the best four passing offenses in the NFL are currently New England, Green Bay, New Orleans, and Pittsburgh. Of those, I think that the Packers' receiving corps is the worst of the four, because after you get past their top two options they're not even close to the other 3 in terms of depth. I'd probably rank the Steelers #3 because they lack the game-changing tight end that you get with New Orleans or New England. As far as ranking the Saints vs. the Pats, it all depends, as you said, on how well the end product comes together on the field. The Pats probably have a higher ceiling, considering what they were able to do last year with nobody to threaten defenses vertically, but the Saints have already done it. I understand the merits of going with either one.
 
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That's fair, but it's also what makes all of this offseason speculation kinda meaningless. I agree that the edge should always go to the unit that's shown that it can go out on the field and get it done together, but I also think that improvements need to be accounted for when they're clearly made. We're all just projecting at this point, and going with what we expect that we'll see once the season starts. It's a balancing act, and everyone weights it differently, and that's part of the debate.

In general, I like to deal with it by assuming that there will be some drop in production, but that it will remain roughly in-line with the role in question and past production in similar roles. For example, I feel comfortable assuming that Lloyd will produce at least on par with his 2011 numbers, that Gaffney will be superior to Branch, and that as a side effect of this Welker's and Gronk's numbers will dip, while Hernandez's stay about level if he remains healthy, and dip if he doesn't.

Based on this, I would agree with a general assessment that the best four passing offenses in the NFL are currently New England, Green Bay, New Orleans, and Pittsburgh. Of those, I think that the Packers' receiving corps is the worst of the four, because after you get past their top two options they're not even close to the other 3 in terms of depth. I'd probably rank the Steelers #3 because they lack the game-changing tight end that you get with New Orleans or New England. As far as ranking the Saints vs. the Pats, it all depends, as you said, on how well the end product comes together on the field. The Pats probably have a higher ceiling, considering what they were able to do last year with nobody to threaten defenses vertically, but the Saints have already done it. I understand the merits of going with either one.

Let's put it this way....

In a year where Tom Brady threw for over 5,000 yards, the Patriots still finished more than 250 yards behind the Saints in total passing yardage.

"But what about average per pass, where the Patriots were actually better than the Saints? What about that, huh?"

Well, in a year where the Patriots averaged 8.6 ypa, the Packers averaged a much better 9.3 ypa.

The Patriots were 3rd in TDs in that group, 7 behind the Saints and 12 behind the Packers.

While I'm certainly mindful of the significance of the Patriots having 5 900+ yards receivers and a 700 yards receiver on the roster all in the very next season, I just can't put the Patriots above that until I see it on the field, because The Saints and Packers have stayed relatively intact and we're looking at truly elite offensive groupings here. If others want to preach on about the Patriots group a bit earlier than myself, that's their call and I understand it even if I don't agree with it.

To me, what's more significant than "better receiving group" with these three is "better defense come playoff time". To me, that's where I see a chance for the Patriots to gain a very important edge.
 
Let's put it this way....

In a year where Tom Brady threw for over 5,000 yards, the Patriots still finished more than 250 yards behind the Saints in total passing yardage.

"But what about average per pass, where the Patriots were actually better than the Saints? What about that, huh?"

Well, in a year where the Patriots averaged 8.6 ypa, the Packers averaged a much better 9.3 ypa.

The Patriots were 3rd in TDs in that group, 7 behind the Saints and 12 behind the Packers.

While I'm certainly mindful of the significance of the Patriots having 5 900+ yards receivers and a 700 yards receiver on the roster all in the very next season, I just can't put the Patriots above that until I see it on the field, because The Saints and Packers have stayed relatively intact and we're looking at truly elite offensive groupings here. If others want to preach on about the Patriots group a bit earlier than myself, that's their call and I understand it even if I don't agree with it.

To me, what's more significant than "better receiving group" with these three is "better defense come playoff time". To me, that's where I see a chance for the Patriots to gain a very important edge.

In a year where Drew Brees threw for 5,476 yards, the Saints still threw for barely 250 yards more than the Patriots. In other words, I'm not sure what the significance of that point is. Brees is no more likely to duplicate 2011 than Brady is. Less, probably, since unlike Brady he doesn't have improved weapons to work with.

I agree that the Patriots' receivers were the worst of the group in question last year. There wasn't a WR on the roster who could really threaten the defense vertically--even as a possession guy--and that's a critical component of the passing game. The fact that they were even in the conversation last year really just speaks to how dominant they were in the phases where they actually excelled.

I'd also hesitate to assign as much significance to YPA as you seem inclined to. For as long as Wes Welker is the Pats' top WR, they're likely to always lag in that regard. Of all of the ways in which not having an actual edge receiver hurt the Pats, that's one of the biggest. It's also one of the areas where Lloyd could help the most, considering that he averaged almost 18 YPC over his three years in Denver. But even then, it probably won't be a strength. Even assuming that Nelson regresses a bit from last year, Green Bay will probably always have the edge there, because they're not as TE and slot oriented as the Pats are.

We also haven't even mentioned that all four of the teams in question have lost their offensive coordinators (or, in the Saints' case, head coach) from last year. The Patriots are the only team for which you can make a fairly compelling case that, rather than losing valuable coaching talent, they likely upgraded.

All in all, though, I do agree that none of this really matters until the Patriots get it done on the field. It seems like I'm a little more willing to place current value in projections based on what Lloyd and Gaffney have done in this system in the past, and I'm also bullish on Josh McDaniels in general. Given weapons that can perform in the Patriots' system, I can't imagine how he and Brady don't make it work. But that doesn't make it any less of meaningless speculation, for now.
 
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You are throwing a hissy fit because someone is questioning whether the author should have included RBs in the discussion. You say that people shouldn't discuss it unless the author discussed it. Well guess what? The author did discuss RBs as part of the receiving corp. Therefore, it is suitable to discuss it. What's more is that it is pretty clear that receiving corps should include RBs since they are involved in the receiving game nearly as much TEs and has been included in such discussions by NFL Films in the past. Are you still having trouble with this? Which part are you having trouble understanding?

patfaninpittsburgh is having trouble understanding this continual display of clueless.

You seem hell bent on re-reverse contradicting yourself.

Let's recap.

An article is posted on an individual's opinion of the NFL "receiving corps".

The author defines "receiving corps" as WR's/TE's.

The author ranks New Orleans second but acknowledges the importance of Sproles but doesn't include him in the rankings because RB's are part of the author's "receiving corps" criteria.

Numbnuts naturally hiijacks the thread whining about RB's being excluded.
Had the author included RB's...the same "contrarian" would have hiijacked the thread complaing RB's should be excluded.

You have both whined about RB's being excluded and are whining to patsfaninpittsburgh that RB's are included.

Reread the bold paragraph to understand the concept of the article.

Amazing that someone could directly contradict themselves and be even more wrong.

BTW, did it ever occurr to you that utilizing a RB likes Sproles is essential because the author defined "receiving corps" isn't as good?
 
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