Wes Welker: Contract talks with Pats have gotten worse

mgteich said:

Is Welker's $9.5M guaranteed? If not, what would he receive in case of injury in camp?

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patfanken said:

Mo, sounds like you are studying up for the agents' test. INSULTING. You've GOT to be kidding. The only player I can think of who got anything CLOSE to that offer who is around Welker's age and size is Steve Smith (as was pointed out) But he plays a different position, is faster, and a PROVEN outside threat, playing in a completely different offense.....and his real deal only averages $7MM/yr So how is THAT an insult.

Name me a slot receiver Welker's age and size who has ever produced at an elite level when they were 32-35. Name me one whose production didn't fall off the table when the "hit the wall". And how is it insulting when you offer a player roughly a 33% raise, and guarantee it 2 years

Mo, the Pats seem perfectly willing to pay Welker a lot more than $6MM for THIS season because they think he probably has a at least on more great year in him. Paying him more than $6-7MM past that point you are playing with fire, and are likely to end up overpaying.

You are clearly in the camp that believe Welker should be paid for his PAST production. And if I believed in this philosophy, I'd be hammering the Pats too. But I believe in creating contracts that pay for expected FUTURE production.

So why don't we compromise. Why not create a contract that Guarantees Welker $16-18MM, and averages $6-7MM/yr in base salaries, but then has incentives that would expand that income into the 8-10MM range IF he defies the odds and continues to put up similar numbers to what he's done the past 5 years.

This way the agent is happy because he can say he's got Welker a deal that averages 9MM/yr, and the Pats are happy because they know that if his production slips, they're only on the hook for 6MM/yr, or the $16MM guarantee.

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KontradictioN said:

Pat Kirwin said it best: Don't insult Welker. Let him taste the market for a little bit. If someone else offers him $95, you offer him $90.

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mayoclinic said:

Predictably, the Pats reportedly aren't happy with Welker's public comments:

Wes Welker's recent comments leave Patriots unhappy - NFL.com

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MoLewisrocks said:

Welker saying he wasn't going to worry about his contract isn't an indication that his agents stopped attempting to negotiate one. What we heard on that down the stretch was when they couldn't get the 2 year $16M deal done with him they moved on and got a deal done early with Jerod Belichick... And I don't call him that to be unkind, his teamates call him that. Perhaps jokingly, perhaps only half jokingly...

Thing is the $16M they offered him was likely really a 3 year $20M deal with his remaining year on his 2007 deal rolled in. So less than $7M per. Now they are offering him less than they were offering him last season. Considering the season he had, that is bizarre indeed. I would definitely give some reason to believe he is being penalized for the way the last game of the season ended. And that would be wrong on so many levels...

Felger has long contended that they have to win at everything, even the negotiations. I think there is something to that. We're almost all in favor of this organization not going out and paying stupid money to players just to attract or retain them. Unfortunately they tend to take (almost) every negotiation to the mat. Mayo being the lone recent exception. And the odd thing there was he didn't appear to have to take the early discount everyone else who played ball and signed early did. His new money AAV on the extension is $9.7M, top 3 LB money. I know he was DROY, but after that he battled some injuries and struggled some and didn't turn in another pro bowl performance in the interim. I know he sleeps on a cot in Bill's office in the offseason, but what you do on the field matters too and it's not like Welker didn't attend every off season workout or didn't bust his ass to make it back before the bell rang on the next season after he tore his ACL playing in a last regular season game even Bill debated playing him in... And then last season he trumped that by playing his best season ever, at 30, 18 months removed from an ACL.

Mediots keep mistakenly reporting his age as 32. I think that's because the fact that he just turned 31 a couple of weeks ago makes it all even more mindboggling. They handed Chad $6M and extended him for $6M more at age 33 coming off the worst year of his career. Then again, like Mayo... I remember thinking and even saying back in 2005 that people this seemingly bright couldn't also possibly be so dense on another level that they would alienate a guy who had done so much for them while consistently bending over backwards to be a team first player. Yet they were, until Brady's situation went public via Tom E Curran delivering a basically dictated piece courtesy of the Brady camp detailing what the holdup on the extension was... They did the same thing to Wilfork and Mankins, each of whom spoke up - and the one who was most extreme ended up eventually getting the larger deal and one that paid him almost $2M more than they were planning to and made him the highest paid guard in the league.

So don't be so sure they don't hear what gets said about them. I fully expect Jonathan, who has rabitt ears, to take to the airwaves shortly to spin the fabulosity of whatever it is they offered Welker - probably like that deal Adam walked away from to be the highest salaried player at his position - only per the fine print absent any guarantees...

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MoLewisrocks said:

Chad

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patfanken said:

The minute he put his signature on the tender offer ALL of that $9.5MM was guaranteed. If he got hit by a bus tomorrow, the Pats would have to pay that money to his estate.

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patfanken said:

Mo, sounds like you are studying up for the agents' test. INSULTING. You've GOT to be kidding. The only player I can think of who got anything CLOSE to that offer who is around Welker's age and size is Steve Smith (as was pointed out) But he plays a different position, is faster, and a PROVEN outside threat, playing in a completely different offense.....and his real deal only averages $7MM/yr So how is THAT an insult.

Name me a slot receiver Welker's age and size who has ever produced at an elite level when they were 32-35. Name me one whose production didn't fall off the table when the "hit the wall". And how is it insulting when you offer a player roughly a 33% raise, and guarantee it 2 years

Mo, the Pats seem perfectly willing to pay Welker a lot more than $6MM for THIS season because they think he probably has a at least on more great year in him. Paying him more than $6-7MM past that point you are playing with fire, and are likely to end up overpaying.

You are clearly in the camp that believe Welker should be paid for his PAST production. And if I believed in this philosophy, I'd be hammering the Pats too. But I believe in creating contracts that pay for expected FUTURE production.

So why don't we compromise. Why not create a contract that Guarantees Welker $16-18MM, and averages $6-7MM/yr in base salaries, but then has incentives that would expand that income into the 8-10MM range IF he defies the odds and continues to put up similar numbers to what he's done the past 5 years.

This way the agent is happy because he can say he's got Welker a deal that averages 9MM/yr, and the Pats are happy because they know that if his production slips, they're only on the hook for 6MM/yr, or the $16MM guarantee.

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TyronePoole said:

maybe we can now put to rest the "Patriots don't negotiate through the media" meme, seeing as how they've done it as much as anyone recently.

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BrickPat said:

How do you figure? I've only seen info coming from Welker's camp(?)

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NEP4Life said:

Does anyone think Welker is in effect, paying the cost of the Ocho debacle? The Pats flushed about 6 million dollars down the crapper on Ocho. Are they trying to get it back on the Welker deal?

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PatsFanSince74 said:

The catch would have been all the more important for the very fact that there is no way anyone can reasonably say that Welker "should have made" the catch. It would have been an over-the-top, almost miraculous catch made by a great player in his prime; the kind of catch that immortalizes the legacy of a great player and is the top of his "highlight reel" for decades to come.

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PatsFanSince74 said:

...Sentence two. The catch would have been all the more important for the very fact that there is no way anyone can reasonably say that Welker "should have made" the catch. It would have been an over-the-top, almost miraculous catch made by a great player in his prime; the kind of catch that immortalizes the legacy of a great player and is the top of his "highlight reel" for decades to come.

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PatsFanSince74 said:

Those are two independent and quite different sentences.

Sentence one. I think you're naive if you think that a game-saving catch by a star player in his prime to seal the fourth Lombardi of the Belichick/Brady era wouldn't have had an impact on the negotiations, from a fan, media and substance perspective. It would have been far more than "one football play."

Sentence two. The catch would have been all the more important for the very fact that there is no way anyone can reasonably say that Welker "should have made" the catch. It would have been an over-the-top, almost miraculous catch made by a great player in his prime; the kind of catch that immortalizes the legacy of a great player and is the top of his "highlight reel" for decades to come.

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