Chandler Jones or Andre Branch at #27?

I'll man up. So far, I am wrong. Not the first time, won't be the last.

Now let's just see what happens over the next few years.

PatsFanStnfrd said:

Interesting, no one here sees similarity w/ Jason Pierre-Paul of the Giants.

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JPP seems to be the most common comp for Jones, based on physical similarity. (Aldon Jones could work, too.) One thing to note on JPP is that he's not a guy you want to try to teach a complicated defense where he has to diagnose and play multiple roles. He is very, umm, "learning-limited." VERY. Jones looks like a Rhodes Scholar in comparison.

PatsFanStnfrd said:

Interesting, no one here sees similarity w/ Jason Pierre-Paul of the Giants. Admittedly, he is young and a bit of a projection. But he has the rare measurables, is coachable, and comes w/ football pedigree. Think 2013 for his real contributions.

The Eagles would have selected him but for Cox being available to them.

Can't fault BB for taking him -- even if it means taking a chance on him. As Mike Reiss and Peter King have independently pointed out, BB should have selected either Brook Reed or Jabal Sheard last year -- so better late than never. In combination w/ Hightower and Bequette, our front seven may be a force.

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An excellent post.

I think JPP snuffed out a few plays in the SB that stymied what would have otherwise been productive plays. This Belichick must have taken to heart.

I don't think that's controversial to say.
I'd like to see the Combine comparisons between Jones and Pierre. The body similarity is there if Jones puts on 15 pounds.

And I think kudos need to be given to posters here like Captain Stone and Ochmed Jones who were calling for defensive help in last year's draft, esp. on the edge. These guys and many other posters have been proven right.

patchick said:

JPP seems to be the most common comp for Jones, based on physical similarity. (Aldon Jones could work, too.) One thing to note on JPP is that he's not a guy you want to try to teach a complicated defense where he has to diagnose and play multiple roles. He is very, umm, "learning-limited." VERY. Jones looks like a Rhodes Scholar in comparison.

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You mean Aldon Smith?

State said:

An excellent post.

I think JPP snuffed out a few plays in the SB that stymied what would have otherwise been productive plays. This Belichick must have taken to heart.

I don't think that's controversial to say.
I'd like to see the Combine comparisons between Jones and Pierre. The body similarity is there if Jones puts on 15 pounds.

And I think kudos need to be given to posters here like Captain Stone and Ochmed Jones who were calling for defensive help in last year's draft, esp. on the edge. These guys and many other posters have been proven right.

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Jones is only 4 pounds lighter than JPP, not 15. He also has longer arms and a greater wingspan, for what that's worth. He out-tested JPP in every single category except for the 40, and even then his 10-yard split was superior. He similarly bested Aldon Smith (one of my favorites last year), with the only substandard test result coming in the 40.

Ironically, I don't usually care about the 40, but when I saw Jones run down by an offensive lineman on an interception return, and then put up a 4.8 - 4.9 at the combine, I figured he was not a fit as an OLB. Now that I see BB is devising more hybrid schemes, however, I'm excited about Jones' potential as a DE. I still maintain he'll never be great in coverage, and I am not a fan of his technique, but I do think he can grow into quite a presence on the edge. Here's hoping that he far exceeds my expectations and analysis!

makoute said:

You mean Aldon Smith?

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Indeed I do!

State said:

I'd like to see the Combine comparisons between Jones and Pierre. The body similarity is there if Jones puts on 15 pounds.

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Here's a nice breakdown on Jones, which also looks at Jones' vs. JPP's vs. Aldon Smith's measurements:

So you drafted Chandler Jones

They list Jones at 6'4 1/2", but he actually measured in at 6'5 3/8" at the Combine. Although his 40 time is slightly slower than those of Aldon Smith and JPP (which is probably irrelevant), he measures better in EVERY other aspect:

- Length: 85 3/4" wingspan for Jones vs. 83 7/8" for Smith vs. 81" for JPP; 35 1/2" arms for Jones vs. 35 3/8" for Smith vs. 34 6/8" for JPP
- Upper body strength: 22 reps @ 225 for Jones vs. 20 for Smith vs. 19 for JPP
- Explosiveness: 35" vertical for Jones vs. 34" for Smith vs. 30.5" for JPP; 10' broad jump for Jones vs. 9'10" for Smith vs. 9'7" for JPP
- Short area burst: 1.63 10 yard split for Jones vs. 1.65 for JPP vs. 1.68 for Smith
- Agility: 7.07 3-cone for Jones vs. 7.18 for JPP vs. 7.22 for Smith; 4.39 short shuttle for Jones vs. 4.55 for Smith vs. 4.67 for JPP

Obviously, there's no guarantee the results will be the same. But Smith and JPP were steals at #7 and #15 overall, respectively. Jones has a great work ethic, attitude, team-first mentality, and MUCH for smarts than JPP. I'll take my chances.

mayoclinic said:

Here's a nice breakdown on Jones, which also looks at Jones' vs. JPP's vs. Aldon Smith's measurements:

So you drafted Chandler Jones

They list Jones at 6'4 1/2", but he actually measured in at 6'5 3/8" at the Combine. Although his 40 time is slightly slower than those of Aldon Smith and JPP (which is probably irrelevant), he measures better in EVERY other aspect:

- Length: 85 3/4" wingspan for Jones vs. 83 7/8" for Smith vs. 81" for JPP; 35 1/2" arms for Jones vs. 35 3/8" for Smith vs. 34 6/8" for JPP
- Upper body strength: 22 reps @ 225 for Jones vs. 20 for Smith vs. 19 for JPP
- Explosiveness: 35" vertical for Jones vs. 34" for Smith vs. 30.5" for JPP; 10' broad jump for Jones vs. 9'10" for Smith vs. 9'7" for JPP
- Short area burst: 1.63 10 yard split for Jones vs. 1.65 for JPP vs. 1.68 for Smith
- Agility: 7.07 3-cone for Jones vs. 7.18 for JPP vs. 7.22 for Smith; 4.39 short shuttle for Jones vs. 4.55 for Smith vs. 4.67 for JPP

Obviously, there's no guarantee the results will be the same. But Smith and JPP were steals at #7 and #15 overall, respectively. Jones has a great work ethic, attitude, team-first mentality, and MUCH for smarts than JPP. I'll take my chances.

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Good analysis mayo. We've been begging for a guy like Chandler Jones for a couple of years. Like 4 or 5. What are thoughts on Bequette? Some people think he can help immediately. I even think Hightower plays strong side OLB. Even in a 3-4. And, he'll slide inside when Spikes leaves in a couple of years.

Branch will always be my OLB binky from this draft. I think Jones will probably contribute more overall (run game/coverage/ST), but Branch should have a good career too and will probably have more skill stats (sacks/interceptions).

mayoclinic said:

Obviously, there's no guarantee the results will be the same. But Smith and JPP were steals at #7 and #15 overall, respectively. Jones has a great work ethic, attitude, team-first mentality, and MUCH for smarts than JPP. I'll take my chances.

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I'm hopeful as well. A lot will depend on how Jones is used. JPP and Aldon Smith were put into near ideal situations for them and you can see the results. Jones seems to do best when he has the option to speed rush outside. During the draft, I heard the term "speed to power" and I really think it applies to Jones. Because of his height/arm length, a tackle simply can't let him get around the edge with an arm free since the risk of a strip is too great. If the tackle overstrides, Jones has the strength to push them back into the QB's lap. So even if he isn't getting sacks (and he didn't get a lot at Syracuse), he is making the pocket chaotic.

This is why Belichick trades up for Jones and trades down off of Matthews. Matthews (who also plays in a situation ideal for him) gets handled cleanly an inordinate amount of the time simply by escorting him around the pocket. The Packers accept this because of their ability to create confusion and turnovers. This would drive Belichick absolutely insane.

I also don't believe it is a coincidence that Hightower was drafted along with Jones. Hightower isn't track-fast but he is a blur and arrives with authority when rushing between the tackles.

If the Patriots run a vanilla scheme (3-4 or 4-3) like they did last year, I hate this draft. Not that the players aren't talented, but you have to unleash them to realize that talent. I'd like to see a scheme where the Pats always show 5 potential rushers (including Jones outside and Hightower inside) and rush 3-5 of them depending on the play call. If this is the case, I can see a domino effect where the DBs become more effective since the QB and protection need to think more and aren't just running constant 3-step drops to their first reads.

mayoclinic said:

Here's a nice breakdown on Jones, which also looks at Jones' vs. JPP's vs. Aldon Smith's measurements:

So you drafted Chandler Jones

They list Jones at 6'4 1/2", but he actually measured in at 6'5 3/8" at the Combine. Although his 40 time is slightly slower than those of Aldon Smith and JPP (which is probably irrelevant), he measures better in EVERY other aspect:

- Length: 85 3/4" wingspan for Jones vs. 83 7/8" for Smith vs. 81" for JPP; 35 1/2" arms for Jones vs. 35 3/8" for Smith vs. 34 6/8" for JPP
- Upper body strength: 22 reps @ 225 for Jones vs. 20 for Smith vs. 19 for JPP
- Explosiveness: 35" vertical for Jones vs. 34" for Smith vs. 30.5" for JPP; 10' broad jump for Jones vs. 9'10" for Smith vs. 9'7" for JPP
- Short area burst: 1.63 10 yard split for Jones vs. 1.65 for JPP vs. 1.68 for Smith
- Agility: 7.07 3-cone for Jones vs. 7.18 for JPP vs. 7.22 for Smith; 4.39 short shuttle for Jones vs. 4.55 for Smith vs. 4.67 for JPP

Obviously, there's no guarantee the results will be the same. But Smith and JPP were steals at #7 and #15 overall, respectively. Jones has a great work ethic, attitude, team-first mentality, and MUCH for smarts than JPP. I'll take my chances.

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Wow, I'm surprised he measures up so well. Good post. Jones seems skinny to me, very skinny. The other guys seemed bigger.

Also, FWIW JPP could do continuous backflips across the field. Does that translate to success in the NFL? Perhaps

mayoclinic said:

Here's a nice breakdown on Jones, which also looks at Jones' vs. JPP's vs. Aldon Smith's measurements:

So you drafted Chandler Jones

They list Jones at 6'4 1/2", but he actually measured in at 6'5 3/8" at the Combine. Although his 40 time is slightly slower than those of Aldon Smith and JPP (which is probably irrelevant), he measures better in EVERY other aspect:

- Length: 85 3/4" wingspan for Jones vs. 83 7/8" for Smith vs. 81" for JPP; 35 1/2" arms for Jones vs. 35 3/8" for Smith vs. 34 6/8" for JPP
- Upper body strength: 22 reps @ 225 for Jones vs. 20 for Smith vs. 19 for JPP
- Explosiveness: 35" vertical for Jones vs. 34" for Smith vs. 30.5" for JPP; 10' broad jump for Jones vs. 9'10" for Smith vs. 9'7" for JPP
- Short area burst: 1.63 10 yard split for Jones vs. 1.65 for JPP vs. 1.68 for Smith
- Agility: 7.07 3-cone for Jones vs. 7.18 for JPP vs. 7.22 for Smith; 4.39 short shuttle for Jones vs. 4.55 for Smith vs. 4.67 for JPP

Obviously, there's no guarantee the results will be the same. But Smith and JPP were steals at #7 and #15 overall, respectively. Jones has a great work ethic, attitude, team-first mentality, and MUCH for smarts than JPP. I'll take my chances.

Click to expand...

Excellent stuff, Mayo, it's great to have you back here. The more I see about Jones the more I like him. I actually misevaluated him initially, I associated the tape I saw of Andre Branch with Jones, and didnt see the film on Jones at all. I have a feeling he can become Gronk-like on defense.

Gronkandez said:

Also, FWIW JPP could do continuous backflips across the field. Does that translate to success in the NFL? Perhaps

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I wouldnt put too much stock in it, Braylon Edwards can do a cartwheel into a backflip.

Metaphors said:

I'm hopeful as well. A lot will depend on how Jones is used. JPP and Aldon Smith were put into near ideal situations for them and you can see the results. Jones seems to do best when he has the option to speed rush outside. During the draft, I heard the term "speed to power" and I really think it applies to Jones. Because of his height/arm length, a tackle simply can't let him get around the edge with an arm free since the risk of a strip is too great. If the tackle overstrides, Jones has the strength to push them back into the QB's lap. So even if he isn't getting sacks (and he didn't get a lot at Syracuse), he is making the pocket chaotic.

This is why Belichick trades up for Jones and trades down off of Matthews. Matthews (who also plays in a situation ideal for him) gets handled cleanly an inordinate amount of the time simply by escorting him around the pocket. The Packers accept this because of their ability to create confusion and turnovers. This would drive Belichick absolutely insane.

I also don't believe it is a coincidence that Hightower was drafted along with Jones. Hightower isn't track-fast but he is a blur and arrives with authority when rushing between the tackles.

If the Patriots run a vanilla scheme (3-4 or 4-3) like they did last year, I hate this draft. Not that the players aren't talented, but you have to unleash them to realize that talent. I'd like to see a scheme where the Pats always show 5 potential rushers (including Jones outside and Hightower inside) and rush 3-5 of them depending on the play call. If this is the case, I can see a domino effect where the DBs become more effective since the QB and protection need to think more and aren't just running constant 3-step drops to their first reads.

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When I look at film of Jones I see him get a lot of action inside as well as outside. He's very strong, and should get stronger once he adds some muscle to his lower body - that's part of what I liked about in Cam Jordan last year, his massive "hindquarters" and strong base. But Jones is actually pretty strong given how long he is, and he uses his hands extremely well. Mike Tanier of Football Outsiders had this to say about Jones in a profile done for Yahoo's "Shutdown 50":

Most collegiate pass rushers live and die by their quickness to the edge. It's rare to see a defensive end who excels at hand fighting and placement: the fine art of delivering an initial blow to a pass protector, ripping his arms so he cannot latch on, and getting the hands under the blocker's shoulder pads to steer him out of the way. [Jones] excels at these skills. He disengages from blocks easily and can bull rush or work inside of his defender. These skills allow him to be an effective pass rusher when lined up over an offensive tackle, a typical assignment for a Steelers-style 3-4 defensive end. Jones can create pressure while staying within his pass-rushing lane, an essential skill when playing on a team that blitzes frequently.

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The Shutdown 50

I actually think that if Jones adds 10-15 pounds of lower body muscle that he could play the role of an uber-athletic Jarvis Green on 3rd and long out of 4-2-5 or 2-4-5 sets. That combination of length and strength could possibly also allow Jones to 2-gap on occasion, though I wouldn't expect to see a lot of that out of him. He clearly needs to get stronger and develop, but there's a lot of versatility and possibilities.

Snake Eyes said:

I wouldnt put too much stock in it, Braylon Edwards can do a cartwheel into a backflip.

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With good athleticism and body control, flips are easy to learn. They are more mental than anything. I can do double fulls, double backflips, corkscrews, a standing full, etc.

I like watching players who are able to flip or dance or do something outside of football, because they have a higher degree of spatial awareness, generally speaking. So, while not causal, flips definitely correlate with success on the field in my opinion.

Honestly, I'd love to get some of the Patriots players into the gym I run. I could teach them all sorts of movement techniques.

mayoclinic said:

Here's a nice breakdown on Jones, which also looks at Jones' vs. JPP's vs. Aldon Smith's measurements:

So you drafted Chandler Jones

They list Jones at 6'4 1/2", but he actually measured in at 6'5 3/8" at the Combine. Although his 40 time is slightly slower than those of Aldon Smith and JPP (which is probably irrelevant), he measures better in EVERY other aspect:

- Length: 85 3/4" wingspan for Jones vs. 83 7/8" for Smith vs. 81" for JPP; 35 1/2" arms for Jones vs. 35 3/8" for Smith vs. 34 6/8" for JPP
- Upper body strength: 22 reps @ 225 for Jones vs. 20 for Smith vs. 19 for JPP
- Explosiveness: 35" vertical for Jones vs. 34" for Smith vs. 30.5" for JPP; 10' broad jump for Jones vs. 9'10" for Smith vs. 9'7" for JPP
- Short area burst: 1.63 10 yard split for Jones vs. 1.65 for JPP vs. 1.68 for Smith
- Agility: 7.07 3-cone for Jones vs. 7.18 for JPP vs. 7.22 for Smith; 4.39 short shuttle for Jones vs. 4.55 for Smith vs. 4.67 for JPP

Obviously, there's no guarantee the results will be the same. But Smith and JPP were steals at #7 and #15 overall, respectively. Jones has a great work ethic, attitude, team-first mentality, and MUCH for smarts than JPP. I'll take my chances.

Click to expand...

Thanks, that was a good and exciting breakdown.

mayoclinic said:

Here's a nice breakdown on Jones, which also looks at Jones' vs. JPP's vs. Aldon Smith's measurements:

So you drafted Chandler Jones

They list Jones at 6'4 1/2", but he actually measured in at 6'5 3/8" at the Combine. Although his 40 time is slightly slower than those of Aldon Smith and JPP (which is probably irrelevant), he measures better in EVERY other aspect:

- Length: 85 3/4" wingspan for Jones vs. 83 7/8" for Smith vs. 81" for JPP; 35 1/2" arms for Jones vs. 35 3/8" for Smith vs. 34 6/8" for JPP
- Upper body strength: 22 reps @ 225 for Jones vs. 20 for Smith vs. 19 for JPP
- Explosiveness: 35" vertical for Jones vs. 34" for Smith vs. 30.5" for JPP; 10' broad jump for Jones vs. 9'10" for Smith vs. 9'7" for JPP
- Short area burst: 1.63 10 yard split for Jones vs. 1.65 for JPP vs. 1.68 for Smith
- Agility: 7.07 3-cone for Jones vs. 7.18 for JPP vs. 7.22 for Smith; 4.39 short shuttle for Jones vs. 4.55 for Smith vs. 4.67 for JPP

Obviously, there's no guarantee the results will be the same. But Smith and JPP were steals at #7 and #15 overall, respectively. Jones has a great work ethic, attitude, team-first mentality, and MUCH for smarts than JPP. I'll take my chances.

Click to expand...

It'll be interesting in next year's draft to come back to these numbers and compare them to Barkevious Mingo.

reamer said:

With good athleticism and body control, flips are easy to learn. They are more mental than anything. I can do double fulls, double backflips, corkscrews, a standing full, etc.

I like watching players who are able to flip or dance or do something outside of football, because they have a higher degree of spatial awareness, generally speaking. So, while not causal, flips definitely correlate with success on the field in my opinion.

Honestly, I'd love to get some of the Patriots players into the gym I run. I could teach them all sorts of movement techniques.

Click to expand...

I'm with you on that, I wouldnt go with backflips because I think there's far too much risk of injury and not enough benefit from the activity, but I'd much prefer they do more stuff like B-boy/gymnastic/dance work with some World's Strongest Man type exercises, stuff that would more directly translate to their activities, as opposed to weights, which I find generally stupid.

Metaphors said:

I'm hopeful as well. A lot will depend on how Jones is used. JPP and Aldon Smith were put into near ideal situations for them and you can see the results. Jones seems to do best when he has the option to speed rush outside. During the draft, I heard the term "speed to power" and I really think it applies to Jones. Because of his height/arm length, a tackle simply can't let him get around the edge with an arm free since the risk of a strip is too great. If the tackle overstrides, Jones has the strength to push them back into the QB's lap. So even if he isn't getting sacks (and he didn't get a lot at Syracuse), he is making the pocket chaotic.

This is why Belichick trades up for Jones and trades down off of Matthews. Matthews (who also plays in a situation ideal for him) gets handled cleanly an inordinate amount of the time simply by escorting him around the pocket. The Packers accept this because of their ability to create confusion and turnovers. This would drive Belichick absolutely insane.

I also don't believe it is a coincidence that Hightower was drafted along with Jones. Hightower isn't track-fast but he is a blur and arrives with authority when rushing between the tackles.

If the Patriots run a vanilla scheme (3-4 or 4-3) like they did last year, I hate this draft. Not that the players aren't talented, but you have to unleash them to realize that talent. I'd like to see a scheme where the Pats always show 5 potential rushers (including Jones outside and Hightower inside) and rush 3-5 of them depending on the play call. If this is the case, I can see a domino effect where the DBs become more effective since the QB and protection need to think more and aren't just running constant 3-step drops to their first reads.

Click to expand...

Metaphors, you're a genius.

I think you've got this thing figured out.

I love this thread.

Chandler Jones is going to make a lot of people here look silly.