Kiper: Patriots Reached on Day Two

The older I get, the less I care about what Mel Kiper thinks.

Snake Eyes said:

I'm criticizing a pick, a pick. We all know not every pick works out but that doesn't mean every pick was a smart decision, there's a difference between the two.

The funny thing is that I can actually admit when I'm wrong, and I've been wrong before, but the BB Kool-Aid drinkers can't ever admit that a pick was garbage, even long after it's failed, I just hear people talk about when he's been right.

Click to expand...

Actually the "funny thing" is that you are calling the kid "garbage" without seeing him play. It's bullsh.t. You are also claiming he would still be there when you have absolutely no idea whatsoever who would have taken him or when. The Seahawks took Bruce Irvin in the mid first when everyone said he would be there at 50, so there is no way to know who will be taken where for fans, whereas front offices have a much better sense of how other teams see prospects and how long they will last.


If Wilson fails all of you can come back in here and crow about how much smarter than Belichick you are, doing it now makes all of you look like idiots. On e thing is certain, if he turns out to be a good player then none of you will admit how dumb you were, just as none have admitted how wrong they were when they took Light, Mankins, and Vollmer.

As for Kiper, he said the Colts should have taken Ryan Leaf, nuff said.

Good point, Ivan.

If someone had taken Bruce Irvin at #14, would that have been a reach?

Would people be saying they could have traded down and got him at the end of round 1, or maybe even round 2?

shmessy said:

Well, your definition of not "squandering resources" and being the "unquestioned master of navigating a draft board up or down" evidently includes this formula:

62 = 90 + 163 > 67 = 87 + 120

Sorry, but I reserve the right to "question" this "unquestioned mastery".

Click to expand...

I've heard a few people mention that other deal later in the round, where a lower pick got more in return. Relative to similar deals in past drafts and this one, we definitely got poor value for our #62. Haven't heard any explanation as to why. Apparently the team that traded up to 67 wasn't thinking trade 20 minutes earlier, because they'd have been fools to trade to 67 when for the same price they could've moved up to 62. Maybe the Pats didn't advertise the pick until too late or something, maybe they almost had another deal that fell apart with a minute left - I don't know. Was weird though.

However, our brain trust recovered nicely from that, realizing 4 players in exchange for that pick, 2 of whom look like sure pretty sure contributors.

State said:

But I believe Belichick likes to stir the pot. I think he enjoyed seeing The Hair (Mel Kiper) rendered speechless. I know Ron Zook from my own sources thinks very highly of the player selected.

Click to expand...

I don't believe that, at all. I honestly believe that he couldn't care less.

David Terrell, Vernon Gholston, Jimmy Kennedy, Chad Jackson, the list is long of draftnik favorites who the Patriots have passed on or have actually taken in Chad Jackson's case that flat out sucked as pro's. One thing is absolutely certain, if Belichick went with the draftnik favorites to build this team it would have sucked for the last 12 years. Those examples were just off the top of my head, if i were to go back and review the last 12 draft's and list the draftnik favorites that ended up sucking it would become beyond obvious just how flawed their opinions of themselves is. And don't get me wrong as I am in no way damning all of you who love the draft, follow it closely, and offer up mocks and opinions on it, only the ridiculous few who actually have the audacity to claim they know better than Belichick and this team when it comes to drafting, and who routinely shriek about the drafting day in and day out. Having opinions and favorites makes perfect sense, claiming you know better and could do better is perfectly stupid.

“Jamarcus Russell’s gonna immediately energize that Raider Nation, that fanbase, that football team- on the practice field, in that locker room- three years from now you could be looking at a guy that’s certainly one of the elite top five quarterbacks in this league.

You’re talking about a 2-3 year period once he’s under center. Look out because skill level that he has is certainly John Elway like.”



There's the QB..............

"Ki-Jana (Carter) could be the next Bo Jackson"


There's the RB...................

Wow, Mel does free agency as well as the draft, he's multi talented:

"Wes Welker is not worth a second round pick. I don't care how much you like his work ethic ... he has done nothing to show a value that high"




You know what Mel? Many here still agree with your assessment, as one of your clones put it "he's 100% expendable."




There goes the receiver.............better find one to replace him.

Here's one, Big Mike Williams, future hall of famer:


Mel had Wide Receiver Mike Williams as the best player in the entire 2005 draft. Pretty much every other ESPN analyst disagreed and said that Williams had too many outside issues and was too slow, but Mel stuck to his guns and said "see you at his Hall of Fame induction?"


Many felt that would have to be in 2011 because he was Mel's top pick in 2005.


I may have to face it, Kiper's word is solid gold, good thing the draftniks live and die by it..

Still need a couple more WR's now that he passed on Welker, who was in no way worth a 2nd.






Gonna have to find a MLB too, as he said Chris Spielman was only worth a fourth or fifth when the Lions had him as the 29th player on their board.

I'll be back later with Charles Rogers, but right now i have to find a DL to take Seymour's spot, because the Patriots blew it when they passed on Terrell and Koren Robinson, both on their way to Canton, unlike Seymour who was a complete bust.


New England Patriots: They needed to get more weapons for Drew Bledsoe, but instead they went for Richard Seymour at defensive tackle, another position where they needed help.

Nice work Ivan! :rocker:

Ivan said:

I'll be back later with Charles Rogers, but right now i have to find a DL to take Seymour's spot, because the Patriots blew it when they passed on Terrell and Koren Robinson, both on their way to Canton, unlike Seymour who was a complete bust.


New England Patriots: They needed to get more weapons for Drew Bledsoe, but instead they went for Richard Seymour at defensive tackle, another position where they needed help.

Click to expand...

This one isn't nearly as good as Ron Borges' version......

I don't think many here realize just how easy it will be to build the worst team of all time with Mel's top players.

PlainOldEd said:

This one isn't nearly as good as Ron Borges' version......

Click to expand...

Agree completely, unfortunately I am constrained by Mel's genius for purposes of this thread, so couldn't bring Wrong Borges into the equation, it wouldn't be fair to The Hair.

Damn, did I speak too soon? I selected Jamarcus Russell as Mel's franchise QB when he said the Colts should have taken Ryan Leaf. What to do what to do? maybe I will build negative value by taking them both and letting them not bother to fight it out. Right now however Jamarcus has the edge because Leaf is in jail.

Ivan said:

"Ki-Jana (Carter) could be the next Bo Jackson"


There's the RB...................

Click to expand...

To be fair, Mel was right on this one. As Carter's career was also derailed by injury.

Kiper reached on his job!!!

As for his grade - the good news is that he didn't t get any worse - the bad news is that he still got an F

I am kind of used to Kiper ... so whatever. I don't really take anything he has to say too seriously. Overall most of these guys kind of know the players but they don't have any insight at the the time to say anything too intelligent beyond the first round or so.

patsfan13 said:

The only thing that mattered is where the Patriots had him rated on thier board. If when their pick came up they had him as the #1 player available when thier pick came up, you take him.


You don't say well Mel and Todd think he will be available in the 5th round so we will take the #2 player available caause Mel thinks he is a good value?


You either go with your board or why have a board at all?

Click to expand...

When the Pats came up at #7 in 2008, Jerod Mayo was likely the #1 guy on their board. But they traded down to #10 because they knew that they could get Mayo there, plus some extra draft ammo. This is the one caveat that I think your analysis is missing.

That said, I'm not inherently against the Wilson pick. If the Pats thought that there was a decent chance that someone was going to be taking him imminently, and they really wanted the guy, then by all means take him. I don't care that Kiper thinks he sucks, because Kiper's an idiot.

If it's true that the Pats could have traded down and got Wilson later in the draft, then they should have done that. That said, the fact that they picked him with their first second rounder, rather than their second second rounder, pretty strongly suggests that that wasn't the case. Based on how everything went down, the Pats probably thought that Wilson wasn't going to last much longer.

As for whether or not it was a good pick, we won't know that for at least a year or two.