Breer: Patriots inquiring about #12 from Seattle

Barron, brockers or fletcher cox i would take any of the 3 but would prefer brockers/cox

I understand the philosophy of value and trying to spread risk, but eventually the only way to get impact guys when your picking so low is to use the ammo to trade up or be great at finding steals in the 2nd round that pan out.

We're pretty even with hits and busts in the 2nd round, so in the end I feel like we end up with some great players, but still have glaring holes every year. It'll be awful if we trade up for a guy and he busts, but eventually don't you have to do something? This defense is god awful and I'm always optimistic about the D improving but it just hasn't happened. Honestly the way the D is trending we might as well just draft all offense and try to outscore everyone and HOPE we can scrap together 28 points a game in the playoffs (which we haven't been able to do because surprise surprise defense still wins championships).

Oh well, I have class tonight so I'll be back in time to watch us draft a guard projected in the 3rd round. I really wonder what the point of our perpetual extra 2nd rounder is when that guy is always a bust.. Brace, Cunningham, Ras/Vereen (I know jury is still out on them, but I can't imagine BOTH will be great players after both were injured their entire rookie years, so I'm guessing one busts).

...I got the first of what could be many 'time out - overload' errors today on this one...

My guess would be due diligence in case Fletcher Cox is available. I see him as the type of unique difference-maker Belichick would target. Three-year starter, size, speed, quickness, productivity, versatility, no red flags.

Big-T said:

Mark Barron?

He would be worth the trade up, Luke Kuechly too.

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Kuechly would be my favorite pick in years. I'd be thrilled to get him, though he'd be a luxary with Mayo and Spikes as well as Dane Fletcher who could play ILB. If they did this, maybe Mayo could move to the outside to provide a blitz. Safety is more of a need though, and wouldn't complain if we landed Barron, though I think Kuechly is more of a sure thing.

jukes said:

Barron, brockers or fletcher cox i would take any of the 3 but would prefer brockers/cox

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Barron would make more sense than the other two as he has actual experience playing in our system.

Brettlax3434 said:

I would love if we traded up for Chandler Jones or Mark Barron. Both impact players IMO.

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I'm a Syracuse alum. Don't get me wrong, I'd be happy if the Pats landed Chandler Jones, but I don't get the "he's a top half of the first round talent" notion. Nice player, definitely a pro, will become a solid NFL player. But a wrecking machine at DE/OLB? I don't know about that. I am pretty sure I wouldn't trade up to get him.

Now, if the Pats do and he does become a wrecking machine, I will be happy to have been wrong.

The late love for Barron has been interesting to watch, as the early read on him was that he had issues and would quite possibly not be a high pick.

Leemo said:

Both are names that spring to mind, so are Fletcher Cox and even Quinton Coples....

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No way BB trades up for coples, not after the fat albert experiment didn't work.

Brady2Moss said:

I understand the philosophy of value and trying to spread risk, but eventually the only way to get impact guys when your picking so low is to use the ammo to trade up or be great at finding steals in the 2nd round that pan out.

We're pretty even with hits and busts in the 2nd round, so in the end I feel like we end up with some great players, but still have glaring holes every year. It'll be awful if we trade up for a guy and he busts, but eventually don't you have to do something? This defense is god awful and I'm always optimistic about the D improving but it just hasn't happened. Honestly the way the D is trending we might as well just draft all offense and try to outscore everyone and HOPE we can scrap together 28 points a game in the playoffs (which we haven't been able to do because surprise surprise defense still wins championships).

Oh well, I have class tonight so I'll be back in time to watch us draft a guard projected in the 3rd round. I really wonder what the point of our perpetual extra 2nd rounder is when that guy is always a bust.. Brace, Cunningham, Ras/Vereen (I know jury is still out on them, but I can't imagine BOTH will be great players after both were injured their entire rookie years, so I'm guessing one busts).

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28 points? HOPE?

Considering the playoff opponents this year scored 10/20/19, you might want to go back and realize you don't know what you don't know.

Maybe a better thing to do is worry less about the defense and determine why you believe such asinine things like "defense wins championchips".

Enlightenment starts with getting unstuck from stupid.

If Barron is the real deal and Bill were to package 27 and 48 to trade up to 15 to get him ahead of Jerry I would be OK with that. Trading up any higher (11-12) would require both firsts or a first and both seconds and I just can't even fathom Bill Belichick making that move. People are beginning to act as if there are more than a dozen top ten players in this draft when the concensus seems to be the top tier drops off at 7 and then drops again between 20-24. Not a value trade up situation unless it's within range of those plateaus or you're a team who falls in love and loses all perspective. Until today the skinny was almost everyone past Jacksonville was also looking to trade back...because there are upwards of 70 players sitting there who are in the borderline first to second (by grade) but value in the second round pick ballpark.

Stacey Dales says she's been told that the Patriots aren't talking about moving up to 12, Rap is saying he's heard they are and his guess is Brockers or Barron.

Ah don't you just love draft day?

Pats are probably trying to figure out what pick they can get from teams who are going to really suck next year, asking about the 12th was just the icebreaker

patsfaninpittsburgh said:

28 points? HOPE?

Considering the playoff opponents this year scored 10/20/19, you might want to go back and realize you don't know what you don't know.

Maybe a better thing to do is worry less about the defense and determine why you believe such asinine things like "defense wins championchips".

Enlightenment starts with getting unstuck from stupid.

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Whoa there tough guy are you seriously telling me our offense shouldn't hope to get 28 points a game in the playoffs with this defense?

First of all I'm not counting the Broncos game as anything impressive we played a joke of a quarterback who put his team into a hole early that he clearly couldn't get out of due to his inability to pass. 20 points to the Ravens should have been 27 with that idiotic drop by Lee Evans. I'm so HAPPY that he did drop that pass before you go calling me a Jets fan as it seems to be the case when anyone says anything negative about this team.

I went to the Super Bowl and I watched our Offense unable to get anything going in the first half primarily due to the AWFUL field position it was given for literally every single drive of the first half including the touch down drive that went 96 YARDS! Though the defense did not give up POINTS it cost us POINTS by making us have to drive 70 yards just to get a FG! Do you understand that points allowed isn't everything? Field position and time of possession matter no matter how much you do not want them to. Give Brady better field position, give him a few extra possession because we were able to stop the Giants before they chewed up 8 minutes a drive and we win that game easily.

I am so sick of people saying points allowed is all that matters.. it is when you play weak teams. You need to get off the field and give your best weapon TFB more possessions. If you think I'm an idiot for wanting our offense to score 28 points a game in the playoffs with this terrible defense I don't know what to say. Sure we can win games by scoring 21.. it's just nearly impossible to do with TERRIBLE field position and not enough possessions. You sir are the biggest idiot I have ever come across on this board.

EDIT: And another thing defense does win championships because the Giants defense gave Eli EXTRA possessions. You need to have some form of a defense that gets off the field to win in the playoffs, not a smoke and mirrors defense that gives up a FG every drive and allows 8 minutes to be chewed off the clock every drive.

I seriously doubt this is gonna go down.

I would love for BB to surprise us, as he always does, and move up to get either Barron or Cox. But if he trades with Seattle, it's more likely he's looking at someone else (Brockers?) (which would be fine too), because now it's looking like both Barron and Cox might be gone by 12.

I can only see them doing this for Cox or Keuchly, I don't see Belichick doing this for a safety. Truth is i don't see them doing this at all but those 2 would be worth it.

I'm still hoping for Hightower and David in the first. Some will say it's too high for David but i think he's going earlier than projections.

our two firsts this year, for the 12 pick and seattle's 1st next year would be delicious

TyronePoole said:

our two firsts this year, for the 12 pick and seattle's 1st next year would be delicious

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True, and getting the Lions to swap Megatron for Ocho would be awesome as well.

DefenseRules said:

I will feel so sorry for him when BB trades down. I have spent years getting excited when I hear news like this about the Pats...only to end up feeling like this by the end of the draft :bricks:

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Whoa!! Talking about busting one's bubble!!

Brady2Moss said:

Breer Twiter:

Per league sources, Patriots have inquired with Seattle about what it would take to get to 12. Could be just info gathering. Could be more.

Probably some type of smoke screen, but we can hope. Get us some impact guys Bill!

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Anyone else read that as "Patriots have acquired..."