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Bengals release SS Chris Crocker


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Cincinnati Bengals cut safety Chris Crocker despite salary-cap room - ESPN

I watched the horrible playoff game that Chris had but he still might be worth looking at,the guy was a defensive captain of a very good Bengals defense in 2011 and does average about 50 tackles or so per year and had nearly 4 sacks in 2011.

Injury history might be a problem,but he played nearly every snap of 2011.

I don't watch the Bengals enough to get an idea if Chris would be a valuable depth on the team,but he can't be any worse than Brown or some of the scrubs we have at Safety,can he?
 
Cincinnati Bengals cut safety Chris Crocker despite salary-cap room - ESPN

I watched the horrible playoff game that Chris had but he still might be worth looking at,the guy was a defensive captain of a very good Bengals defense in 2011 and does average about 50 tackles or so per year and had nearly 4 sacks in 2011.

Injury history might be a problem,but he played nearly every snap of 2011.

I don't watch the Bengals enough to get an idea if Chris would be a valuable depth on the team,but he can't be any worse than Brown or some of the scrubs we have at Safety,can he?
Good comments. Like you said, he sounds like the kind of player that just might fit in, and definitely worth a look.
 
Even more reason to believe we wont be drafting Barron
 
Pick him up and ask him about his Aunt Betty
 
Low risk high reward.
 
I'm sure BB is already lookin into it, how he fits in $ part of it. If all aspects pan out I'm for him.
 
Even more reason to believe we wont be drafting Barron

From what I'm reading recently, Barron will be long gone before the Pats first pick.
 
I was wondering about him when I read he'd been released yesterday. Like most Bengals, he played in fairly complete anonymity to most Pats fans. If he has some coverage skills I wouldn't be opposed to kicking the tires.

He does have some nice positives on the surface. Being a defensive captain is a big one. The bad news is he's currently 32. The good news is that he's currently 32 and might be a good short term addition to a DB that is long on youth and short on experience. Especially one that will probably add another 2 DBs later in the month.
 
This guy or Bell... if we bring in either before the draft I think we are looking full of depth.
 
Chris-crocker.jpg


This guy was a Bengal?
 
They definitely should bring in either Crocker or Bell. They're just veteran stop-gaps obviously but it'll give them time to draft and develop a young safety.
 
Low risk high reward.

I think we need to come up with a new motto for FA signings. Some have adopted the phrase "Depth Signings" but I think they should be called something like "no risk, mediocre reward at best"

A Gozalez, B Carpenter, Stallworth, the fullbacks and defensive backs all fit this mold.
 
This guy or Bell... if we bring in either before the draft I think we are looking full of depth.
It makes no sense to bring in guys like this when we already have Chung and Ihedigbo. They're all the same type of player, a SS who is weak in coverage but good in the box. Steve Gregory is also a hybrid FS/SS type. No need to spend cap space on third/fourth string safety.

Bell would've been an upgrade three years ago. These guys are just names
 
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I think we need to come up with a new motto for FA signings. Some have adopted the phrase "Depth Signings" but I think they should be called something like "no risk, mediocre reward at best"

A Gozalez, B Carpenter, Stallworth, the fullbacks and defensive backs all fit this mold.
Gonzalez has a high ceiling.
 
From what I'm reading recently, Barron will be long gone before the Pats first pick.


Even at that we're looking to field a team to win this year ... no way Barron would know enough to compete now ... I'd rather have a veteran brought in.
 
It makes no sense to bring in guys like this when we already have Chung and Ihedigbo. They're all the same type of player, a SS who is weak in coverage but good in the box. Steve Gregory is also a hybrid FS/SS type. No need to spend cap space on third/fourth string safety.

Bell would've been an upgrade three years ago. These guys are just names

Comeback,
Ihedigbo=Free Agent still on the market. We do not have him.
Our Safeties are:
Chung, Greggory, Josh Barrett, Sergio Brown and Ross Vetrone.

The talent is underwhelming at least after Chung and Greggory.

There is one caveat that none of us are considering. Barrett has been hurt almost every year for his NFL 3 year career. Why would BB pay a million per year for this kid? Does he have dirty pictures on BB or does BB feel this kid has a future. He started three games and had mixed results.

This years Safety class Rots. Does he feel Barrett is turning the corner? At $1m certainly an easy cut to gain some CAP room if he is "Sergio-like". Barron has been hidden by Saban if you try to find game film of his coverage ability. Alshon Jeffrey made him look very bad in coverage. But that is what Jeffrey does without a QB and against numerous first round CBs in this Draft and would be a mistake to not consider him at least near Blackmon and Floyd, but that's another story for another day.

I think that Smith has shown more in coverage, some good , some bad, but find tape on Barron in actual man coverage. The "experts" have expressed concern. They are assuming he will be alright. So he definitely/maybe will be able to cover an NFL TE down the seam. Would I gamble? Probably. Would I trade down? No, not unless Saban has sold a bill of goods to BB. How would you like to play those two guys in Liars Poker?

My point is perhaps a $1m investment in Barrett will point BB at other needs like a pass rusher, let things work out on Barrett or not and grab Bell or Crocker as cheap insurance. No one can look at Sergio Brown of Vetrone seriously as anything other than ST, can they?

I am more likely to look at a Smith in middle of round two at #48. If he goes before that, it might be too high. If he's gone I want the absolute best Safety in this Draft class at #48 who could change the Safety game in the NFL if you sit down and watch his tape:

Zack Brown, whom I have put out there in other Threads.

(Most excerpts from Rob Rang):

He is only beginning to learn how to maximize his exceptional ability on a football field, but Brown is fast and fascinating.

He has CB speed and skills.

He has an abundance of one natural ability that can't be taught -- speed. Brown officially set a school record in track with an indoor 60-meter time of 6.72 seconds in 2009. He checked in at the Combine with an unofficial best of 4.44 seconds in the 40 and actually seemed off stride in the middle of the run. He added a vertical jump of 33.5 inches.
His raw athleticism is tantalizing, but he lacks the instincts to be a great linebacker (THEN HE SHOULD BE A SAFETY!)and may need to add even more bulk than the additional six pounds he put on for the Combine since the season (GO BACK TO 225-230LBS TO PLAY THE S POSITION). Meantime, at the very least, he can be a terror on special teams, same as he was in college.
Analysis
Read & React: Still a work in progress in this area, though he showed improvement as the 2010 season wore on. Takes a false-step on occasion, but is an alert player whose rare speed puts him in position to make the play. Reacts quickly in pass coverage once the ball is thrown. Hustles to the ball.
Work in progress by good play-action, but has the flexibility and straight-line speed to recover. Gains good depth on his drops when in obvious passing situations. Keeps his head on a swivel and shows some feel for zone coverage. Reads the quarterback's eyes and can plant and break on the ball. At least average ball-skills for the position and has the athleticism to be a threat with the ball in his hands on a return (see INT return against Tennessee in the Music City Bowl). Has the physical skills to eventually excel in this area.
Pass Rush/Blitz: Very raw in this area. Possesses the explosive athleticism you can't coach, but relies almost exclusively on his speed and agility to elude blockers, including running backs. Doesn't show much in terms of pass rush technique.
Intangibles: Two-sport athlete who also participates in track for North Carolina. Set the school record in the indoor 60-meter dash with a 6.72 time in 2009. Unofficially clocked at 4.28 seconds by UNC coaches during off-season conditioning in 2009. Was named a special teams captain in 2010 for earning the most points in Carolina's scoring system.
2011 Season
Brown earned first-team All-ACC honors and was a Butkus Award semifinalist in 2011 after leading the Tar Heels with 105 tackles. He also posted 13.5 tackles for loss, 5.5 sacks, three interceptions, three forced fumbles and four pass breakups. Brown closed out his career with a season-high 14 tackles in North Carolina's bowl game against Missouri--his fifth double-digit tackle game of the year. He totaled 230 career tackles, including 19 tackles for loss, 5.5 sacks, seven interceptions, four pass breakups and three forced fumbles.

Others praise Brown for his blanket coverage including thoes WR in the slot, awareness and ball skills. Tackling was not the best for an OLB in technique but at 105 of them in 2011 it was super for a Safety.

He is one of the fastest players to ever come into the NFL and 6'1" and about 235lbs. Can you see him on numerous Safety blitzes like Harrison?

If you compare his stats to Barron, Brown is the better Safety product. He was used wrong because he has those superb OLB intangibles but look how BB played OLB Roman Pfifer as a Safety. He has many snaps for Bill. He was very underrated here. Zack Brown has the ability to change the Safety game like LT changed the LB game.

This could be another new BB toy that would have others follow like the new TE game.

DW Toys
 
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I was wondering about him when I read he'd been released yesterday. Like most Bengals, he played in fairly complete anonymity to most Pats fans. If he has some coverage skills I wouldn't be opposed to kicking the tires.

He does have some nice positives on the surface. Being a defensive captain is a big one. The bad news is he's currently 32. The good news is that he's currently 32 and might be a good short term addition to a DB that is long on youth and short on experience. Especially one that will probably add another 2 DBs later in the month.

My GOD, 32 and old and decrepit. Probably cant even tie his own shoes anymore. Is his diet restricted to pablum and apple sauce?

In the NFL as a DB, 32 means good experience and knowledge of how things happen.

Slowing down at 32 might effect a corner more so than a safety. As a safety the experience gives him an ability to see things in front of him without having to have blazing speed to cover younger receivers, like corners, on long go routes.
 
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C
Zack Brown, whom I have put out there in other Threads.

(Most excerpts from Rob Rang):

He is only beginning to learn how to maximize his exceptional ability on a football field, but Brown is fast and fascinating.

He has CB speed and skills.

He has an abundance of one natural ability that can't be taught -- speed. Brown officially set a school record in track with an indoor 60-meter time of 6.72 seconds in 2009. He checked in at the Combine with an unofficial best of 4.44 seconds in the 40 and actually seemed off stride in the middle of the run. He added a vertical jump of 33.5 inches.
His raw athleticism is tantalizing, but he lacks the instincts to be a great linebacker (THEN HE SHOULD BE A SAFETY!)and may need to add even more bulk than the additional six pounds he put on for the Combine since the season (GO BACK TO 225-230LBS TO PLAY THE S POSITION). Meantime, at the very least, he can be a terror on special teams, same as he was in college.
Analysis
Read & React: Still a work in progress in this area, though he showed improvement as the 2010 season wore on. Takes a false-step on occasion, but is an alert player whose rare speed puts him in position to make the play. Reacts quickly in pass coverage once the ball is thrown. Hustles to the ball.
Work in progress by good play-action, but has the flexibility and straight-line speed to recover. Gains good depth on his drops when in obvious passing situations. Keeps his head on a swivel and shows some feel for zone coverage. Reads the quarterback's eyes and can plant and break on the ball. At least average ball-skills for the position and has the athleticism to be a threat with the ball in his hands on a return (see INT return against Tennessee in the Music City Bowl). Has the physical skills to eventually excel in this area.
Pass Rush/Blitz: Very raw in this area. Possesses the explosive athleticism you can't coach, but relies almost exclusively on his speed and agility to elude blockers, including running backs. Doesn't show much in terms of pass rush technique.
Intangibles: Two-sport athlete who also participates in track for North Carolina. Set the school record in the indoor 60-meter dash with a 6.72 time in 2009. Unofficially clocked at 4.28 seconds by UNC coaches during off-season conditioning in 2009. Was named a special teams captain in 2010 for earning the most points in Carolina's scoring system.
2011 Season
Brown earned first-team All-ACC honors and was a Butkus Award semifinalist in 2011 after leading the Tar Heels with 105 tackles. He also posted 13.5 tackles for loss, 5.5 sacks, three interceptions, three forced fumbles and four pass breakups. Brown closed out his career with a season-high 14 tackles in North Carolina's bowl game against Missouri--his fifth double-digit tackle game of the year. He totaled 230 career tackles, including 19 tackles for loss, 5.5 sacks, seven interceptions, four pass breakups and three forced fumbles.

Others praise Brown for his blanket coverage including thoes WR in the slot, awareness and ball skills. Tackling was not the best for an OLB in technique but at 105 of them in 2011 it was super for a Safety.

He is one of the fastest players to ever come into the NFL and 6'1" and about 235lbs. Can you see him on numerous Safety blitzes like Harrison?

If you compare his stats to Barron, Brown is the better Safety product. He was used wrong because he has those superb OLB intangibles but look how BB played OLB Roman Pfifer as a Safety. He has many snaps for Bill. He was very underrated here. Zack Brown has the ability to change the Safety game like LT changed the LB game.

This could be another new BB toy that would have others follow like the new TE game.

DW Toys
Interesting stuff on Brown, Toys. I have some experience in that I went from a OLB to SS in my last and most successful (though still futile ;) ) attempt to make an NFL team. And believe me I did NOT have "blazing speed".

Based on my failing memory, some of the tougher things that a player making that kind of switch would have would be:

1. learning to keep your depth. If you are used to playing close to the LOS all the time, it becomes uncomfortable to be 10-15 yds from it, and you develop the tendency to creep up, and inadvertently loose your cushion.

2. You have to learn to have patience. When you play at the LOS (and understand in college I played mostly on the DL and was only a part time LB) all your reactions are instant and violent. the faster you get on your blocker the faster you can read him and find the ball and the faster your can get off him

Safety play doesn't work that way. The urge to make instant reactions causes "false steps", which actually slows you down. So you almost have that that dichotomy that if you slow it down, you will actually get there faster. This was the toughest lesson for me to learn.

3. Getting used to seeing the whole field - When I was a DLman, all I was focused on was the the guy's hand I lined up against - When I was an OLB you saw the game only from one side of the field - When I was a SS seeing the field from the deep middle was a strange look, which I was just getting comfortable with....when I got cut.

Disclaimer - The game was a lot simpler in those days. A SS mostly had run and TE responsibilities. In the early 70's there was a lot of man coverages. When you were in a zone the patterns were simpler and I had a knack of being able to read them. The geometry made sense to me. (which is why I probably lasted as long as I did)

I would suspect that in today's muliple mixed man/zone coverages, spread offenses and option pass routes, it would be much more difficult for a Zack Brown to make that transition than it was for me.

My question would be, Toys, is he worth a pick in the first 3 rounds, if its going to take at least 2 full years to become a competent S and during that time all he could be would be S depth and a special teams ace. I don't think so.

The key negative is that the scouts don't think he's an "instinctual" player. And I don't think he can make that jump from LB to S without being an "instinctual player". That was probably MY best quality. Despite all his great athleticism, the transition would just take too long to be worth the 2nd or 3rd round pick it would take to get him, even if you were sure he could do it.

BTW- as far as our current S situation goes all we have on the roster are Chung Barrett and Gregory. I pray to god we improve the talent that make Ventrone and Brown just gone. We are likely to keep 9 DBs with some combination of 5-4 CB/S ratio. Ideally I'd love to see us add another Vet FA as well as a draft pick or 3 and have at least 5 quality players battle it out for 4 positions.
 
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BTW- as far as our current S situation goes all we have on the roster are Chung Barrett and Gregory.
Unless they move Will Allen to safety. Given everything you just said, does it make sense that a guy like Will Allen could at least provide depth at 'free' safety (to the extent that the Pats have a 'free' vs 'strong' safety). That doesn't take away from the need for a better starting safety but at least adds one more guy to strengthen a weak lineup.

I don't remember how well Allen played from watching. His recent stats are pretty awful, but at least he knows how to get in position and cover. I'd rather have Allen at safety next year than a rookie LB converting to safety. 2-3 years from now, having Zach Brown as a tweener LB/S, if he's smart enough to adapt, might look a little better.

As for Crocker, I'd rather see Allen converting to Safety than Crocker in deep coverage. The Pats have bigger problems stopping passes than runs.

(I searched the forum for threads on Allen and didn't come up with much. There must have been a thread when he was signed, but I couldn't find it.)

BTW - Ken, really nice retrospective on your experience trying to convert from OLB to S. Educational for those of us who haven't played football. In the very little team sports I've played (intramural hockey at a pathetically low level) any passerby could steal the puck from me since I never had any idea where anyone else was. I can't imagine trying to read 21 other guys in motion.
 
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