For those thinking it was Brady's fault and that Eli is more "clutch"

Fball said:

Stepping up when it counts the most is one of them, imo.

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How well did Eli step up when it counted when (in the years following 2007) his team didn't make the playoffs and lost in the early rounds of them? Just sayin'

Brady made mistakes, Manning made the big plays, I think this is the beginning of the end for Brady.

Uncle Rico said:

Heard a stat on the radio this a.m.: before having his shoulder injured on a (clean) sack by Tuck, Brady had a passer rating of about 144. After the injury: Passer rating was 35. I know: patriots never blame injuries and neither should we. yet, hard to dismiss the impact that hit had on Brady afterward.

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I heard this too, but went back and checked the game log...Lots of the drops happened after the sack...Welker, Branch, Hernandez, ect. Then you have 3 or 4 incompletes on the final drive where they basically needed a miracle. It is a little deceiving.

Fball said:

If you want to just break it down to the 2 passes, Eli made an absolutely perfect throw to a well-covered Manningham.

Brady threw off-target to a wide open Welker; Welker normally makes that catch, but it was not an easy catch at all.

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Eli's pass wasn't perfect, that's why Manningham had to make a great play to secure the ball while getting both feet in bounds. If the pass is "absolutely perfect" (your words), Manningham doesn't have to do what he did and struggle to secure the ball while positioning his feet. The pass was a little off, just like Brady's was a little off.

The difference was that Manningham made a play on an imperfect throw and Welker didn't. And that made all the difference, as the saying goes.

How well did Eli step up when it counted when (in the years following 2007) his team didn't make the playoffs and lost in the early rounds of them? Just sayin'

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This is a strawman. We are looking specifically at performances in the SB.

You can't counter what Eli has done in the SB's he has gotten to by making a reference to years when he did not get there. It takes a tremendous amount of good things going your way to get to the SB. Dan Marino got to one his rookie year and never got back again.

Does not change at all what Eli did last night nor does it change the single game comparison between Tom and Eli from last night.

Still does not make me want to trade Tom for Eli but hard to deny what has happened.

Fball said:

The arguments for Brady over Eli's brother before '07 were that Peyton could have his pro bowls & regular seasons, but that Tom was better for SB wins & clutch plays in the big one.

There are a lot of different definitions of elite. Stepping up when it counts the most is one of them, imo.

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What how dare you remind us of what used to be proclaimed by Pats fans in the past. Those things simply do not matter anymore, it's all about great numbers in the regular season, and choking in the post season.

Eli isnt all that clutchats and Giants recent season records (except SB years)

I compiled the season records for PATS and Giants since 2005 (except the SB wins),Mainly because people keep comparing 'Eli'zabeth's and Bradys Playoff (clutch) performances


Feel free to draw your own conclusions

Source :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/

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Giants

2005
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Record 11–5
Division Place 1st NFC East
Playoff finish Lost Wild Card
23–0 vs Carolina Panthers

2006
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Record 8–8
Division Place 3rd NFC East
Playoff finish Lost NFC Wild Card
23–20 at Philadelphia Eagles

2008
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Record 12–4
Division Place 1st NFC East
Playoff finish Lost Divisional Playoffs (Eagles) 23–11

2009
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Record 8–8
Division Place 3rd NFC East
Playoff finish did not qualify

2010
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Record 10–6
Division Place 2nd NFC East
Playoff finish did not qualify


Patriots

2005
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Record 10–6
Division Place 1st AFC East
Playoff finish Won Wild Card Playoffs (Jaguars) 28–3
Lost Divisional Playoffs (Broncos) 27–13


2006
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Record 12–4
Division Place 1st AFC East
Playoff finish Won Wild Card Playoffs (Jets) 37–16
Won Divisional Playoffs (Chargers) 24–21
Lost Conference Championship (Colts) 38–34


2008
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Record 11–5
Division Place 2nd AFC East
Playoff finish Did Not Qualify (didnt have Brady)

2009
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Record 10–6
Division Place 1st AFC East
Playoff finish Lost Wild Card Playoffs (Ravens) 33–14


2010
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Record 14–2
Division Place 1st AFC East
Playoff finish Lost Divisional Playoffs (Jets) 28–21

While some blame has to lay on brady I hardley feel it was his fault. That being said he was outplayed by the Giants QB. Had Brady led a TD drive with 1:00 to go it would be different. Thats life in the Super Bowl.

strongside said:

While some blame has to lay on brady I hardley feel it was his fault. That being said he was outplayed by the Giants QB. Had Brady led a TD drive with 1:00 to go it would be different. Thats life in the Super Bowl.

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I hate this reasoning. It's not Brady vs Eli. It's Brady vs the Giants defense and Eli vs the Pats defenses. They are not playing against a neutral defense.

StevePatsFan said:

Look, I love Brady, but you can't totally absolve him from two major mistakes in this game. Handing the ball back to the giants without even time for defense to catch a breath on the first series along with 2 points is terrible football any time during the season, but in the Super Bowl with a veteran QB like Brady its a mortal sin... He cost them 9 points on the play in my mind!
I dont even want to get into the horrible INT he threw for second playoff game in a row...

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I don"t really have a problem with the throw. I don't think it was a bad decision like the one in the Baltimore game. I'd make that throw every time; Gronk downfield vs. a Linebacker.

I don't think there's any need to compare Brady to Eli.

Both are clutch. But right now, over the last 5-6 years or so, Eli has been clutch when it really counts. I'd say he's the "King of Clutch" right now in the NFL.

Sort of amazing to think that early in his career Eli Manning was being talked about the way Jets fans now talk about Sanchez. As someone who could never lead the team to the promised land.

Fball said:

The arguments for Brady over Eli's brother before '07 were that Peyton could have his pro bowls & regular seasons, but that Tom was better for SB wins & clutch plays in the big one.

There are a lot of different definitions of elite. Stepping up when it counts the most is one of them, imo.

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To be elite, means to be a part of a group that is of high class or in sports, the best performers. The Hall of Fame is a good indicator of elite status.

Clutch is playing well under pressure.

Not sure what dictionary your using

robbomango said:

To be elite, means to be a part of a group that is of high class or in sports, the best performers. The Hall of Fame is a good indicator of elite status.

Clutch is playing well under pressure.

Not sure what dictionary your using

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The one where playing well under pressure is part of being one of the best performers.

Eli made the HOF last night, btw.

sambam94 said:

I hate this reasoning. It's not Brady vs Eli. It's Brady vs the Giants defense and Eli vs the Pats defenses. They are not playing against a neutral defense.

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if that's the case than you can never have a "who is better" debate unless all the variables were equal. The problem is your applying rational thinking in an irrational topic.

Fball said:

The one where playing well under pressure is part of being one of the best performers.

Eli made the HOF last night, btw.

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I'm not an Eli hater, so relax. Clutch is an ingredient, not a definition as you said.

HOF? Didn't know he got bumped ahead of Big ben. Slow down please, geez.

there's really no question eli was the clutchest nfl qb this season

can't even be disputed, he set an nfl 4th qtr td record

dude was insane this season

if their D would have been more consistent the whole season (they did have alot of injuries in their secondary) they would have been alot better than 9-7

This whole clutch thing is funny. Clutch is sometimes overused imo. You make due with the opportunities you have.

Welker didn't make a great catch on a imperfect throw. Drive stalled 4 minutes left in the game. Your last chance to be clutch with reasonable time on the clock.

Eli drives his team down field in 3 minutes while Manningham makes clutch catch on imperfect throw. TD results in drive.

Brady now has 1 minute to drive many many yards therefore he is not clutch and doesn't get the luxury of having 4 minutes on the clock. However if the clutch catch was made maybe we are not talking about this today?

Actually who gives a $%^&. Some of these people wouldn't know clutch if it bit them in arse.

FACT: Brady has not been clutch in a big game ( A game that has a lot on the line ) in more than 5 years. He may have won some games, but not because his clutch performance. It was either a blow out or a defensive stop, etc...

Eli meanwhile has been clutch all year, and was ultra clutch in 07.

Eli is the best QB right now. I'm not interested in Stats, we didn't care about stats when Peyton was compiling stats and we were winning Super Bowls, I am not about to start caring about Stats right now.

We need a defense which can rise to the occasion and more balance on offense.

if brady makes that type of throw eli did, it's called perfect and delivered in as if by angels

no reason to hate eli , i mean i have reason too lol , but aside from my own reasons, since the draft eli's been a good teammate and a good person

total ho hum guy who hardly ever talks

and when he talks , and says he thinks he's now elite and in tom brady's class, he goes out and proves it by having his best season ever


there's just no hating on that

mcgraw_wv said:

Eli meanwhile has been clutch all year, and was ultra clutch in 07.

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Yeah 9-7. Wicked clutch...