For those thinking it was Brady's fault and that Eli is more "clutch"

Get a clue! Tom Brady might have not played perfect, but Welker makes that catch 1000/1001 attempts. Unfortunately, he didn't whereas Manning's receivers make all the plays look at both catches in the Super Bowls we lost to them. UNREAL. And the idiots on first take blaming Brady saying it was a wide open Welker, well there were 3 Giants with 4-5 yards of Welker and Brady threw it only where Welker could catch it. I love Wes but this is on him (the play not the loss). Then Branch virtually killing any chance of a last minute drive with the drop that would have been 20+ yards in the first play. Eli's receivers > Tom's receivers in the CLUTCH. And it came down to that.

Yesterday, in the heat of the moment, I said I didn't want Welker back and I am an idiot for even saying that.

Gronkowski's injury also played a huge role in this game. It was evident that the gameplan was different. I don't know if I hate Manning of Pollard more.

Um Eli was more clutch in this SB than Brady. Did you watch the game last night?

Mark12 said:

Get a clue! Tom Brady might have not played perfect, but Welker makes that catch 1000/1001 attempts. Unfortunately, he didn't whereas Manning's receivers make all the plays look at both catches in the Super Bowls we lost to them. UNREAL. And the idiots on first take blaming Brady saying it was a wide open Welker, well there were 3 Giants with 4-5 yards of Welker and Brady threw it only where Welker could catch it. I love Wes but this is on him (the play not the loss). Then Branch virtually killing any chance of a last minute drive with the drop that would have been 20+ yards in the first play. Eli's receivers > Tom's receivers in the CLUTCH. And it came down to that.

Yesterday, in the heat of the moment, I said I didn't want Welker back and I am an idiot for even saying that.

Gronkowski's injury also played a huge role in this game. It was evident that the gameplan was different. I don't know if I hate Manning of Pollard more.

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Look, I love Brady, but you can't totally absolve him from two major mistakes in this game. Handing the ball back to the giants without even time for defense to catch a breath on the first series along with 2 points is terrible football any time during the season, but in the Super Bowl with a veteran QB like Brady its a mortal sin... He cost them 9 points on the play in my mind!
I dont even want to get into the horrible INT he threw for second playoff game in a row...

If you want to just break it down to the 2 passes, Eli made an absolutely perfect throw to a well-covered Manningham.

Brady threw off-target to a wide open Welker; Welker normally makes that catch, but it was not an easy catch at all.

Pats secondary played well...most catches by the WR was great plays by Nicks, Cruz and Manningham...Manning was ok but nothing spectacular or much more clutch... it was a great throw to Manningham on the last drive but he's receiver really stepped up whole game again and made more plays than Pats receivers

Manning - 2 Super Bowls

Brady - 2 record-setting offenses that score 14 and 17 points.

Not hard to see which one is clutch.

Yea I saw the game. I saw Brady conducting a masterful drive that started inside his own 20 to ice the game. Welker's drop was a drive killer. It is virtually impossible to get a 3rd and long vs the Giants relentless D-line. I just saw the last play of the game and we were SOOO close to getting that hail mary this hurts

oldskool138 said:

Um Eli was more clutch in this SB than Brady. Did you watch the game last night?

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I know you're trying to play the "objective fan roll" but I really dont know how you can say that.

Before the end of the half, Brady led, what was probably the most perfect drive ever in any football game

Then he does it again to start the second half.

Wes catches that ball, the game is over.

Branch drops a big pass, Aaron drops a big pass

and a 100% Gronk would ahve had the extrar 1/4th of a step to catch that hail marry at the end.

This was one of Brady's best games. Unfortunetly, sometimes the balls bounce the other way (or 3 times)

I would not trade Tom for any quarterback in pro football at this point. However there is no question in my mind that the most relevant difference in the SB was the differences in quarterback play by the opposing quarterbacks.

While I would not trade Tom for Eli maybe it is time to stop calling what Eli does freakish. Maybe the fact that Eli came up in this era of quarterback play now being in most cases the most relevant element to winning or losing big games is giving Eli an edge that neither Tom nor Eli's brother has.

Eli has the ability to slow down the action on the field in the biggest moments of the game and become the best player on the field for those given moments. That now defines Eli's career to this moment and if the team he plays for can get him into positions (such as post season play) where that talent can be utilized you see the result.

While I would not trade Tom for Eli, in my view the only way for Tom to beat Eli in these games will be to match him or beat him in the critical areas of mistakes made and big plays made or missed. If not that then, the Pats are going to have to build a bit more talent around Tom as a means of making an effort to overcome Eli's advantage at these times in big games.

I will be interested to see if we will see more quarterbacks coming up in this era like Eli. Rogers is something like Eli and so is Smith for that matter. If more and more quarterbacks that come up in this era fit this profile then I think it will likely prove the point. Even the Detroit quarterback is something like this. Being great most of the time is being bested by being great in the moment the way the rules have been changed and the way big games are now won or lost. Big games have always been won by big plays but usually those big plays were spread around more. Now the way the rules have been changed those elements of game management that we have attributed to the great quarterbacks are being bested in big games by a quarterback's ability to be big in the moment.

Sivy said:

I know you're trying to play the "objective fan roll" but I really dont know how you can say that.

Before the end of the half, Brady led, what was probably the most perfect drive ever in any football game

Then he does it again to start the second half.

Wes catches that ball, the game is over.

Branch drops a big pass, Aaron drops a big pass

and a 100% Gronk would ahve had the extrar 1/4th of a step to catch that hail marry at the end.

This was one of Brady's best games. Unfortunetly, sometimes the balls bounce the other way (or 3 times)

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If ifs and Buts were candy and nuts.....you know the rest


Eli is 2-0 in Super Bowls and has outdone Brady when the game is on the line...Eli is more clutch when its these QBs face to face whether you refuse to believe that is your problem.

PATRIOTSFANINPA said:

If ifs and Buts were candy and nuts.....you know the rest


Eli is 2-0 in Super Bowls and has outdone Brady when the game is on the line...Eli is more clutch when its these QBs face to face whether you refuse to believe that is your problem.

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When a team loses, fans tend to forget all the good plays (e.g., the longest TD drive in SB history) and remember only the bad ones, and call it "choking."

When a team wins, fans tend to remember the key positive plays and forget the terrible ones and the aspects of luck that come into play (e.g., the fact that the helmet catch should never have had a chance to happen, because of the "in-the-grasp" rule), and call it "clutch."

Heard a stat on the radio this a.m.: before having his shoulder injured on a (clean) sack by Tuck, Brady had a passer rating of about 144. After the injury: Passer rating was 35. I know: patriots never blame injuries and neither should we. yet, hard to dismiss the impact that hit had on Brady afterward.

Still not getting it. Those two drives were great drives but on balance you would say that Tom's supporting cast of players were also significant contributors in those drives. However there were no really great plays in those drives and everybody with a brain acknowledges that big plays are the difference in big NFL games.

Those drives got the Pats into a position to win but they were not significant enough to overcome the mistakes Tom made vs the big plays that Tom made in comparison to the lack of mistakes by Eli and the big plays Eli made.

ctpatsfan77 said:

When a team loses, fans tend to forget all the good plays (e.g., the longest TD drive in SB history) and remember only the bad ones, and call it "choking."

When a team wins, fans tend to remember the key positive plays and forget the terrible ones and the aspects of luck that come into play (e.g., the fact that the helmet catch should never have had a chance to happen, because of the "in-the-grasp" rule), and call it "clutch."

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Did Eli get away from 3 300lb men in order to be able to toss that pass to Tyree?

I call that clutch .... I don't know how many QBs would have been able to escape that situation.

The next generation of Elite QBs will unfortunately include Eli,but it is what it is.

Heard a stat on the radio this a.m.: before having his shoulder injured on a (clean) sack by Tuck, Brady had a passer rating of about 144. After the injury: Passer rating was 35. I know: patriots never blame injuries and neither should we. yet, hard to dismiss the impact that hit had on Brady afterward.

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and did you see what Tom was doing on that play? One comment made often before the game was that Tom was going to have to be his own best protector. Was he on that play?

Where was he going with that spin move....nowhere that is where. All he did with that awkward spin move was expose himself to the Tuck hit. Tom has never been the kind of athlete that can make something from a move like that and as it was happening I was surprised that he did not fumble the ball. Frankly Tom bears some responsibility for that play as well. He should have just gone down feet first which I thought he was doing until this spin move came out of nowhere.

While some blame has to lay on brady I hardley feel it was his fault. That being said he was outplayed by the Giants QB. Had Brady led a TD drive with 1:00 to go it would be different. Thats life in the Super Bowl.

PATRIOTSFANINPA said:

The next generation of Elite QBs will unfortunately include Eli,but it is what it is.

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9-7 record, 2 Pro Bowl selections = Elite

Eli did not hurt his team in any way last night. Brady had the awful safety and the awful pick, two gigantic errors.

The incompletion to Welker falls on both Brady/Welker. Can debate all day who deserves more blame for that but the fact was he was open, it's a play that should have been made, and Brady played a part in that not being converted. It was a monumental miss. That entire drive man...The Giants D was exhausted, and they were dropping like flies. No excuse for Brady not converting in that situation. That's a situation where a legend needs to take over and ice the game. He didn't get it done. Eli got it done, again

I do blame Brady for this loss to some degree, but not because of the Welker pass. My blame stems from the safety at the beginning of the game. That was just so sloppy I can't get past it and it set the tone for the entire game.

More than Brady I think I blame the coaching. The sloppy play indicates to me that the team was just not properly prepared for this game, strategically and mentally. And what was the deal with only 10 touches for BJGE and almost zero no-huddle? It seems to me that BoB had 1 foot out the door and just wasn't paying too much attention.

BoB, I have never blamed you for any loss prior, but it was clear to me from watching this that the OC just wasn't checked in for this game.

oldskool138 said:

9-7 record, 2 Pro Bowl selections = Elite

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The arguments for Brady over Eli's brother before '07 were that Peyton could have his pro bowls & regular seasons, but that Tom was better for SB wins & clutch plays in the big one.

There are a lot of different definitions of elite. Stepping up when it counts the most is one of them, imo.