For those who complain about the game plan/adjustments in the 2007 Super Bowl:

PatsWickedPissah · Feb 1, 2012

Fencer said:
Three reasons this seems like a bad idea:

Richard Seymour injury.

Richard Seymour false start penalties.

The huge number of snaps Wilfork already takes.

Those were my thoughts too.
And #3 is killah.

That said it was not a crazy idea as Wilfie has played RB. Man will tell you he is an elite athlete and can play any position. I just hope Brady stays healthy because you know that Wilfork will be yapping in BB's ear that he...

denverpatsfan · Feb 1, 2012

Better personnel this season for running the ball. O-line, Tight ends and running back.

Key is to keep the game close or take the lead early. If the D gives up a big lead then they will be forced to throw and bad things can happen.

RodThePat · Feb 1, 2012

Just please, for the love of god, don't keep going shotgun/empty backfield immediately after you gash them for a big run. This was killing me in the Baltimore game. At the very least keep Brady under center for a good portion of snaps just to keep their defense guessing.

ausbacker · Feb 1, 2012

Deus Irae said:
He averaged 4.5 ypc that year. In the playoffs, he had 22 carries for 122 (5.55 ypc) against Jacksonville and 25 carries for (again) 122 (4.88 ypc) against San Diego.

We all know that you believe Maroney was an all world Running Back and his struggles were because of poor run blocking. We heard you the first 5,000 times.

hlywoodjp · Feb 1, 2012

I would like to know how all these internet offensive coordinators would adjust to their interior offensive lineman being blown up play after play. If that happens again it is the nightmare scenario.

Deus Irae · Feb 1, 2012

ausbacker said:
We all know that you believe Maroney was an all world Running Back and his struggles were because of poor run blocking. We heard you the first 5,000 times.

You blaming Maroney for running issues in the SB is asinine given that Evans was pointing first to the TEs. Trying to twist this as something where I'm biased is even more asinine.

ausbacker · Feb 1, 2012

Deus Irae said:
And we all know that you like to twist the truth. Here you're doing it again, even as you avoid the point. You blaming Maroney for running issues in the SB is asinine given that Evans was pointing first to the TEs.

Where did I blame Maroney for the running issues in the Superbowl? Pull your head out of your arse and read a comment properly.

Maroney had a nice 2007 campaign. As time has proven, he simply was not that good of a running back. Go ahead and disprove that.

strngplyr · Feb 1, 2012

ausbacker said:
Where did I blame Maroney for the running issues in the Superbowl? Pull your head out of your arse and read a comment properly.

Maroney had a nice 2007 campaign. As time has proven, he simply was not that good of a running back. Go ahead and disprove that.

You didn't directly state it, but you did feel the need to point out that he turned into a ****ty RB. Why else would you say that if you weren't insinuating that he was at fault?

I know you and DI aren't BFF's, but why are you starting an argument and then acting like he's the aggressor?

strngplyr · Feb 1, 2012

Fencer said:
Three reasons this seems like a bad idea:

Richard Seymour injury.

Richard Seymour false start penalties.

The huge number of snaps Wilfork already takes.

Big and strong does not equal good FB, either.

Any hole that Wilfork could fit into to initiate a block wouldn't require a FB in the first place.

ausbacker · Feb 1, 2012

strngplyr said:
You didn't directly state it, but you did feel the need to point out that he turned into a ****ty RB. Why else would you say that if you weren't insinuating that he was at fault?

I know you and DI aren't BFF's, but why are you starting an argument and then acting like he's the aggressor?

How's is stating a fact starting an argument? The entire offense was stagnant in SB42 and Maroney's career trended downward after 2009, so much so that he's out of the league now.

Deus has formerly been an unabashed Maroney apologist (and at one time so was I). Whenever there was a running problem it was always the O/L's fault and whilst I agree, at times that was the case the fact is, Maroney didn't perform in the Superbowl, the Patriots offense didn't perform in the Superbowl and time has proven that Maroney was an average back coached up in New England.

If Brady misses open throws we blame him, if a receiver drops a catch we blame him. Passing the buck on Maroney in 42 for let's face it, a pathetic effort on his behalf (and I've acknowledged the OL's struggles in 42) is on Maroney, not just the scheme and play calling.

For the record, I don't have an issue with Deus. His level headed posting is normally an interesting read.

NinjaZX6R · Feb 1, 2012

I don't get it. If they planned to run the ball down their throats, why only have 2 TEs active for the game?

I forget who the other TE was.
I know it was Watson and Kyle Brady as TEs.

Deus Irae · Feb 1, 2012

ausbacker said:
How's is stating a fact starting an argument? The entire offense was stagnant in SB42 and Maroney's career trended downward after 2009, so much so that he's out of the league now.

Deus has formerly been an unabashed Maroney apologist (and at one time so was I). Whenever there was a running problem it was always the O/L's fault and whilst I agree, at times that was the case the fact is, Maroney didn't perform in the Superbowl, the Patriots offense didn't perform in the Superbowl and time has proven that Maroney was an average back coached up in New England.

If Brady misses open throws we blame him, if a receiver drops a catch we blame him. Passing the buck on Maroney in 42 for let's face it, a pathetic effort on his behalf (and I've acknowledged the OL's struggles in 42) is on Maroney, not just the scheme and play calling.

For the record, I don't have an issue with Deus. His level headed posting is normally an interesting read.

The thread was about people who blamed the game plan/adjustments. Evans mentioned the TEs. You threw up Maroney out of the blue and noted

There's not much else to be said.

So quit feigning innocence. You were looking to troll (Maroney was not a part of the O.P., the thread, or Evans' comments to that point). I get that, and it's actually been a slow week so I can understand it, and that's why I changed my post, but you got to it before the changes went in. Even so, the "Who, me?" stuff is beyond ridiculous.

ausbacker · Feb 1, 2012

Deus Irae said:
The thread was about people who blamed the game plan/adjustments. Evans mentioned the TEs. You threw up Maroney out of the blue and noted

So quit feigning innocence. You were looking to troll (Maroney was not a part of the O.P., the thread, or Evans' comments to that point). I get that, and it's actually been a slow week so I can understand it, and that's why I changed my post, but you got to it before the changes went in. Even so, the "Who, me?" stuff is beyond ridiculous.

Blah blah blah, blah blah blah.

The day you stop telling people what their thought process is despite having absolutely no idea what that process is, is a day I look forward too.

Ring 6 · Feb 1, 2012

Amnorix said:
I had posted on here that I really liked the idea of going big along the line, having Solder play TE if Vollmer was back, and pounding the ball down their throats.

Then Reiss pointed out that they did alot of this during the November game, with Solder seeing a season-high 23 snaps at TE that game. The offense was, obviously, not greatly effective, however, and it was only with a spread offense and tired Giants defense in the 4th quarter that the Patriots offense started to be very successful.

I honestly don't know what the answer is...

This is one of the problems I have with us running a lot early in the game.
When we try to establish the run, typically we mix the short pass, and we end up in a lot of good, makable 3rd downs. The dink and dunk approach forces us to convert a ton of 3rd downs to drive the field. This is not the way our offense works best. We can have the start of a good drive and fail on a 3rd and 1-3, just a tipped pass or missed route adjustment.
When our O is working optimally, we are getting 1st on 1st or 2nd down.

In other words, getting into a bunch of 3rd downs makes it tough to convert every one to drive to a score, and when you have an offense that doesn't need to, a game plan that is run or short pass on 1st and 2nd down makes you much easier to defend.
That happened in the first half of this years Giant game, and seems to happen every time the offense isn't lighting up the socreboard.

Bonzo · Feb 1, 2012

AndyJohnson said:
This is one of the problems I have with us running a lot early in the game.
When we try to establish the run, typically we mix the short pass, and we end up in a lot of good, makable 3rd downs. The dink and dunk approach forces us to convert a ton of 3rd downs to drive the field. This is not the way our offense works best. We can have the start of a good drive and fail on a 3rd and 1-3, just a tipped pass or missed route adjustment.
When our O is working optimally, we are getting 1st on 1st or 2nd down.

In other words, getting into a bunch of 3rd downs makes it tough to convert every one to drive to a score, and when you have an offense that doesn't need to, a game plan that is run or short pass on 1st and 2nd down makes you much easier to defend.
That happened in the first half of this years Giant game, and seems to happen every time the offense isn't lighting up the socreboard.

I agree pretty strongly with this.

What I would like to see, if the coaches feel the O-Line can push around the Giants 4DE "pass-rush" set as folks around here have suggested, is the courage to run the ball in more likely passing situations -- 2nd & 10, 3rd & short-to-medium, etc.

elandadem · Feb 1, 2012

NinjaZX6R said:
I don't get it. If they planned to run the ball down their throats, why only have 2 TEs active for the game?

I forget who the other TE was.
I know it was Watson and Kyle Brady as TEs.

The other TE was Stephen Spach - Stephen Spach, TE for the St. Louis Rams at NFL.com.

And unfortunately he was left off the Active Roster for Super Bowl XLII. Against the Chargers in the AFC CC, that third TE (Spach) made all the difference. It prevented the Chargers Defense from applying the pressure the (very similar) Giants Defense was able to hit Brady with two weeks later.

Belichick doesn't like to do the same thing twice. I think he outcoached himself. If Spach had been on the field, Brady would have IV rings, Belichick would have VI and Coughlin would be flipping burgers in Jacksonville.

unoriginal · Feb 1, 2012

elandadem said:
The other TE was Stephen Spach - Stephen Spach, TE for the St. Louis Rams at NFL.com.

And unfortunately he was left off the Active Roster for Super Bowl XLII. Against the Chargers in the AFC CC, that third TE (Spach) made all the difference. It prevented the Chargers Defense from applying the pressure the (very similar) Giants Defense was able to hit Brady with two weeks later.

Belichick doesn't like to do the same thing twice. I think he outcoached himself. If Spach had been on the field, Brady would have IV rings, Belichick would have VI and Coughlin would be flipping burgers in Jacksonville.

Spach, at least at the time, was a terrible blocker. Execrable. The Pats cut him early in 2008 (after Week 2 I recall) because he was just blocking air, especially in the run game. They actually preferred David Thomas as their blocking TE, if you can believe that.

Slappy said:
Yeah, that is because Billy Yates is assumed when making statements about why the Pats lost that game. Kinda like the "you understood" of Pats fans.

Not only did Yates not play in the Super Bowl XLII, he was declared inactive before the game.

NinjaZX6R · Feb 1, 2012

unoriginal said:
Spach, at least at the time, was a terrible blocker. Execrable. The Pats cut him early in 2008 (after Week 2 I recall) because he was just blocking air, especially in the run game. They actually preferred David Thomas as their blocking TE, if you can believe that.

Daniel Thomas looked decent to good playing for the Saints.

unoriginal · Feb 1, 2012

NinjaZX6R said:
Daniel Thomas looked decent to good playing for the Saints.

As a blocker? I'll take your word for it. But I'll note for comparison he's the size of Aaron Hernandez, and they both came out with scouting emphasis on the pass-catching aspect of their games. I would call them both undersized.

Especially for this team. Compare them to the extra offensive tackle, Gronk, or the erstwhile Kyle Brady the Pats enjoy trotting out there, and there is no comparison.

Thomas's listed weight gave up 15 pounds to Ben Watson!

Blizzzard · Feb 1, 2012

Slappy said:
Yeah, that is because Billy Yates is assumed when making statements about why the Pats lost that game. Kinda like the "you understood" of Pats fans.

No offense.. but, what the hell are you talking about?

I read your post at least 8 times, trying to figure out what I missed. But the post is just plain unintelligible

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