Mankins vs Tuck - What happened the last time

Mogamedogz said:

We should be breaking down how they managed to beat us earlier THIS season without Hakeem Nicks and Amad Bradshaw.

It's not their defense that scares me going into this game. It's all those weapons Eli has on offense.

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Four turnovers is how we lost to them this year.

The offensive line didn't play very well, but they were better than in the SB. I'll say this though--I think they were playing panicky in that game, too. I don't see it happening again, which should reduce the mental errors. No excuses now. You know what these guys are going to bring.

They've got to get a running game going in this one.

TheComeback said:

Four turnovers is how we lost to them this year.

The offensive line didn't play very well, but they were better than in the SB. I'll say this though--I think they were playing panicky in that game, too. I don't see it happening again, which should reduce the mental errors. No excuses now. You know what these guys are going to bring.

They've got to get a running game going in this one.

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We put up 100 yards on the ground and 430 yards of total offense, the line played fine other than the strip sack on Brady. We lost that game entirely because of turnovers, penalties, and Tracy White in coverage

PatsSox363804 said:

I would love to see this. Run it at them and play action to Gronk and Welker. With the exception of Atlanta they havent really shown they can stop the run.

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I keep thinking precisely that. That the Giants will expect pass, that they're not that great against the run, and if Vollmer is healthy then we can REALLY F'N BIG on the OLine and push them around. If we can really use the run to set up the pass, then we'll really be cooking with gas.

The Giants have some big guys in their front 7, though. They're not exactly lightweights by any stretch. But if you think about running some 6 OL (Solder as TE), with Gronk/Hernandez as TE (Hernandez as RB/FB also), Welker and BJGE, then you've got some pretty sick size on the field, and alot of flexibility as to play-calling.

IMHO sets without Branch/Ocho/Slater are probably for the best. In theory those guys stretch the field and the defense out. In reality, they get no respect and make few/no plays worth mentioning (Branch's 60 yard TD notwithstanding). We need to have the most playmakers on the field possible, and dominate the LOS.

This is the sort of game where a true bruising kind of RB would be a nice tool to have in the arsenal.

Deus Irae said:

This is the sort of game where a true bruising kind of RB would be a nice tool to have in the arsenal.

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Yes, a Corey Dillon or even an Antowain Smith would be nice. But Benny runs tough and hard and always forward. Hernandez is too tall to be ideal, but he's 245 pounds and he can clearly run a few snaps out of the backfield also.

I'm all for keeping both Solder and Vollmer (assuming he's back) in the game, with Solder as a third TE.

Amnorix said:

Yes, a Corey Dillon or even an Antowain Smith would be nice. But Benny runs tough and hard and always forward. Hernandez is too tall to be ideal, but he's 245 pounds and he can clearly run a few snaps out of the backfield also.

I'm all for keeping both Solder and Vollmer (assuming he's back) in the game, with Solder as a third TE.

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I love the monster lineup in this game, even more than I liked it for the Ravens game.

Johnson (good blocking WR)
Gronk (great blocking TE)
Hernandez (Keep the Giants somewhat honest)
Light
Mankins
Connolly
Waters
Vollmer (if healthy)
Solder
BJGE
Brady

Put either Solder or Gronk in motion and have them crash down at the point of attack. The Giants D-line is light in the seat and the back 7 is nothing to really worry about. Obviously, you couldn't always go with Johnson as the receiver or the Giants would just sell out against the run, but you can always switch the WR with minimal loss of impact.

zoostation said:

don't forget meriweather (missed pick on last drive/blown coverage on helmet catch)

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Actually, according to Rodney Harrison the blown coverage on Tyree was on Samuel who must have given up on the play because he assumed Eli was sacked.

Amnorix said:

Agreed that our OLine is better now than in 2007, or at least as good. Light is older, but having a great year. Mankins is the same (but hopefully better in this SB than the last one -- maybe he was hurt??). Koppen is great at communication, etc., but isn't incredibly strong at the point of attack. Losing him isn't devastating. Waters is better than Neal/Hochstein, to be honest. Solder/Vollmer are better than Kaczur.

And Gronk is better than Brady/Watson at blocking, and infinitely better at catching, obviously.



Agreed. If Vollmer is healthy, then Pats might want to consider some 3 TE sets with Gronk and Solder as TEs and running the ball down the Giants throats.

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THAT'S the key for me.

67% of that OL is different personnel today. And each change is an improvement.

Connolly for Koppen

Waters for Neal

Solder/Vollmer for Kazcur

Gronkowski for Watson/Brady

In the blocking scheme, the only backslide compared to 2007 is the RB protection for Brady. Faulk is simply older and less robust than 2007 and the other RB's (other than perhaps Polite) just can't do what he did back then.

The Brandon Five said:

Actually, according to Rodney Harrison the blown coverage on Tyree was on Samuel who must have given up on the play because he assumed Eli was sacked.

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Yes. The D was in a 2 man under man coverage. Idiot Shamuel was on a ST string WR and when Eli broke out of the pocket, the idiot, went closer to the LOS leaving Tyree alone leaving him to go to the middle of the field.

AS can forever die in a fire.

I think i missed this thread in the aftermath. Thanks for the recollection ian.

One guy was somewhat phrophetic...

=BradyManny2344
Awesome, albeit depressing, work by Unoriginal. This is really great stuff and I was looking forward to this thread.

So in your opinion Unoriginal - there was nothing McD & BB could've done to overcome the struggling OLine? What is your opinion on the play of Brady, he's taking some criticism from people here who think he was off the mark during the game, but more likely it looks like he just didn't have enough time to be effective.

It's a frustrating conclusion to accept that with the best offense in the history of the game, there was nothing anyone could do to beat that Giants team simply b/c the OL decided not to show up. It's also a frightening thought should the two teams ever meet again in the Super Bowl, not that I think the Giants will be back, but I know we will be.

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lets hope it isn't actually FRIGHTENING.

Hope we see some heavy run packages & toss-sweeps or something to sell the play-action and slow these guys down this time.

Amnorix said:

Yes, a Corey Dillon or even an Antowain Smith would be nice. But Benny runs tough and hard and always forward. Hernandez is too tall to be ideal, but he's 245 pounds and he can clearly run a few snaps out of the backfield also.

I'm all for keeping both Solder and Vollmer (assuming he's back) in the game, with Solder as a third TE.

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Something to consider is that Vollmer began his career as a TE. It wouldn't surprise me to see him, rather than Solder, coming in to play that heavy TE role. Could make sense with the amount of time he's missed.

NinjaZX6R said:

Yes. The D was in a 2 man under man coverage. Idiot Shamuel was on a ST string WR and when Eli broke out of the pocket, the idiot, went closer to the LOS leaving Tyree alone leaving him to go to the middle of the field.

AS can forever die in a fire.

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Bitter much?

I actually agree completely.

PatsSox363804 said:

We put up 100 yards on the ground and 430 yards of total offense, the line played fine other than the strip sack on Brady. We lost that game entirely because of turnovers, penalties, and Tracy White in coverage

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Aren't you forgetting someone...

http://www.jerseyssuper.com/images//nfl jerseys/New England Patriots blue/31 Brown, Sergio.jpg

The Brandon Five said:

Actually, according to Rodney Harrison the blown coverage on Tyree was on Samuel who must have given up on the play because he assumed Eli was sacked.

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Samuel was within range to help Rodney in breaking up that pass. If you watch the replay, he just pulls up and stands there apparently figuring Rodney has things under control. Pisses me off every time.

SpiderFox53 said:

Bitter much?

I actually agree completely.

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Oh yeah. I still can't let it go. Even if we win this SB, that game will forever bother me.

SVN said:

Everyone sucked that game including the coaches. BB went for it from 4th and 20 something instead of a 50 yard field goal!!!

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Ghost hadn't kicked a 50 yarder all year in 2007, which would explain why BB went for it. However, as i was arguing at the time, they should have pooched punted the ball. The defense only gave up 17 points all game, so why not punt it and pin the giants back? That was the single biggest coaching mistake of the last SB.

NinjaZX6R said:

Oh yeah. I still can't let it go. Even if we win this SB, that game will forever bother me.

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Don't feel bad, I have nightmares about that damn ball going right through Asante's hands.

SpiderFox53 said:

Don't feel bad, I have nightmares about that damn ball going right through Asante's hands.

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See, I don't care about that. That ball was a tat past his catching radius but this idiot broke the Patriots Cardinal rule: Do your Job.

That's why I don't hold Meriweather responsible for dropping his potential INT or Harrision failing to take that helmet ball away. Harrision wasn't responsible for him.

I'm thinking they need to run heavily on the Giants. Their DL aren't that big, they are more quick, not sure about the LBs. If you can establish the run.....

Another poster here started a thread with that topic.

Believe it or not.

letekro said:

Aren't you forgetting someone...

http://www.jerseyssuper.com/images//nfl jerseys/New England Patriots blue/31 Brown, Sergio.jpg

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Falls under penalties