Thank You For Your Service B.O.B. - Why Don't You Start FT at PSU Now

BigHoss28 said:

I think it is at least partly on O'Brien. The first read was clearly the go. The first read is determined by the playcall.

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Absolutely. BOB sending in that personnel grouping was a mistake. The Pats had everything they needed (the ball, the clock, field position, momentum) to end the game with a DRIVE...not a big play. When you have someone in a choke-hold, you carefully and slowly squeeze the life out of them. You don't loosen your grip to grab a knife to finish them off.

BigHoss28 said:

Brady should've checked out of the play before the snap anyway, so yes a lot of it falls on Brady as well.

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He didn't need to check out of the play. If the Ravens brought pressure, he could go long since it would have been Slater v. Pollard with no help, which is a winner. The Ravens dropped off immediately and a key thing happened...Brady was under absolutely no pressure. The Ravens rushed 3, Light had one guy on the ground and the other two were double-teamed and going nowhere. That tells Brady 2 things:

1) They have 8 in coverage
2) I literally have all day to throw the ball

That read is a giant red 'X' on any deep pass without even seeing Slater's situation. His eyes should have gone to his slot guys but those routes were crowded. Welker ran a drag route from the offensive left to right and that completion would have effectively been a long hand-off. Brady even had a clear throwing lane that way. 5 yard completion and the potential for solid YAC. Either a 1st down nearing FG range or a 2nd and short.

So that was a key error that can't happen in the Super Bowl and BOB and TB share the blame. You have to like learning experiences that don't end up costing you. As long as this turns into a learning experience about what the Pats offense is (efficiency machine that kills with a thousand paper cuts) and what it isn't (aggressive downfield attack). The former will wear out the Giants and pressure Goober Jr into mistakes. The latter will get Brady knocked around and allow the Giants offense to stay within themselves.

cavtroop said:

My only beef with the gameplan was the lack of running BJGE. He was KILLING the Ravens - had an 8+ YPC at one point. Yet, he'd rip off two big runs, then come out of the game for the rest of the series. Woodhead would come in for some strange reason.

WTH?

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Should have done it more to get them out of the nickel ... or to at least force them into a larger slower nickel.

ATippett56 said:

Would have been better off to run BJGE into the line of scrimmage three straight times, take time off the clock, and allow the New England Patriots defense a well deserved break.

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When the interception happened, this is what I said out loud. "OK boys, not just run it with BJGE and dare the Ravens to stack the box."

And then Brady called that stupid play deep to Slater. I knew as soon as he lofted it up that it was going to be intercepted. Granted, it too a great play by Pollard, but still.

Metaphors said:

Absolutely. BOB sending in that personnel grouping was a mistake. The Pats had everything they needed (the ball, the clock, field position, momentum) to end the game with a DRIVE...not a big play. When you have someone in a choke-hold, you carefully and slowly squeeze the life out of them. You don't loosen your grip to grab a knife to finish them off.



He didn't need to check out of the play. If the Ravens brought pressure, he could go long since it would have been Slater v. Pollard with no help, which is a winner. The Ravens dropped off immediately and a key thing happened...Brady was under absolutely no pressure. The Ravens rushed 3, Light had one guy on the ground and the other two were double-teamed and going nowhere. That tells Brady 2 things:

1) They have 8 in coverage
2) I literally have all day to throw the ball

That read is a giant red 'X' on any deep pass without even seeing Slater's situation. His eyes should have gone to his slot guys but those routes were crowded. Welker ran a drag route from the offensive left to right and that completion would have effectively been a long hand-off. Brady even had a clear throwing lane that way. 5 yard completion and the potential for solid YAC. Either a 1st down nearing FG range or a 2nd and short.

So that was a key error that can't happen in the Super Bowl and BOB and TB share the blame. You have to like learning experiences that don't end up costing you. As long as this turns into a learning experience about what the Pats offense is (efficiency machine that kills with a thousand paper cuts) and what it isn't (aggressive downfield attack). The former will wear out the Giants and pressure Goober Jr into mistakes. The latter will get Brady knocked around and allow the Giants offense to stay within themselves.

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Totally agree. The Patriots offense is actually very well suited to take apart the Giants' defense. There is no way the Giants can cover between the hash marks against the Patriots, the only way they can is to float the safeties up, in which case the TE seam or deep inside post is wide open.

shmessy said:

I'm sorry, but that was a ridiculously badly called offensive game yesterday.

BJGE/Woody and the OL are PLOWING the Ravens down the middle consistently - - - so let's go AWAY from that!

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It seemed to me that there was a remarkable correlation between the Pats' RBs "PLOWING the Ravens down the middle" and Haloti Ngata being out of the game. And similarly, that the playcallers mysteriously abandoning the running game coincided with Ngata's return. My imagination?

BigHoss28 said:

I'm not disagreeing with you. Slater was a poor personnel choice.

I honestly, no offense, don't care how another team finished off the Ravens earlier in the season, it isn't comparable in any way. Different situations, players, just a thousand variables.

I love screens, and a screen or draw (draw would've been a better choice because there is no danger of an incomplete pass) on first down is exactly what I would've run.

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The problem with screens and the reason we didn't see any is that the Ravens are EXTREMELY good at sniffing them out.

I agree that a draw would have been a better choice. or even a slam up the middle..

Folks:

This thread has veered towards only one play in the game. I thought there was an entire body of work last night to question.

I feel Bill O'Brien has been a very good OC for the Patriots.

However, he is now employed also by Penn State.

Succeeding a legend, now a late legend, now (in the eyes of most PSU students/alum) a MARTYRED late legend. He is going to a situation where his bosses are on VERY thin ice and the fans are ready to rip him.

With the MOST CRUCIAL 9 days of a college season coming up DURING the runup to the Super Bowl. (As opposed to the NFL, college is all about recruiting - not about coaching - - just ask Steve Spurrier, Pete Carroll or Nick Saban).

Please excuse me if I think we may not get this gentleman's "best work" at this time.

patchick said:

It seemed to me that there was a remarkable correlation between the Pats' RBs "PLOWING the Ravens down the middle" and Haloti Ngata being out of the game. And similarly, that the playcallers mysteriously abandoning the running game coincided with Ngata's return. My imagination?

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However running off tackle wears down the defensive ends, which in turn will eventually slows down the pass rush off the edges.

Regardless, the New England Patriots offensive play calling needed to revert to Corey "clock killing" Dillon form as was the case against the Indianapolis Colts in the 2004 AFC Divisional Playoffs.

Totally agree.. move on BOB, please.

I agree but still, Brady should know better. He better stop forcing the ball in big games and just hit the open receivers or his legacy might end up being a great regular season QB and a guy who fell apart when facing strong opponents. I just can't imagine him playing that bad twice.

soxpatsbscs said:

I agree but still, Brady should know better. He better stop forcing the ball in big games and just hit the open receivers or his legacy might end up being a great regular season QB and a guy who fell apart when facing strong opponents. I just can't imagine him playing that bad twice.

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Brady is 16-5 in the playoffs. How is that anything but great?

Montana is 16-7, Bradshaw 14-5 and Elway 14-7.

shmessy said:

BB has ONE employer.

BB is not concerned with National Letter of Intent Day on Wednesday February 1st.

Any further out of context questions?

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BB asked BOB to stay

shmessy said:

Folks:

This thread has veered towards only one play in the game. I thought there was an entire body of work last night to question.

I feel Bill O'Brien has been a very good OC for the Patriots.

However, he is now employed also by Penn State.

Succeeding a legend, now a late legend, now (in the eyes of most PSU students/alum) a MARTYRED late legend. He is going to a situation where his bosses are on VERY thin ice and the fans are ready to rip him.

With the MOST CRUCIAL 9 days of a college season coming up DURING the runup to the Super Bowl. (As opposed to the NFL, college is all about recruiting - not about coaching - - just ask Steve Spurrier, Pete Carroll or Nick Saban).

Please excuse me if I think we may not get this gentleman's "best work" at this time.

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Bill Bellichik and I disagree

reflexblue said:

At one time the pats were one of the best at running the screen which seems to have been forgotten under BOB. If your going to pass that much you need to slow the pass rush down. Something that seems to have been forgotten

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But the facts are that we screen just as often as ever.

shmessy said:

Please. That's ridiculous.

We can hope BB makes this decision or that decision 20 times per day without any one of us thinking presumptuously that we know more than BB.

I am concerned that BOB has 2 employers and a National Letter of Intent Day 3 days before the SB. I felt he called a very poor gameplan yesterday - - and while YOU may want to center the entire discussion on just ONE play, the discussion was based on the entire game.

If you want to make the Bob Beamon record leap to interpreting that as "You think you know more than BB", then go for it - knock yourself out.

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seems to me Charlie Wiess was employed by the Pats and Notre Dame and he did just fine.

shmessy said:

Folks:

This thread has veered towards only one play in the game. I thought there was an entire body of work last night to question.

I feel Bill O'Brien has been a very good OC for the Patriots.

However, he is now employed also by Penn State.

Succeeding a legend, now a late legend, now (in the eyes of most PSU students/alum) a MARTYRED late legend. He is going to a situation where his bosses are on VERY thin ice and the fans are ready to rip him.

With the MOST CRUCIAL 9 days of a college season coming up DURING the runup to the Super Bowl. (As opposed to the NFL, college is all about recruiting - not about coaching - - just ask Steve Spurrier, Pete Carroll or Nick Saban).

Please excuse me if I think we may not get this gentleman's "best work" at this time.

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seems to me telling your Offensive Coord to leave during Superbowl preparation week would be akin to John Tomase breaking spygate news.

we do not need that controversy and distraction right now. even if BB wanted to wean him out of the playcalling I don't think he would do it so overtly.

BigHoss28 said:

A smart OC knows his own tendencies and abandons them for a game like this.

Doesn't mean he doesn't stay in line with some of them, but I think you'd have to be a moron to adhere to your tendencies in a one game sample situation.

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Please write more posts. You have great insights.

patchick said:

It seemed to me that there was a remarkable correlation between the Pats' RBs "PLOWING the Ravens down the middle" and Haloti Ngata being out of the game. And similarly, that the playcallers mysteriously abandoning the running game coincided with Ngata's return. My imagination?

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I just rewatched the entire game, and while there were some substitutions made simply based on Ngata's presence (where you undoubtedly took your cue), the fact remains that he was run upon plenty of times.

On BJGE's TD run, Gronk single-handedly took Ngata out of the play.

LOL. Bob had a few bad play calls against the Ravens and people are shipping him out of town. I like McDaniels but he hasn't been great since he left the pats. Bob has done a great job with the offense this year (especially the tight ends) and I have confidence that he will come up with a very good game plan for the Super Bowl. Josh has to spend some time with the new players on offense before he takes over the play calling duties.

MrBigglesWorth said:

seems to me Charlie Wiess was employed by the Pats and Notre Dame and he did just fine.

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Your memory is not sharp.

SB 39:

New England Patriots vs. Philadelphia Eagles - Recap - February 06, 2005 - ESPN

After two dominating performances against superior teams in the Colts and Steelers, the Pats somehow struggled mightily against the Philadelphia Eagles in the SB.

Everyone remembers how pitiful McNabb looked not managing the clock down the stretch, but few remember that he outpassed Brady by over 100 yards in that game.

Charlie WAS distracted in the two weeks between the AFCCG and the SB.

Difference was that Charlie Weis was not replacing a beloved legend at his new job and we didn't have a proven OC who knew the players already sitting in the press box.

So, sorry, you comparison fails. The situation is COMPLETELY different this time around.