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Clark Judge discusses a need to change Defensive Rankings


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The NFL has changed this game so much that they are making it impossible to compare teams from yesteryear using the same statistical format.
 
The only way you could get a true "total defense" ranking for teams is if someone were to make a formula which dictated the importance of all the stats (yards, points allowed, sacks etc) and then when they are added together the final number is a teams total defense ranking - not just yards allowed.
 
Points allowed should be the most important statistic, rather than yards allowed, particularly with the pass-happy league we have now.
 
The current defensive ranking measurement works great. The Pats defense SUCKS and is ranked 31st. The Packers defense is slightly SUCKIER than the Pats and is ranked 32nd. Seems like a pretty accurate ranking to me.

Of the 32 teams in the NFL this year, I would want any other defense besides ours and the Packers going into this game. Seems pretty accurate to me.

Take off the "Homer" glasses and look yourself in the mirror and admit, "The Pats defense really, really SUCKS this year."

Just by watching the Pats defense you can tell it is a bottom dweller. Who needs stats? Use your eyes!!!!!!!!!!!

Go Pats...............
 
My idea would be to rank points allowed on drives against the defense only, weighted by how many yards the other team had to go to score.

For example, let's say a team starts at their own 20, and marches 80 yards down field for a TD. The defense would get 7*.80 points allowed (5.6) for the interest of these rankings. Let's say the next drive they start at the opposing 30 because of a turnover, and go the necessary 30 for the TD. They would only be credited with 7*.30 (2.1) points allowed towards the defensive ranking.

This way it accounts for TD's versus FG's (7 pts vs. 3 in the calc), as well as yards allowed on the drives that matter (aka, the ones that actually result in points). It also doesn't punish a defense as much in the rankings for having an inept or turnover prone offense.
 
My idea would be to rank points allowed on drives against the defense only, weighted by how many yards the other team had to go to score.

For example, let's say a team starts at their own 20, and marches 80 yards down field for a TD. The defense would get 7*.80 points allowed (5.6) for the interest of these rankings. Let's say the next drive they start at the opposing 30 because of a turnover, and go the necessary 30 for the TD. They would only be credited with 7*.30 (2.1) points allowed towards the defensive ranking.

This way it accounts for TD's versus FG's (7 pts vs. 3 in the calc), as well as yards allowed on the drives that matter (aka, the ones that actually result in points). It also doesn't punish a defense as much in the rankings for having an inept or turnover prone offense.

That's not bad. I'd also try and factor in some sort of bonus points for the number of turnovers (grouped together: Blocked FG's, fumbles, int's) the number of sacks, and number of 3 & outs forced.

Actually, a separate stat of 3 & outs (positive numbers) and 1st downs allowed (negative numbers), with that total added to the above would be good.

But yeah, a final number rating of between 1 and 100 (or whatever) would give everyone a good idea of the actual strength of a defense, as opposed to what we have now.
 
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If they change the Defensive Rankings, then they should also modify the QB rating so that it takes into account rushing yards, rushing attempts, rushing TD's, and fumbles.
 
Why not just do what everybody who thinks does, and not consider yardage rankings meaningful?
 
If they change the Defensive Rankings, then they should also modify the QB rating so that it takes into account rushing yards, rushing attempts, rushing TD's, and fumbles.

Because its called PASSER RATING.
And it is also a terrible metric of QB play, other than separating good from bad. Arguing that such a ridiculously contrived formula can really assess what QB played better among QBs who played well is ridiculous.
 
Been saying this for months now. Been typing it so much I have blisters on my fingers.

Or how about instead of re-inventing the wheel we just use what's already available and smart bettors already know.

Use their actual scoring ability or scoring allowed efficiency which is easily available to anyone in yards per point.

NE's defense is rated #2 in the league and GB #4. San Francisco is still #1. Pittsburg #3. Baltimore #7.

Doesn't that make a little bit more sense?

It does when you start looking at offenses too, considering it matches up better than any other stat to their actual freaking winning records. Especially when you consider 90% of the time the more efficient offense wins the football game for the day. A team with an inefficient offense like Pittsburgh, 27th, wasn't really an overdog to the Broncos who were tracking 11th all season, and 15th in defense. Sure they rank lower now, but still higher then Pittsburg when they faced and that was even connsidering their 1-4 start with Orton and after their 3 game skid. They got exposed by a much more balanced team. And the 27th most inefficient offense is rarely going to beat the number 11th offense, despite their #1 defense. A number 11 offense can move against the #1 defense. A number 27th offense can't move without committing some kind of costly mistake, like a turnover, which is exactly what they did. It was a given.

Or you know...people can continue to be "upset" and lose money on betting and leave this up to the ones who know about it to continue to rob them on football bets :)

It's funny because in the NBA, offensive efficiency is listed right there on ESPN and it's incredibly accurate. They rely on it in college football too. But in the NFL, where it's most appropriate and works best....oh no....they bury it and confuse people with yards, red-zone stats and a bunch of other meaningless crap.
 
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Been saying this for months now. Been typing it so much I have blisters on my fingers.

Or how about instead of re-inventing the wheel we just use what's already available and smart bettors already know.

Use their actual scoring ability or scoring allowed efficiency which is easily available to anyone in yards per point.

NE's defense is rated #2 in the league and GB #4. San Francisco is still #1. Pittsburg #3. Baltimore #7.

Doesn't that make a little bit more sense?

It does when you start looking at offenses too, considering it matches up better than any other stat to their actual freaking winning records. Especially when you consider 90% of the time the more efficient offense wins the football game for the day. A team with an inefficient offense like Pittsburgh, rather 27th, wasn't really an overdog to the Broncos who were tracking 11th all season, and 15th in defense. Sure they rank lower now, but still higher then Pittsburg when they faced and that was even connsidering their 1-4 start with Orton and after their 3 game skid. They got exposed by a much more balanced team.

Or you know...people can continue to be "upset" and lose money on betting and leave this up to the ones who know about it to continue to rob them on football bets :)

It's funny because in the NBA, offensive efficiency is listed right there on ESPN and it's incredibly accurate. They rely on it in college football too. But in the NFL, where it's most appropriate and works best....oh no....they bury it and confuse people with yards, red-zone stats and a bunch of other meaningless crap.

Where are you getting those numbers?
 
Been saying this for months now. Been typing it so much I have blisters on my fingers.

Or how about instead of re-inventing the wheel we just use what's already available and smart bettors already know.

Use their actual scoring ability or scoring allowed efficiency which is easily available to anyone in yards per point.

NE's defense is rated #2 in the league and GB #4. San Francisco is still #1. Pittsburg #3. Baltimore #7.

Doesn't that make a little bit more sense?

It does when you start looking at offenses too, considering it matches up better than any other stat to their actual freaking winning records. Especially when you consider 90% of the time the more efficient offense wins the football game for the day. A team with an inefficient offense like Pittsburgh, 27th, wasn't really an overdog to the Broncos who were tracking 11th all season, and 15th in defense. Sure they rank lower now, but still higher then Pittsburg when they faced and that was even connsidering their 1-4 start with Orton and after their 3 game skid. They got exposed by a much more balanced team. And the 27th most inefficient offense is rarely going to beat the number 11th offense, despite their #1 defense. A number 11 offense can move against the #1 defense. A number 27th offense can't move without committing some kind of costly mistake, like a turnover, which is exactly what they did. It was a given.

Or you know...people can continue to be "upset" and lose money on betting and leave this up to the ones who know about it to continue to rob them on football bets :)

It's funny because in the NBA, offensive efficiency is listed right there on ESPN and it's incredibly accurate. They rely on it in college football too. But in the NFL, where it's most appropriate and works best....oh no....they bury it and confuse people with yards, red-zone stats and a bunch of other meaningless crap.

Did you really argue that stats that say the 9-8 team is more likely to win than the 12-5 team are valid because of one game?
That makes no sense. The 27th ranked (whereever you are getting that) Steelers being 12-5 and the 11th ranked Broncos being 9-8 is more statistically significant than which team broke the tie in OT of one game between them,
 
That's not bad. I'd also try and factor in some sort of bonus points for the number of turnovers (grouped together: Blocked FG's, fumbles, int's) the number of sacks, and number of 3 & outs forced.

Actually, a separate stat of 3 & outs (positive numbers) and 1st downs allowed (negative numbers), with that total added to the above would be good.

But yeah, a final number rating of between 1 and 100 (or whatever) would give everyone a good idea of the actual strength of a defense, as opposed to what we have now.

I think I'll actually make this an experiment for next season (too much data to pour through already this season). But I'll basically take every scoring play (TD, FG, Safety) and assign a percentage of the points to each of the 3 phases. A kickoff to the 20, followed by an 80 yard TD drive would result in:

Scoring team's ST gets 1.4 pts, Off gets 5.6

Defensive team's ST gets 1.4 pats allowed, Def gets 5.6 points allowed.

On turnovers, the D gets offensive credit for the field position given. If they force a punt, you split the field position credit between them and the STs.

This should give an idea of relative credit for each unit over the course of a season.
 
Figures lie...and liars figure.

Suppose that the best defense in the league allowed 320 yards and 14 points a game, and the worst defense allowed 420 yards and 24 points a game.

The top defense could be 1-15 and the worst defense could be 15-1, similar to this years results.

The statistics show a clear difference between top and bottom rankings, yet mean nothing when it comes to ranking the teams.

I'll stick with BB's method...the final score is the only stat that counts.
 
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