Positional ranking 3-4 DE Pre Combine

Ochmed Jones said:

I could not agree more. That is why I think we really need to draft DE Cox in the first round at #32. At #30 we need to take a pass rushing demon like Montgomery of LSU.

As for Worthy, I see him as a pure 4-3 DT with little chance of converting to a 3-4 DE.

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I'm afraid that the way his stock is rising, it would be a miracle if Fletcher Cox is available at #32. Particularly as he himself said apparently that he times in the 4.6's for a 40. Even allowing for exaggeration, I think Fletcher Cox is this years JJ Watt, the D/lineman with exceptional measurables and will probably get drafted not too dissimilarly.

I think you are also right on Worhy as a DT. But if we're running a 4 man line...

Ochmed Jones said:

I could not agree more. That is why I think we really need to draft DE Cox in the first round at #32. At #30 we need to take a pass rushing demon like Montgomery of LSU.

As for Worthy, I see him as a pure 4-3 DT with little chance of converting to a 3-4 DE.

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Thoughts on Cox as LDE or DT on our 4 man front?

If both Jerel Worthy and Fletcher Cox are BOTH available when we pick, which one do you prefer?

I think Worthy is a big upgrade over Kyle Love. He's quick and powerful.

I'm a 4-3 man myself.

Following WalterFootball's latest mock, I'd take Whitney Mercilus with our first first, then the best player available after that who plays on the D-line. If JW and FC are both available, I'd almost flip a coin, call Ochmed, or go with the guy with the cool tat of a Spartan crushing a Skunk Bear.

WalterFootball.com: 2012 NFL Mock Draft: First Round Continued

manxman2601 said:

I'm afraid that the way his stock is rising, it would be a miracle if Fletcher Cox is available at #32. Particularly as he himself said apparently that he times in the 4.6's for a 40. Even allowing for exaggeration, I think Fletcher Cox is this years JJ Watt, the D/lineman with exceptional measurables and will probably get drafted not too dissimilarly.

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I feel the same way, but his best fit is at 34 DE. That can at least eliminate some teams. Hard to believe he could run a 4.6. Ideally we'd get Cox in the late 20s and trade the second first rounder to a team picking high in the second round.

Heres to hoping the Saints get knocked out first round.

State said:

If both Jerel Worthy and Fletcher Cox are BOTH available when we pick, which one do you prefer?

I think Worthy is a big upgrade over Kyle Love. He's quick and powerful.

I'm a 4-3 man myself.

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I don't think drafting Worthy to replace Love is a good use of resources. It just wouldn't be a big enough upgrade. I'd rather use that pick somewhere else as long as it's defense.

VrabelJr said:

Mankins is smart nasty. Seymour is stupid nasty. Suh is spoiled nasty. Gholston is flat out ******ed nasty.

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You don't know what you're talking about when it comes to the giant man-child William Gholston, who is better than any DE on the Patriots.

Michigan State's William Gholston Post Game vs Georgia - YouTube

Cordy Glenn of Georgia couldn't dominate him in their bowl game, that's for sure. And the kid's a sophomore.

He retaliated against a ***** scUM LT, Taylor Lewan, who had pulled him by the facemask to the freakin' ground. Gholston came up swinging. And he tried to break scUM scatback QB, which I applaud.

Randy Moss committed more mayhem in the Marshall dining hall.

Merril Hoge's Tie Knot said:

I feel the same way, but his best fit is at 34 DE. That can at least eliminate some teams. Hard to believe he could run a 4.6. Ideally we'd get Cox in the late 20s and trade the second first rounder to a team picking high in the second round.

Heres to hoping the Saints get knocked out first round.

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I think this is the problem. The reason why so many mocks have Worthy, Mercilus and even Zach Brown falling our way is the number of 3-4 teams picking ahead of us.

manxman2601 said:

I think this is the problem. The reason why so many mocks have Worthy, Mercilus and even Zach Brown falling our way is the number of 3-4 teams picking ahead of us.

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Yeah but there will be even more 43 teams. It's a positive, even if not a big one.

State said:

You don't know what you're talking about when it comes to the giant man-child William Gholston, who is better than any DE on the Patriots.

Cordy Glenn of Georgia couldn't dominate him in their bowl game, that's for sure. And the kid's a sophomore.

He retaliated against a ***** scUM LT, Taylor Lewan, who had pulled him by the facemask to the freakin' ground. Gholston came up swinging. And he tried to break scUM scatback QB, which I applaud.

Randy Moss committed more mayhem in the Marshall dining hall.

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Come on man, everyone knows all the MSU players are straight thugs. scUM players are perfect!

manxman2601 said:

I think this is the problem. The reason why so many mocks have Worthy, Mercilus and even Zach Brown falling our way is the number of 3-4 teams picking ahead of us.

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I do find it interesting that this year a lot of 4-3 players appear to be dropping in the draft. Coples and Brown for example.

It seems that every year the guys that can play both schemes tend to have a late rise. And pass rushers that run well have an even faster rise, usually to the single digits range of the draft board.

This year Upshaw has had a huge rise despite not being a "speed" guy. On satellite radio today, they said Buffalo is drooling over him and would jump at the chance to reunite him with Dareus.

MSU said:

Did he sleep with your wife or something? Or are you upset about the beatdown he put on Miller and OSU this year? Or should I say O$U.

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10-3 win is not a beatdown. Beating up some frosh LT and a Ryan Diem RT in Shutgart isn't a beatdown. That being said, He has a better ceiling than his useless cousin.

MP-Logick said:

Is Ty Warren not a defensive end?

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Yes. Played LDE in a 43 in college too. The Broncos planned to use him as their 43 LDE but he got injured.

I'm not sure I want us to go back to the three-man front. Love's had a good year, but stick a real disruptor in there next to by Vince and that's potentially the best DT combo in the league. Worthy would make a very very nice partner.

BritPat said:

I'm not sure I want us to go back to the three-man front. Love's had a good year, but stick a real disruptor in there next to by Vince and that's potentially the best DT combo in the league. Worthy would make a very very nice partner.

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catching up on my bowl games and have watched Georgia - MSU. Firstly have to say, what a game! Fantastic defenses by both teams. Secondly, was really impressed by Worthy and the violent punch he gets on O/Linemen at the snap. Really starting to warm to him as an option in the first. I think Worthy can be a top top player in the league.

PS. Whenever Alec Ogletree, Georgia's MLB comes out, we should do everything in our power to draft him. Fantastic performance against MSU.

NinjaZX6R said:

Yes. Played LDE in a 43 in college too.

The Broncos planned to use him as their 43 LDE but he got injured.

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He understands that: It was a rhetorical question.

BritPat said:

I'm not sure I want us to go back to the three-man front. Love's had a good year, but stick a real disruptor in there next to by Vince and that's potentially the best DT combo in the league. Worthy would make a very very nice partner.

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I wholeheartily agree, mate.

Worthy EXPLODES off the line, too often anticipating the snap. Kyle Love is a nice player for us, but he appears to play patty-cake for a second or two. You guys would notice the contrast once JW is plugged in there.

Providing an interior push on passing plays...we haven't had that since Bobby Hamilton.

Worthy or Cox, flip a coin. But Worthy is good against both the run and the pass. Is this true with Cox?

And wasn't BB looking for an interior rush with the Harneworth signing??
And correspondingly with the release of Ty Warren.

Sounds like this is the type of player they are looking for.

State said:

I wholeheartily agree, mate.

Worthy EXPLODES off the line, too often anticipating the snap. Kyle Love is a nice player for us, but he appears to play patty-cake for a second or two. You guys would notice the contrast once JW is plugged in there.

Providing an interior push on passing plays...we haven't had that since Bobby Hamilton.

Worthy or Cox, flip a coin. But Worthy is good against both the run and the pass. Is this true with Cox?

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sg14 said:

And wasn't BB looking for an interior rush with the Harneworth signing??
And correspondingly with the release of Ty Warren.

Sounds like this is the type of player they are looking for.

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To be fair, in the first half of the season, for the most part, Pats D line was 1 gapping in a 4 man line..not 2 gapping.

BB's bread and butter is 2 gapping.

BritPat said:

I'm not sure I want us to go back to the three-man front. Love's had a good year, but stick a real disruptor in there next to by Vince and that's potentially the best DT combo in the league. Worthy would make a very very nice partner.

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The Pats never stopped using the 3-man front. In fact, going to the 3-man front of Deaderick, Love, Wilfork is how they shut down Denver for the better part of 2.5 quarters..

Seems to me that BB won't stop using a 3-man/2-gapping front or configuring his roster to be able to produce an effective one any time soon. Sure, I'm well aware that the NFL is a "passing league nowadays." But, as I've posted before, the fact is that, for the past few seasons, the Pats have played about half of their regular season games against top ten rushers and/or top ten rushing teams. In order to reach the post-season, a team must win at least 11 or 12 of its regular season games. In order to do that, the team's defense must be configured to contain what a significant portion of their regular season opponents' offenses are capable of doing well (or at least what they focus on). If the Pats' opponents' ground games continue to be so prominent, a good three-man front will continue to be a significant part of BB's arsenal.

Among the many reasons that the Lions' defense failed to stop the Saints last night was the fact that their gap-shooting attack dogs (Suh, Fairley, KVB, Avril) not only failed to get much pressure on Brees, but they also consistently allowed the Saints RBs to get well past the LoS into the LBs and the secondary (who, then, couldn't tackle for squat), and the Saints hung 167 rushing yards (at a 4.6 clip) and 3 rushing TDs on them, which certainly didn't hurt Brees' play-action game.

In contrast, in last season's playoff game, the Saints couldn't muster any ground game and had nothing defensively to counter the Seahawks' and Lynch.