Booing a 12-3 home team for going 3 and out: No Class

PatsWSB47 · Dec 29, 2011

FirstAndGoal said:
When you pay for your seats, you can do what you want. If others don't like it, they can stuff it. If it weren't for ticket holders, they wouldn't be watching the games as most were blacked out before most of these complainers were born. This thread is a complete waste of space and for those who don't like it, buy out the stadium and fill it with people you want. Until then, stuff it.

It's your money and and as is your seat for sure. Knock yourself out and boo as loud as as long as you want. One could look at it that way and technically would be correct. Personally I don't look at my seats that I paid for as as strict customer demanding satisfaction with a product situation. The Patriots are not appliances that I bought and get tossed in the garbage or returned to the manufacturer with my hands ringing, hollering at the customer service rep about my displeasure.

No I'm not just a paying for my seat customer, but a fan of my team. A fan through thick and thin that suffers the pain of loss right along with players that lost. We win and lose together for the most part. Does that mean that there aren't times when boo's can be understandable? No, of course not. But I wish we could lose this, "they're my seats, I'm the customer and the customer is always right, nobody's gonna tell ME what to do or you can stuff it!" attitude.

mosslost · Dec 29, 2011

rookBoston said:
One thing has me pretty pissed, the fact that the Foxboro fan base is way too ready to boo their home team. I hear boos for going 3 and out against Miami (in a win), or for giving up a TD drive to the Colts in garbage time (also a win). It's embarrassing. Fans should not be booing a 12-3 team, a team that has dominated the AFC for a decade. All it does is prove that New England fans are ungrateful, selfish, spoiled and ignorant. No class.

When the camera rolls over to Peyton on the sidelines in the 4th quarter, a guy who is trying to keep the broken pieces of his team and his career together, watching the Colts get dismantled, I could almost hear him thinking "they're booing? 31-10 in the 4th. We could only be so lucky".

The Pat's decade-plus of success has turned Patriots Nation into a bunch of entitled assho!es, who think they know how to run a football team. They don't deserve a franchise stacked with hard working, professional players who have their heads screwed on right and kill themselves to win each week. I blame the damn Boston media, who are a bunch of mutton heads, know almost nothing about the game, but love to hear themselves criticize almost everything Belichick does.

If you think this team deserves to hear it from the crowd, what you really need is an 0-16 season to remind you what bad football looks like. Granted, this is not the 2007 team, or the 2003 team in terms of completeness. But the 2011 team is competitive, clinched the playoffs (again!), scrappy and committed.

And that with devastating injuries...Koppen, Light, Mankins, Vollmer all out against Miami, 4 of 5 starters on the line!!!... and you're booing the rookies and practice squad guys drafted into service, playing out of position? Fans should have some PERSPECTIVE. Any other franchise would have folded long ago.

I've got buddies who are die hard Seahawks fans, some Browns fans, too. My brother married into the Bills fan base. They watch their teams screw up and lose almost every other week. They are committed to their teams for better or worse. They are thrilled just to get into the playoffs. A win is a big deal, not a foregone conclusion. They've got more cause to boo.

Fans are supposed to be supporters, not self-righteous bastards. Stop booing. You're a humiliation to the rest of us.

Boo em for lousy play. Its fine.

Tunescribe · Dec 29, 2011

PatsSB42 said:
It's your money and and as is your seat for sure. Knock yourself out and boo as loud as as long as you want. One could look at it that way and technically would be correct. Personally I don't look at my seats that I paid for as as strict customer demanding satisfaction with a product situation. The Patriots are not appliances that I bought and get tossed in the garbage or returned to the manufacturer with my hands ringing, hollering at the customer service rep about my displeasure.

No I'm not just a paying for my seat customer, but a fan of my team. A fan through thick and thin that suffers the pain of loss right along with players that lost. We win and lose together for the most part. Does that mean that there aren't times when boo's can be understandable? No, of course not. But I wish we could lose this, "they're my seats, I'm the customer and the customer is always right, nobody's gonna tell ME what to do or you can stuff it!" attitude.

I'm willing to wager that most of the folks here who staunchly defend booing as a performance motivator never played football (or other team sport) at the high school, college or higher level.

mosslost · Dec 29, 2011

Tunescribe said:
I'm willing to wager that most of the folks here who staunchly defend booing as a performance motivator never played football (or other team sport) at the high school, college or higher level.

I don't see it as a performance boost or anything. Just the right of a consumer of a crap product at the moment. (I.e perhaps poor effort?? If you felt there was poor effort, its your right to boo, its just a product)

Seanzayyy · Dec 29, 2011

Booing = punishment.

Cheering = positive reinforcement.

It's classical conditioning. Positive reinforcement is a better method to use.

Sure, fans can boo if they want. It's their money, I suppose. But booing most likely demoralizes the players where cheering on a positive play would motivate them to continue to get those cheers.

Tunescribe · Dec 29, 2011

mosslost said:
I don't see it as a performance boost or anything. Just the right of a consumer of a crap product at the moment. (I.e perhaps poor effort?? If you felt there was poor effort, its your right to boo, its just a product)

The problem lies in accurately assessing what constitutes poor effort. Poor results don't always mean poor effort, and that's where understanding the game itself comes into play. Most fans don't know enough to make that distinction especially at the professional level.

PatsWSB47 · Dec 29, 2011

mosslost said:
I don't see it as a performance boost or anything. Just the right of a consumer of a crap product at the moment. (I.e perhaps poor effort?? If you felt there was poor effort, its your right to boo, its just a product)

That's the cold way to look at it but the Patriots aren't an appliance to me.

mosslost · Dec 30, 2011

PatsSB42 said:
That's the cold way to look at it but the Patriots aren't an appliance to me.

well obviously, they are a way more complicated product than an appliance. A movie is more complicated product then an appliance, an NFL team or the league in general is a far more complicated product than a movie.

The bottom line is for me is I don't see any problem whatsoever with booing. A ticket price is more than most people earn in a day or two, and if the team does something you don't like you can boo. They are not pop warner. They make millions. Sometimes you are booing the play calling, or you are just fustrated or whatever. The other thing IMO is it is kind of a Boston/New York/Northest type of thing. In some ways I have tremendous respect for a Bostobn croud booing the snot out of a team that has been as much of a powerhouse as the Pats, because they stunk it up one day.

mosslost · Dec 30, 2011

Tunescribe said:
The problem lies in accurately assessing what constitutes poor effort. Poor results don't always mean poor effort, and that's where understanding the game itself comes into play. Most fans don't know enough to make that distinction especially at the professional level.

You are definately right about this point. Very good point. However, many pundits this week did seem to feel that the team came out flat, and sort of not ready. DId you get that sense when you watched? I know that I sort of did, and was very surprised given how important the game was. Your point is very valid though. I in fact have no idea at any point if someone else is giving max effort. I think a coach could tell, who watches them in practice, and understands the game, if a player is not trying. And I would expect lack of effort would be a very, very bad thing for a player under our coach. My eyeball test made me feel like they came into that game asleep, but what do I know really. I admit it. I was just pissed because we didn't even have number 2 definately yet..

RodThePat · Dec 30, 2011

Tunescribe said:
The problem lies in accurately assessing what constitutes poor effort. Poor results don't always mean poor effort, and that's where understanding the game itself comes into play. Most fans don't know enough to make that distinction especially at the professional level.

They had 6 punts, three 3-and-outs and a missed FG in the first half, being thoroughly dominated by a vastly inferior opponent. Despite those horrendous results you are of the opinion that booing would only be justified if the fans could accurately assess a lack of effort by the players?

It doesn't matter if the poor results are the product of lack of effort or lack of execution. This team has had it's share of problems this year and has been one and done in the postseason in 2009 and 2010. They were three weeks away from their first playoff game and put up a stinker against a team they should dominate. Fans were concerned and displeased. Is that such an outrageous reaction?

Joker · Dec 30, 2011

RodThePat said:
They had 6 punts, three 3-and-outs and a missed FG in the first half, being thoroughly dominated by a vastly inferior opponent. Despite those horrendous results you are of the opinion that booing would only be justified if the fans could accurately assess a lack of effort by the players?

It doesn't matter if the poor results are the product of lack of effort or lack of execution. This team has had it's share of problems this year and has been one and done in the postseason in 2009 and 2010. They were three weeks away from their first playoff game and put up a stinker against a team they should dominate. Fans were concerned and displeased. Is that such an outrageous reaction?

no...that isn't outrageous...what IS outrageous is to immediately post how disappointed you were after the first half, SAY ZERO about how well the Pats played in the second half, SAY NOTHING about the FACT that THEY WON ...and a week later, still post these friggin' crybaby bleatings about your friggin' right to boo ...now continue..bring up the last two playoffs and drag us all through THAT mudhole...this should be real enjoyable.

MoLewisrocks · Dec 30, 2011

Seanzayyy said:
Booing = punishment.

Cheering = positive reinforcement.

It's classical conditioning. Positive reinforcement is a better method to use.

Sure, fans can boo if they want. It's their money, I suppose. But booing most likely demoralizes the players where cheering on a positive play would motivate them to continue to get those cheers.

Fan = supporter

Fan = consumer

That's the conundrum. Too many Patsfans these days see themselves as consumers. They should file a complaint with the AG when this team loses or even trails in a game because that isn't what they expected when they purchased the product...

brdmaverick · Dec 30, 2011

Joker said:
no...that isn't outrageous...what IS outrageous is to immediately post how disappointed you were after the first half, SAY ZERO about how well the Pats played in the second half, SAY NOTHING about the FACT that THEY WON ...and a week later, still post these friggin' crybaby bleatings about your friggin' right to boo ...now continue..bring up the last two playoffs and drag us all through THAT mudhole...this should be real enjoyable.

Perhaps I'm missing some background on what triggered this post, but this thread originated on whether or not it is "right" or "classy" to "boo". The second half hasn't come up for discussion because I think that we can all agree that their second half play did not warrant any 'boo's'. The team DID perform extremely well in the second half, and rightly got many cheers.

Joker · Dec 30, 2011

fine...why don't YOU thrill me with more "the first half was terrible LAST week and I will never get over it...until something else rears it's ugly little head and I can go beserk for another week crying and gnashing my teeth over how horrible it is to be 12-3 going on 13-3"

torch this stupid over the top chicken little thread

brdmaverick · Dec 30, 2011

The bottom line is that football is an emotional game.

The footbal field has been known to cause a lot of blood, sweat, and tears amongst the players. It is a physical and psychological battle that triggers a lot of emotions.

To a lesser degree, this emotion also triggers to each team's fan base. While our livlidhoods are not tied as closely to the game as the players and coaches, for all of us in this forum we ARE EMOTIONALLY INVESTED IN THIS TEAM. When the Pat's lose, I'm sure all of us in this forum cringe when a significant other or friend says "Relax, it's just a game." For my fellow Pats fans on this forum, we all know that it's not 'just a game.' It's much more than that. We follow the team closely, buy the merchandise, go to training camp, watch the draft, and hope that our devotion pays us back with good results on the field.

When Brady lashes out at an offensive coordinator or at a wide receiver for running a bad route, should Belichick calm him down by saying "Relax, Brady. We are 12-3, you should not yell at him." We can't overlook at this is an emotional game, and that applies to the fan base as well. The fan's boo-ing poor play is simply a gesture of their own frustration, much like Brady or Belichick yelling at a player. This is the fan's way of saying "C'mon guys, get your act together."

I won't make the argument that boo-ing motivates players. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. But I imagine it is mostly out of pure frustration at that moment. Football is emotions, we are human, and the boo-ing is going to happen.

IllegalContact · Dec 30, 2011

Tunescribe said:
I'm willing to wager that most of the folks here who staunchly defend booing as a performance motivator never played football (or other team sport) at the high school, college or higher level.

not so much a performance motivator as a message of underachievement. football has a tendency to be booed after several 3 and out if your team is down.

Tunescribe · Dec 30, 2011

RodThePat said:
They had 6 punts, three 3-and-outs and a missed FG in the first half, being thoroughly dominated by a vastly inferior opponent. Despite those horrendous results you are of the opinion that booing would only be justified if the fans could accurately assess a lack of effort by the players?

Yup. Which just goes to show how ignorantly stupid booing your own team is in general.

RodThePat said:
It doesn't matter if the poor results are the product of lack of effort or lack of execution. This team has had it's share of problems this year and has been one and done in the postseason in 2009 and 2010. They were three weeks away from their first playoff game and put up a stinker against a team they should dominate. Fans were concerned and displeased. Is that such an outrageous reaction?

All indications up until and including last week's game were that the Dolphins definitely were not a "vastly inferior opponent" on either side of the ball. Far from it. They had won five of seven coming in and were playing very well. The fact the Pats struggled against a suddenly strong division foe should not have surprised anyone, especially with sudden injury problems on the offensive line and continued juggling of the defensive backfield. Lots of bad matchups for the Pats in that game, scheme-wise as well as personnel-wise. So your presumptions are incorrect.

IllegalContact · Dec 30, 2011

MoLewisrocks said:
Fan = supporter

Fan = consumer

That's the conundrum. Too many Patsfans these days see themselves as consumers. They should file a complaint with the AG when this team loses or even trails in a game because that isn't what they expected when they purchased the product...

still pretty much the same thing.....whether you are a supporter or a consumer, you express yourself when your team is the better team, your team is losing, and your team is playing uninspired.

you make it sound like we're in a liberal grade school where we can no longer correct papers in red......we have to support tommy and encourage him so he doesn't get down after several 3 and outs while the opponents offense is tearing the defense a new one. we would not want to make them sad and cry.

FirstAndGoal · Dec 30, 2011

PatsSB42 said:
It's your money and and as is your seat for sure. Knock yourself out and boo as loud as as long as you want. One could look at it that way and technically would be correct. Personally I don't look at my seats that I paid for as as strict customer demanding satisfaction with a product situation. The Patriots are not appliances that I bought and get tossed in the garbage or returned to the manufacturer with my hands ringing, hollering at the customer service rep about my displeasure.

No I'm not just a paying for my seat customer, but a fan of my team. A fan through thick and thin that suffers the pain of loss right along with players that lost. We win and lose together for the most part. Does that mean that there aren't times when boo's can be understandable? No, of course not. But I wish we could lose this, "they're my seats, I'm the customer and the customer is always right, nobody's gonna tell ME what to do or you can stuff it!" attitude.

I would say that most season fan ticket holders are there through thick and thin and that's why they have seats no? It was pretty hard getting seats if you tried after 01. That said, if the people there aren't "true fans" then who sold them the seats.... right, the "true fans". Either way, the people at the game are making sure that the majority of people at home can watch the game and anyone on this thread that isn't a season ticket holder and is talking about how wrong it is, is just kidding themselves because they're watching the game because those "consumers" are shelling out the money for the game and they're just enjoying what the "consumers" have provided.

Also, being a fan does not mean that you sit through thick and thin and enjoy the show. Was it fun when the Patriots were 1 - 15? Was it fun when Rod Rust was coaching? Did you sit in the stands and say "go Rod Rust, I know you'll win the next one"? Or did your fandom waver and did you want him out of town? He was part of the team. Did you cheer for his return too or did you cringe at the thought and express your fustration to your friends? Did you cheer for Ken Simms lack of effort or the turnstile Chung? Fans may be spoiled in NE but some of them think they're the authorities when it comes to what a good fan is.

Nothing like a fan telling another fan that they aren't a good enough fan for the team.

brdmaverick · Dec 30, 2011

Joker said:
fine...why don't YOU thrill me with more "the first half was terrible LAST week and I will never get over it...until something else rears it's ugly little head and I can go beserk for another week crying and gnashing my teeth over how horrible it is to be 12-3 going on 13-3"

torch this stupid over the top chicken little thread

Not sure why you must be aggressive. I think we can all agree that the first half was terrible, whether it's injuries, lack of effort, and bad execution, the first half WAS terrible. The second half certainly made up for it and put a lot of fans at ease, but would it be entirely wrong to say that the first half was still 'concerning'?

As far as 'crying and going beserk', I merely was just responding to this thread.

Booing a 12-3 home team for going 3 and out: No Class

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