Are you getting nervous about Devin McCourty?

MaineMan · Dec 25, 2011

Seems to me that McCourty was able to get away with playing very aggressively in 2010 out of mostly zone coverage against both the run and the pass because he almost always ended up with safety help over the top. I'm not talking about "double-coverage", but about a safety correctly reading the route pattern and being able to get over in time.

This season, it seems like when McCourty is getting burned, it's often in M2M and there's very rarely another DB within 10-15 yards - and the cavalry often doesn't arrive until McCourty has already caught up and made a solo tackle. Meanwhile, I rarely seem to see Arrington covering without another player nearby.

Maybe this is partly by design, shifting safeties more toward Arrington's side, or maybe just poor route-reads by the safeties. I mean, when Ihedigbo is the starting "coverage" safety and his backup is Slater, mis-reads/missteps from the safety position probably should be considered as at least a remote possibility (and I sure hope that Chung can get back on the field RSN).

Anyway, Butler, in 2009, allowed (IIRC) six TDs even though he DID have safety help.

BTW - wrt McCourty/Butler issues being a coaching problem - if that's the source, how does one explain the continued improvement by UDFA/special-teamer Arrington?

Lastly, I believe that eight of McCourty's 11 PDs have come in the last couple games, so perhaps there HAS been some recent improvement in his play.

randomk1 · Dec 25, 2011

Can somebody point me towards more advanced stats on McCourty? Like passes attempted/completed/yards/passes defended/tds allowed. If such a page even exists.

It feels like teams are constantly targeting him and generally have success.

TriplecHamp · Dec 25, 2011

randomk1 said:
Can somebody point me towards more advanced stats on McCourty? Like passes attempted/completed/yards/passes defended/tds allowed. If such a page even exists.

It feels like teams are constantly targeting him and generally have success.

Targets: Arrington's got them covered - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

would like to see an updated version but QB's had almost a 120.0 rating throwing against him. I don't think that number has gotten any lower.

Modest · Dec 25, 2011

BaltimorePatsFan said:
Yeah he had an awesome rookie season, yada yada.

Well guess what, guys like Eugene Wilson and Nick Kaczur all looked like future Pro Bowler too during their rookie seasons. McCourty is toast. Just cut him when the season's over and draft another 1st round CB.

Seriously? Seriously?

alvinnf · Dec 25, 2011

MaineMan said:
Seems to me that McCourty was able to get away with playing very aggressively in 2010 out of mostly zone coverage against both the run and the pass because he almost always ended up with safety help over the top. I'm not talking about "double-coverage", but about a safety correctly reading the route pattern and being able to get over in time.

This season, it seems like when McCourty is getting burned, it's often in M2M and there's very rarely another DB within 10-15 yards - and the cavalry often doesn't arrive until McCourty has already caught up and made a solo tackle. Meanwhile, I rarely seem to see Arrington covering without another player nearby.

Maybe this is partly by design, shifting safeties more toward Arrington's side, or maybe just poor route-reads by the safeties. I mean, when Ihedigbo is the starting "coverage" safety and his backup is Slater, mis-reads/missteps from the safety position probably should be considered as at least a remote possibility (and I sure hope that Chung can get back on the field RSN).

Anyway, Butler, in 2009, allowed (IIRC) six TDs even though he DID have safety help.

BTW - wrt McCourty/Butler issues being a coaching problem - if that's the source, how does one explain the continued improvement by UDFA/special-teamer Arrington?

Lastly, I believe that eight of McCourty's 11 PDs have come in the last couple games, so perhaps there HAS been some recent improvement in his play.

We got Bingo. They have put more on him due to the revolving door at safety. He hasn't looked great this year, but he is one player who should get an immediate boost form Chung's return. Well if he returns?

Urgent · Dec 25, 2011

McCourty does not seem to be locating the ball at all this year.

He had a great rookie season and performed well.

This season, he is consistently beaten by most receivers. He seldom seems to be aware of where the ball is. The performance was evident well before the injury - we remember the issue with big receivers in the first two games.

Could it be peripheral vision? Some other perception issue? That doesn't explain the loss of speed, unless he is struggling to understand what the receiver is about to do.

I'm not ready to release him at all, and hope that whatever the issue is he can work on it in the offseason. At the same time, I don't expect to see the performance he displayed his rookie season again. And hope that Dowling can make it through training camp and the season.

jbb9s · Dec 25, 2011

PatsFan2 said:
McCourty defends the the other Teams best WR.

I'm not claiming to watch game film and study this stuff, but the patriots have been one of the nfl's only teams to play a RCB / LCB position as opposed to #1 /#2. So in other words, it's the offensive coordinators decision who Devin and Kyle are covering.

Not sure why Patricia and BB do this. It didn't work out so well when Hobbs covered Plexico instead of Asante ( just one example)

NYCPatsFan · Dec 25, 2011

I thought his play drew the ire of many even before he got hurt. In fact, wasnt there some theory - in the beginning of the season - that opposing teams seemed to have spotted some weakness in him and hence targeting him frequently?

RodThePat · Dec 25, 2011

NYCPatsFan said:
I thought his play drew the ire of many even before he got hurt. In fact, wasnt there some theory - in the beginning of the season - that opposing teams seemed to have spotted some weakness in him and hence targeting him frequently?

His main weakness right now are double moves. 80% of the time you see him trailing the receiver on a big completion, he got duped on on a double move. The big play to Marshall on Miami's last drive was a prime example. When they got Bill mic'd up for the Colts game you could clearly hear him muttering "double move...yep, double move.." as McCourty got burnt for a big gain. It seems like the coaching staff is aware of this issue and yet McCourty is struggling to correct it during the games.

NYCPatsFan · Dec 25, 2011

RodThePat said:
His main weakness right now are double moves. 80% of the time you see him trailing the receiver on a big completion, he got duped on on a double move. The big play to Marshall on Miami's last drive was a prime example. When they got Bill mic'd up for the Colts game you could clearly hear him muttering "double move...yep, double move.." as McCourty got burnt for a big gain. It seems like the coaching staff is aware of this issue and yet McCourty is struggling to correct it during the games.

Thanks.

Interesting that BB read that even though he is watching from the side. Or maybe that read isn't clearly visible from where the CB is. :confused2:

Brarrell · Dec 25, 2011

I think many times it's just dumb situational football. In the Washington game a 3 & 18 instead of letting Gaffney catch the ball at 7 yards and then tackle him he felt the need to grab his arm pass interference auto 1st down. Yesterday same thing 3 & 18 the ball is over thrown he grabs the arm of the reciever and pass interference is called, dumb. At the end of the game yesterday an all out blitz is called as an ex db your main job is to not let anyone get behind you give up the 15 yd out or in pattern but he goes for the fake. He has just played terrible this year and I can't see him being a captain next year.

cstjohn17 · Dec 25, 2011

He hs to grow his game, awesome first year but something stood out to teams. The pre-season game against Detriot they went right after him. The NFL is a monkey-see, monkey-do league, once Detriot toased him it became open season. Pass against McCourty until he can prove that he can cover.

Honestly I hope he is battling some sort of injury, he is getting beat on some basic patterns. His foot speed is almost as bad as his ability to track the ball.

I think he will get it back together and me pretty good, unfortunately I am not sure if this will happen until the 2012 season.

F0nSY · Dec 25, 2011

Re: Mccourty..are you getting nervous?

botown said:
looks like a sophomore slump. I'm with you in being nervous about this kid. Hope he gets it together fast.

end of the thread

EJ Blitz · Dec 26, 2011

it's not only McCourty though, is there a reason why he's getting no help over the top? Maybe we shouldn't have gotten rid of guys who were productive last year thinking we'd just get by.

RobAllan · Dec 26, 2011

I'm not nervous unless he plays this way next season. I think switching to man coverage where the responsibility is all his without the benefit of a real training camp this year may be the problem.

Or he could suck at man.

Too early to tell, from my POV

ausbacker · Dec 26, 2011

cstjohn17 said:
He hs to grow his game, awesome first year but something stood out to teams. The pre-season game against Detriot they went right after him. The NFL is a monkey-see, monkey-do league, once Detriot toased him it became open season. Pass against McCourty until he can prove that he can cover.

Honestly I hope he is battling some sort of injury, he is getting beat on some basic patterns. His foot speed is almost as bad as his ability to track the ball.

I think he will get it back together and me pretty good, unfortunately I am not sure if this will happen until the 2012 season.

Here's McCourty's CBS draft profile with man coverage commentary provided for your perusal. Personally, I think he's in a sophomore slump and nothing else.

Devin McCourty, CB

Man Coverage: Can press or play off effectively. Has fluid hips, transitions smoothly and stays low and is quick in his backpedal. Sticks to receivers on their routes, showing excellent change of direction. Plays more physically than you would expect for his size, using his hands to jam on the line and maintain contact downfield. Larger receivers will use their size to shield him from slants and crossing patterns.

Ivan · Dec 26, 2011

He's had a bad season especially when compared to hiis rookie performance but i'm not worried because he's the kind of player who is going to do everything possible to make sure his performance returns to the level it should be at. he doesn't lack physical talent and he has a really good work ethic by all accounts, so it's not Wilson or Meriweather but more a typical CB off season where he should be able to rebound and be a really good player for them in the future.

Uncle Rico · Dec 26, 2011

I'm curious how some of the more veteran fans here feel McCourty's first two years compare to, say, Ty Law's.

Personally I feel like he compares pretty well. Pro Bowl rookie year. Definitely an off season this year; sophomore slump? Being taught different technique this year? No safety support? Injuries? I'm betting a combination of those somewhat significant factors.

And I'm not as scholarly about these things as some people here, but the whole deal with DBs not turning back to look at the ball just baffles me. I'm at work today and the guys on 98.5 were talking about it. A caller suggested it was intentional, the thought being you keep your eye on the receiver so he doesn't get away from you. Jermaine Wiggins said no, it's not like hockey where you play the body in that situation, you play the football. Have to agree there.

Ring 6 · Dec 26, 2011

supafly said:
Just to put it into perspective, Duane Starks started 6 games in 2005, while playing in 7 total.

He had twice as many passes defended that McCourty has in 10 games, with 10 starts.

In case you didn't remember, Starks will forever be known as the patsfans whipping boy at the position of CB.
--------------------

In 2004, rookie Randall Gay started in less games than McCourty this yr, and that was in Gay's rookie year.

He went on to defend twice as many passes, and have 2 INT's with 2 recovered fumbles and a touchdown; and everyone called him a joke...
--------------------

In 2009, Nate Jones started half the number of games that McCourty did this yr and went on to defend 3x the number of passes, all while having 2 INT's and 2 forced fumbles.
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In 2005, rookie Ellis Hobbs (the worst CB in the history of the team according to some/most) started in less games than McCourty this year, and promptly recorded 12 (TWELVE) defended passes (4x the number of McCourty), with 3 INT's and 2 forced fumbles. He also averaged almost 25 yards a kickoff return.

Should I keep going????

Not unless someone has decided that the way to judge corner play is to look into a stat book and count passes defensed.

Joker · Dec 26, 2011

you've seen this before Andy...some of these fans NEED a whipping boy...it's just like the Maroney years...the Pats could win 48-7 and you'd still get this vocal minority posting thread after thread about why Maroney $ucked...it's just the nature of some fans to ALWAYS harp on negatives, expecting 100% perfection out of an enterprise employing HUMANS....it's never going to change, so don't let it change you.

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