Is the assertion that Belichick's drafts have been poor accurate?

I liked brooks reed enough to take him at 28 or 33.....I liked Jj watt, but understnand given where he was draft. I agreed with the needntomtake an OL, and I liked solder for the pats more than carimi or castonzo.

I understand the RB selections...OK with mallett, too.....neither kindle nor Hughes were as popular as barwin as he reminded so many of vrable

I'm not even complaining about the drafting of Cunningham.....I could see it.

Its the endless revolving door in the secondary and the fact that some of those wasted picks could have been used for good value on obvious needs. Like I said, I have not taken random people and thrown them out there for argument sake.

Bequette would be a later pick. none of these guys would be in round 1, and like I said, it's early.

I am hoping for a return to the 3-4.....I fear that 2 of the early picks will again be used on secondary. The pats need to sign some vets back there instead as that is what has helped in the past.

SteveKiner said:

LOL.......given I have only been here since 2010, that's not possible......

Can't argue with that. How about last year. Any "binky you want to share with us? Where you can show your pre draft acumen?

Barwin was the most popular pre draft choice for the pats for most people. even many of the website mocks had Barwin going to the pats....it made a ton of sense at the time and did not require any imagination.

Sergio Kindle and Jerry Hughes were very popular pre draft choices for the pats for most people. even many of the website mocks had Kindle/Hughes going to the pats....it made a ton of sense at the time and did not require any imagination. How did they work out?

this year? I like Jake Bequette, Marvin McNutt, Billy Winn......but its early, and I haven't really started to look
You like Bequette in what round? Obviously you saw him against SC. Any concern about his injuries? You are not really looking at him early are you? Maybe 3rd? Where do you see McNutt going? 2nd? Has size, does he have the speed? Winn? Again what round? I assume you expect a return to the 3-4 since that is where he projects. Do you think the Pats use an early pick on a 3-4 run stopping DE?

I realize it's early and you haven't started to look. Kiper's guide isn't out yet. That's the difference between guys like you and real scouts/Personnel men. You sit back and critique them and say "I would have taken Connor Barwin, everyone knew he was great". When all you can really do is regurgitate something you read in a draft guide. The guys you are bashing could give you reams of info today on your "binkies". And they still only get 1/2 right (when they are lucky) You regurgitate someone else work and the person you get your info from isn't good enough to work an NFL team. If they were good at evaluating players, they would be doing that for pay. Not selling draft guides to boobs like you. So you can act like you know something about NFL football talent evaluation.

Let's write you down for Winn in the 1st. McNutt in the 2nd and Bequette in the 3rd and see how you do.

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Wrong!!!
TFB carrying team to 14-2 does not justify the poor drafting that constitue the worst defense in the league.

TFB has been short-changed 2 superbowls by this porous defense.

BB has been embrassed on defense side since 2006 affccg when Manning hosed him for 4 TD in last 5 positions. BB's defense stopping someone is a more of a fluke now.

Coach42 said:

Really isn't the only relevant point that every important player on this team that has contributed to a 25-6 record over the last two seasons has been drafted by BB? Could he have done better? Sure, but I'm not sure what pointing out that BB isn't the best draft man in the NFL proves. Really, who gives a sh*t if he wins with it? I'll take the Coach/GM leadership of BB over any other combo in the league.

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strongside said:

(7) solid starters, above average at their position: Jerod Mayo, Devin McCourty, Rob Gronkowski, Aaron Hernandez, Sebastian Vollmer, Patrick Chung, Stephan Gostkowski, Zoltan Mesko
(4) other starters, role players and backups still on team: Ron Brace, Jermaine Cunningham, Brandon Spikes, Taylor Price
(4) players who contributed while here but are no longer on team: Brandon Meriweather, Laurence Maroney, Jake Ingram, Jonathan Wilhite
(11) 1st to 4th round busts: never made as much impact with team as was expected or hoped for: Darius Butler, Brandon Tate, Tyrone McKenzie, Rich Ohrnberger, Terrance Wheatley, Shawn Crable, Kevin O’Connell, Kareem Bown, Chad Jackson, David Thomas, Garrett Mills
(4) good late round values: Matthew Slater, Julian Edelman, Brandon Deaderick, Myron Pryor

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That's 19 who contributed and 11 who did not. Not bad.

Belichick's confounded by his own success. He's smart enough that we never expect anything less than perfection from him.

goheels22002 said:

That's 19 who contributed and 11 who did not. Not bad.

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You also can't discount the UDFA who have been contributors like Hoyer, Guyton, Fletcher, Love, etc, and those are just the guys who are still on the roster.

IllegalContact said:

I liked brooks reed enough to take him at 28 or 33.....I liked Jj watt, but understnand given where he was draft. I agreed with the needntomtake an OL, and I liked solder for the pats more than carimi or castonzo.

I understand the RB selections...OK with mallett, too.....neither kindle nor Hughes were as popular as barwin as he reminded so many of vrable

I'm not even complaining about the drafting of Cunningham.....I could see it.

Its the endless revolving door in the secondary and the fact that some of those wasted picks could have been used for good value on obvious needs. Like I said, I have not taken random people and thrown them out there for argument sake.

Bequette would be a later pick. none of these guys would be in round 1, and like I said, it's early.

I am hoping for a return to the 3-4.....I fear that 2 of the early picks will again be used on secondary. The pats need to sign some vets back there instead as that is what has helped in the past.

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Watt was my first choice, but given where he was picked, he wasn't realistic. Kerrrigan was another binky and even though he was taken ahead of us, he was withing reach if the Pats really wanted him it was emminently doable.

But, as good a season as Kerrigan has had, I would opine that Solder has been much more of an impact player for the Pats than he would have been for us. And as good as Solder has looked, he is llikely to be more impactful over the long haul as well.

I would think this stupidity would have stopped by now...

I guess Rob Gronkowski is considered an "okay" pick by now, having set the record for touchdowns by a tight end.

But if Belichick was smarter, he woulda got a tight end that did that in his first year, not his second.



There's a reason that even the crappiest NFL personnel men have jobs in the field, and fanboys on bulletin boards don't.

Patsfans draftnik types drive me batsh1t every year with this bullcrap. The fact is the Pats draft just fine, and guys in the league are often in awe of the Pats' operation.

Drafting not one, but two starting NFL QBs, one of them a legend, the other certainly in the top 1/3 at the position.... quite likely the best tight end in the game today... rosters full of capable NFL starters (not only on our own roster mind you...) by any measure the Pats are a quite good draft day team, thank you very much.

I suspect that deep down the urge to go all belligerent geek/jock about the subject is tied to the egos of the draftnik types. They know better than you, they know better than the Pats' war-room, and what's more, if you selectively cherry-pick their "greatest hits" they can prove it to you.

"So and so was there at 44 in 2006... and I KNEW IT! Proof positive that the Pats can't draft and never could... IF ONLY THEY'D LISTEN..."

Yeah okay, it's not fair, but they're NFL personnel guys and coaches. You pump gas down at the Sunoco and pull a couple shifts a week stacking produce at Pathmark.

Life sucks.

PFnV

LOL. I said it once and I'll say it again: BB is God awful at drafting at defense.

Sure I'll get roasted on this board, but this game is a reminder of the team BB drafted.

SyN65 said:

LOL. I said it once and I'll say it again: BB is God awful at drafting at defense.

Sure I'll get roasted on this board, but this game is a reminder of the team BB drafted.

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Because he totally planned for half of his starting defense to be hurt?

PatsFanInVa said:

I would think this stupidity would have stopped by now...

I guess Rob Gronkowski is considered an "okay" pick by now, having set the record for touchdowns by a tight end.

But if Belichick was smarter, he woulda got a tight end that did that in his first year, not his second.



There's a reason that even the crappiest NFL personnel men have jobs in the field, and fanboys on bulletin boards don't.

Patsfans draftnik types drive me batsh1t every year with this bullcrap. The fact is the Pats draft just fine, and guys in the league are often in awe of the Pats' operation.

Drafting not one, but two starting NFL QBs, one of them a legend, the other certainly in the top 1/3 at the position.... quite likely the best tight end in the game today... rosters full of capable NFL starters (not only on our own roster mind you...) by any measure the Pats are a quite good draft day team, thank you very much.

I suspect that deep down the urge to go all belligerent geek/jock about the subject is tied to the egos of the draftnik types. They know better than you, they know better than the Pats' war-room, and what's more, if you selectively cherry-pick their "greatest hits" they can prove it to you.

"So and so was there at 44 in 2006... and I KNEW IT! Proof positive that the Pats can't draft and never could... IF ONLY THEY'D LISTEN..."

Yeah okay, it's not fair, but they're NFL personnel guys and coaches. You pump gas down at the Sunoco and pull a couple shifts a week stacking produce at Pathmark.

Life sucks.

PFnV

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Bitter much?

Nobody here thinks they can do a better job overall than BB (I don't think ). The board exists for speculation and criticism. Most people are just bitter that we haven't won another SB since '04. With Brady and Belichick at the helm, it's almost expected It's hard to watch bozos like Roethlesburger and Tomlin, or Manning/Dungy Manning/Coughlin holding the trophy.

My main frustration is that the 'defensive overhaul' we hear about every year seems to be going in the wrong direction.

JMarr said:

Most people are just bitter that we haven't won another SB since '04. With Brady and Belichick at the helm, it's almost expected It's hard to watch bozos like Roethlesburger and Tomlin, or Manning/Dungy Manning/Coughlin holding the trophy.

My main frustration is that the 'defensive overhaul' we hear about every year seems to be going in the wrong direction.

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[B]It's hard to watch bozos like Roethlesburger and Tomlin, or Manning/Dungy Manning/Coughlin holding the trophy[/B]

Sciz said:

Because he totally planned for half of his starting defense to be hurt?

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No, the irony is that the defense genius has been less than stellar at drafting defensive players. I think that's undeniable.

Take a look, for example, at Ras-I Dowling. The one knock on him that had some of us scratching our heads? His track record of not playing because of injuries.

History is past prologue as they say this season. A high second with first round talent. Why did the other teams pass? Just look at what's occurred.

And the author starts off with a straw man argument. Spending time in the subforum for the draft, few would argue as the author does that Belichick is horrible at drafting. That's simply a false statement.

What some of us have said is that the defense needs an upgrade, which we had ample opportunities to do last year. We took a pass. We drafted a player who can't make it through a season without being injured high in the second.

We have drafted a slew of players in the secondary that have not panned out. I still can't figure out why Darius Butler didn't.

It is what it is and I don't think it should be sugarcoated or pushed aside and an imaginary argument attacked that few if anyone is making.

SyN65 said:

LOL. I said it once and I'll say it again: BB is God awful at drafting at defense.

Sure I'll get roasted on this board, but this game is a reminder of the team BB drafted.

Click to expand...

Damn right, the Patriots suck, especially Belichik, just look at his record, he doesn't know what he's doing and their status as perennial losers proves that. If Kraft weren't so cheap he would fire him, instead we are stuck with this sorry assed franchise. Fortunately we have fans like you who are there to always point out how bad they are and who would do a much better job if only given the chance.

PatsFans.com Article said:

Is the assertion that Belichick's drafts have been poor accurate?
By: John Morgan

The masses are chanting that the Patriots are horrible at drafting, and Bill Belichick should be banned from the war room. Here's a rebuttal for all the negative nancies who have been so quick to declare that the sky is falling....

CLICK HERE TO READ THIS STORY​

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the problem with belichick is that he hasn't drafted well on defense. mayo is probably the best pick of the last couple years on D. Besides that, no one special on defense. Chung and McCourty are ok, not great.

offensively he's done really well. Vollmmer and Solder are great pick ups. And of course Gronk and Hernandez.

there are a few skilled positions that BB hasn't been very good - CB, WR and RB.

JMarr said:

Bitter much?

Nobody here thinks they can do a better job overall than BB (I don't think ). The board exists for speculation and criticism. Most people are just bitter that we haven't won another SB since '04. With Brady and Belichick at the helm, it's almost expected It's hard to watch bozos like Roethlesburger and Tomlin, or Manning/Dungy Manning/Coughlin holding the trophy.

My main frustration is that the 'defensive overhaul' we hear about every year seems to be going in the wrong direction.

Click to expand...

The people screaming about belichik's drafts cherrypikck to make their case because they can't make it if they don't, and they absolutely think they can do better and always tell us over and over who they should have taken an how their choices would have been the right ones, disregarding what they actually ended up with as well as other moves with picks that helped make them great. As for their success and the Lombardi the Patriots won 3 of 10 SB's in the first decade of the century and played in 4-10, it doesn't get better than that and only spoiled miserable fans who can't understand that you cannot win every year think otherwise.

Belichik isn't the problem, Patriot fans with ridiculous expectations are.

Ivan said:

The people screaming about belichik's drafts cherrypikck to make their case because they can't make it if they don't, and they absolutely think they can do better and always tell us over and over who they should have taken an how their choices would have been the right ones, disregarding what they actually ended up with as well as other moves with picks that helped make them great. As for their success and the Lombardi the Patriots won 3 of 10 SB's in the first decade of the century and played in 4-10, it doesn't get better than that and only spoiled miserable fans who can't understand that you cannot win every year think otherwise.

Belichik isn't the problem, Patriot fans with ridiculous expectations are.

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Are you in the drama club?

State said:

No, the irony is that the defense genius has been less than stellar at drafting defensive players. I think that's undeniable.

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I would agree.

Take a look, for example, at Ras-I Dowling. The one knock on him that had some of us scratching our heads? His track record of not playing because of injuries.

History is past prologue as they say this season. A high second with first round talent. Why did the other teams pass? Just look at what's occurred.

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I would agree, up to a point. Some players that slide for whatever reasons go on to have great careers; Randy Moss and Warren Sapp come to mind (yes, I know they were first round choices; referring to players that dropped), and it certainly looks like Gronk is in that category of a player that teams overreacted to in regards to concerns. Sometimes a drop is justified; other times it is not. I just don't think you can absolutely say teams should always pass on a player that has dropped.

And the author starts off with a straw man argument. Spending time in the subforum for the draft, few would argue as the author does that Belichick is horrible at drafting. That's simply a false statement.

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I'm confused by this statement on multiple levels. From the day the lockout ended, or at least from the day the first cut was made in training camp, the 'Belichick can't draft' has been by far the most discussed Patriot-related topic of the year, whether it be on message boards, on the radio, by fans or by the local mainstream sports media. In addition the author is responding to those that assert that Belichick can't draft by pointing out that their logic is flawed - which is exactly the opposite of what you say he is doing.

What some of us have said is that the defense needs an upgrade, which we had ample opportunities to do last year. We took a pass. We drafted a player who can't make it through a season without being injured high in the second.

We have drafted a slew of players in the secondary that have not panned out. I still can't figure out why Darius Butler didn't.

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Well said.

It is what it is and I don't think it should be sugarcoated or pushed aside and an imaginary argument attacked that few if anyone is making.

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Again, lots of people have been quite vociferous in their 'Belichick can't draft' opinions; the number of responses to this thread alone (and trust me, there have been plenty of others) should be a clue that it is a hot topic. Perhaps it seems out of place because you're insulated from that talk outside of New England, outside of the main forum, and away from New England sports talk radio? I would not characterize it as 'an imaginary attack', but it should be noted that the article was written eight weeks ago, before somebody for who knows what reason decided to revive the thread with a brief comment about Taylor Price.

Many of the members who complain about BB drafting will not be posting when the Patriots eventually end up with a losing or 500 record (log on after a loss and witness the train wreck). In the history of the NFL, I think only the 49er's have had a better winning percentage after winning a championship. Brady's home winning record is still going strong as is the Brady/BB duo record (which blew away the old record). To those who will say it's all Brady, I give you Matt Cassell (7th round). McCourty's ok and Dowling's a bust, yawn.

Ivan said:

The people screaming about belichik's drafts cherrypikck to make their case because they can't make it if they don't, and they absolutely think they can do better and always tell us over and over who they should have taken an how their choices would have been the right ones, disregarding what they actually ended up with as well as other moves with picks that helped make them great. As for their success and the Lombardi the Patriots won 3 of 10 SB's in the first decade of the century and played in 4-10, it doesn't get better than that and only spoiled miserable fans who can't understand that you cannot win every year think otherwise.

Belichik isn't the problem, Patriot fans with ridiculous expectations are.

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I'm sorry, but this is simply not true, as has been demonstrated time and again. Whether you choose to admit it, or to deny it, the fact is that Belichick has struggled drafting defensively since about 2006. You can rail against the people who point it out all you want, but it's not going to change the facts.

One pick I'm never going to understand is Jake Ingram.

WHO THE HELL DRAFTS A LONG SNAPPER????

Could've drafted Jason McCourty with that pick.