Alone atop the AFC at 11-3

mvrabel50 said:

You dont think that the amount of yards you let up has any indication on how good/bad your defense is? I understand that at the end of the game it's all about who scores more points, but yards will eventually lead to points.

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That's not true. The Pats are the 14th best team in points allowed and the 32nd second best team in yards allowed. The Packers are also 14th in points allowed and 31st in yards allowed. The Saints are 18th in points allowed and 24th in yards allowed.

What do all three teams have in common? They all have high powered offenses that get their teams big leads in the fourth quarter and they all give up a lot of garbage time yards when the game is virtually over. That is why there isn't a direct coorelation between yards and points on defense at least when it comes to teams with high powered offenses.

Rob0729 said:

If the good Giants show up, they will easily handle the Jets. The problem is that the Giants are too Jeckyl and Hyde. They play the Packers tough all the way and then beat the Cowboys and then get squashed by the Redskins the next week.

Both teams are wildly inconsistent. The Giants are at least have shown over the season that they can beat good teams at times. I hear that both Jake Ballard and Osi Umenyoria might not play this weekend. The Giants need at least Ballard to play. Ballard could eat apart the middle of the field because Revis will probably be on Cruz and Cromartie on Nicks. Or visa vera. The Jets can't cover TEs.

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The Giants got embarrassed last week and the New York press says Coughlin is livid. I think Coughlin has them focused for the Jets.

cusan said:

I am suprised that everyone said Jet's defense can not cover TE. then How did they contain our TEs in last year's playoff game?

it seems Jets always lifted their defense strength in the playoff, compared with the regular season games.

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THIS year's Jets
Many, including Rex commit the major fallacy thinking the 2010 team is the 2011 team. They aren't. Every team/season is different.

Last year's Jets had an excellent D. This year, it's good at best.

Last year's Jets had a better offense than this year's.

Rob0729 said:

That's not true. The Pats are the 14th best team in points allowed and the 32nd second best team in yards allowed. The Packers are also 14th in points allowed and 31st in yards allowed. The Saints are 18th in points allowed and 24th in yards allowed.

What do all three teams have in common? They all have high powered offenses that get their teams big leads in the fourth quarter and they all give up a lot of garbage time yards when the game is virtually over. That is why there isn't a direct coorelation between yards and points on defense at least when it comes to teams with high powered offenses.

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How can you say that isn't true... a team that doesn't let up any yards isn't going to get scored on a lot, a team that lets up a lot of yards (garbage time or not) will EVENTUALLY get scored on.

No correlation between yards and points??? How do you score points if you don't put up yards?

Don't get me wrong, i'm psyched that the pats have been playing good in the redzone and haven't let up that many points, but I'd feel a lot better if we could cut down on sub-par opponents from moving the ball as easily against us at times (not just in garbage time).

If we're going to win the SB, we're going to have to play a high powered offense. If we have a difficult time slowing down a sub-par team, how are we going to do anything against a GB or NO?

Take care of business against the Fins and Bills then:


The fear of the playoffs based off the last two years is scaring the crap out of Patriots nation, I understand that.

Two wins, at home, with Brady and BB, is all thats needed to get to the SB. Throw the past out the window, the pats chances are good.

mvrabel50 said:

How can you say that isn't true... a team that doesn't let up any yards isn't going to get scored on a lot, a team that lets up a lot of yards (garbage time or not) will EVENTUALLY get scored on.

No correlation between yards and points??? How do you score points if you don't put up yards?

Don't get me wrong, i'm psyched that the pats have been playing good in the redzone and haven't let up that many points, but I'd feel a lot better if we could cut down on sub-par opponents from moving the ball as easily against us at times (not just in garbage time).

If we're going to win the SB, we're going to have to play a high powered offense. If we have a difficult time slowing down a sub-par team, how are we going to do anything against a GB or NO?

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By your logic, there is no way the Pats and Packers aren't near the bottom in points allowed because points are tied to yards eventhough both are 14th in points allowed.

So you are saying that eventhough the Pats and Packers are dead last in yards allowed and in the top half of the league in points allowed, they are both really giving up the most amount of points in the league but they are not putting them on the score board because the league is cheating for those teams?

Again, I am saying in the case of high powered offenses, there isn't a direct corelation between yards and points. I showed you the top three offenses in the league as proof. For teams with lesser offenses, there might be a coorelation.

I also disagree that to win the Super Bowl, the Pats are going to have to play a high powered offense. They could end up playing the Jets, Baltimore, and 49ers to win a Super Bowl. None of them are high powered offenses. In fact, other than maybe the Steelers, there is no high powered offense in the AFC and the two best in the NFC have similiar defensive deficiencies as the Pats.

If yards and points were tied together, the Pats would either be one of the worst in points allowed or middle of the pack in yards allowed. The fact is that just like the other two top offensive teams in the league, they are at the bottom in terms of yards allowed and middle of the pack in terms of points allowed. So there are no coorelation between the two with high powered offenses.

I guess if a team played the Pats or Packers, they would EVENTUALLY score a ton of points in the 8th or 9th quarter of the game because they aren't in scoring more than most in most games. The fact of the matter is the Pats haven't allowed more 27 points in a game on defense this year and in many of the games that were scored over 20 points, the points came in garbage time to push them over 20 (Miami, Chargers, Colts, Broncos, Eagles).

NFL.com news: Are Packers best team in football? Not after Week 15


Joe Theismann just wrote the worst article I've ever seen. I actually can't believe how idiotic it is.

However, you need to understand one thing about how I put together my list: My power rankings are based upon where a team fits in the given week.

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If this bull*hit is true, which is ridiculous by itself, why are the Packers in sixth, and Ravens 5th. Shouldn't they be after SD and KC?

KC just beat the Packers and they are 23rd. Way to go Joe. Show 'em how to make sense.

He's an old man trying to make noise, who has no ideia what he says. I mean, does he even think about what he says?

BradyMossWelker said:

NFL.com news: Are Packers best team in football? Not after Week 15


Joe Theismann just wrote the worst article I've ever seen. I actually can't believe how idiotic it is.





If this bull*hit is true, which is ridiculous by itself, why are the Packers in sixth, and Ravens 5th. Shouldn't they be after SD and KC?

KC just beat the Packers and they are 23rd. Way to go Joe. Show 'em how to make sense.

He's an old man trying to make noise, who has no ideia what he says. I mean, does he even think about what he says?

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ESPN and Sportsline *Pete Pisco is still on their Aaron Rodgers Ball washing.

PatsFan2 said:

ESPN and Sportsline *Pete Pisco is still on their Aaron Rodgers Ball washing.

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This dude swithced over his allegiance from Peyton this year ***h0le

MP-Logick said:

Not necessarily. Whoever gets the sixth seed is plenty capable of beating a Houston team with TJ Yates that just got stomped at home by Carolina.

If that happens, then we'd play the sixth seed.

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Good point. I forgot that these aren't tennis-bracket-style fixed seedings.

It also means that's there's no way the Jets can do much this post-season w/o yet again playing the Pats.

(Ditto the Bungles, of course.)

Las two years the pats have lost AT HOME. So what good does home field do for them? Maybe they won't lose by as much as on the road?

I hope they turn it around, I do, but I'm not going to get excited about home field right now. I thought they'd lose at Pittsburgh the year they lost on Halloween so badly there, but they won and won the SB. So...who knows.

I think the Jets would be easier to beat than the Chargers or even Chiefs but....the thought of losing two years in a row to them is unthinkable.

mvrabel50 said:

How can you say that isn't true... a team that doesn't let up any yards isn't going to get scored on a lot, a team that lets up a lot of yards (garbage time or not) will EVENTUALLY get scored on.

No correlation between yards and points??? How do you score points if you don't put up yards?

Don't get me wrong, i'm psyched that the pats have been playing good in the redzone and haven't let up that many points, but I'd feel a lot better if we could cut down on sub-par opponents from moving the ball as easily against us at times (not just in garbage time).

If we're going to win the SB, we're going to have to play a high powered offense. If we have a difficult time slowing down a sub-par team, how are we going to do anything against a GB or NO?

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Yards matter, and I've shown it before. However, like all team stats (including points), taking it in a vacuum is never going to show the whole picture.

Rob0729 said:

By your logic, there is no way the Pats and Packers aren't near the bottom in points allowed because points are tied to yards eventhough both are 14th in points allowed.

So you are saying that eventhough the Pats and Packers are dead last in yards allowed and in the top half of the league in points allowed, they are both really giving up the most amount of points in the league but they are not putting them on the score board because the league is cheating for those teams?

Again, I am saying in the case of high powered offenses, there isn't a direct corelation between yards and points. I showed you the top three offenses in the league as proof. For teams with lesser offenses, there might be a coorelation.

I also disagree that to win the Super Bowl, the Pats are going to have to play a high powered offense. They could end up playing the Jets, Baltimore, and 49ers to win a Super Bowl. None of them are high powered offenses. In fact, other than maybe the Steelers, there is no high powered offense in the AFC and the two best in the NFC have similiar defensive deficiencies as the Pats.

If yards and points were tied together, the Pats would either be one of the worst in points allowed or middle of the pack in yards allowed. The fact is that just like the other two top offensive teams in the league, they are at the bottom in terms of yards allowed and middle of the pack in terms of points allowed. So there are no coorelation between the two with high powered offenses.

I guess if a team played the Pats or Packers, they would EVENTUALLY score a ton of points in the 8th or 9th quarter of the game because they aren't in scoring more than most in most games. The fact of the matter is the Pats haven't allowed more 27 points in a game on defense this year and in many of the games that were scored over 20 points, the points came in garbage time to push them over 20 (Miami, Chargers, Colts, Broncos, Eagles).

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By your logic, there is no way the Pats and Packers aren't near the bottom in points allowed because points are tied to yards eventhough both are 14th in points allowed.

Not my logic at all... you aren't getting my point. All I'm saying is that a team that lets up a lot of yards will give their opponent a greater chance of scoring more points than a team that doesn't allow as many yards. If you want to pull stats, look at BAL, SF, & PIT.


You're making it seem like the Pats have always played great defense up until the 4th quarter garbage time when they let up all their points/ yards... NOT THE CASE. If anything an offenses' time of possession will help their defenses numbers (high powered or not).

So you are saying that eventhough the Pats and Packers are dead last in yards allowed and in the top half of the league in points allowed, they are both really giving up the most amount of points in the league but they are not putting them on the score board because the league is cheating for those teams?

Not saying that at all. I said it before very clearly, i would feel better if the pats defense wasn't allowing below average teams from moving the ball as easily as they have at times. Pull up as many stats of offenses and defenses as you want but I'm just saying VERY SIMPLY that more yards allowed will eventually lead to more scoring opportunities and more scoring opportunites will eventually lead to more points.

NYG 8th in offensive yards, 28th in defensive yards, 28th in defensive points. Your high powered offense arguement doesn't work there.

You're right that the Pats aren't guaranteed to play a NO or GB in the sb, but i think one those two teams will be there. Again looking at things way to literally.

ivanvamp said:

True. But beating them and knocking them out would be the sweetest kind of victory.

Look, the Pats are going to have to beat two very tough teams in order to get to the Super Bowl. The goal ought to be to have those games be in Foxboro. If they're the #1 seed, I'll take my chances with whomever they have to play.

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In particular:

The Pats' first playoff game will be against a team that has just won a playoff game the previous week.

Deus Irae said:

Yards matter, and I've shown it before. However, like all team stats (including points), taking it in a vacuum is never going to show the whole picture.

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Completely agree with you on that.

mvrabel50 said:

By your logic, there is no way the Pats and Packers aren't near the bottom in points allowed because points are tied to yards eventhough both are 14th in points allowed.

Not my logic at all... you aren't getting my point. All I'm saying is that a team that lets up a lot of yards will give their opponent a greater chance of scoring more points than a team that doesn't allow as many yards. If you want to pull stats, look at BAL, SF, & PIT.


You're making it seem like the Pats have always played great defense up until the 4th quarter garbage time when they let up all their points/ yards... NOT THE CASE. If anything an offenses' time of possession will help their defenses numbers (high powered or not).

So you are saying that eventhough the Pats and Packers are dead last in yards allowed and in the top half of the league in points allowed, they are both really giving up the most amount of points in the league but they are not putting them on the score board because the league is cheating for those teams?

Not saying that at all. I said it before very clearly, i would feel better if the pats defense wasn't allowing below average teams from moving the ball as easily as they have at times. Pull up as many stats of offenses and defenses as you want but I'm just saying VERY SIMPLY that more yards allowed will eventually lead to more scoring opportunities and more scoring opportunites will eventually lead to more points.

NYG 8th in offensive yards, 28th in defensive yards, 28th in defensive points. Your high powered offense arguement doesn't work there.

You're right that the Pats aren't guaranteed to play a NO or GB in the sb, but i think one those two teams will be there. Again looking at things way to literally.

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It is you not getting my point. If the Pats are up by 21 points in the fourth, they might play softer defense in the open field allowing the opposing team to accumulate a lot of garbage time yards that yield very few points. If the Pats start to score quickly and often, that will give the opposing team far more possession than a team that needs 5-7 minutes to score. With more possessions, the opposing team will get more yards just because they have the ball 10 times in a game opposed to 7 times against another team. There is far more that goes into why teams like the Pats and Packers have given up so many yards and yielded so few points relatively.

Teams without high powered offenses, the points allowed and yards allowed are more closely tied because they are not protecting three score leads consistently in the fourth and/or taking significant amount of time off the clock on offense because they cannot move the ball down the field as efficiently as a team like the Pats or Packers.

Again, there is a reason why there is little coorelation between yards and points when it comes to teams like the Pats and the Packers. I would bet that at least 20-40% of the yards allowed by the Pats were in garbage time when the Pats went to a more of a prevent defense and allowed the opposing team to drive slowly down the field to eat up clock time.

One last time, the Pats have not allowed more than 27 points on defense in a single game this year. If they eventually would have given up points with all these yards, the Pats would have had a game or two where they gave up 30 plus points on defense.

Teams that give up lots of yards are typically defending long fields.

blackglass3 said:

Call me a Nervous Nelly all you want, but weren't we all saying "Gimme the Jets again in Foxboro!" last year also? And look how that turned out...utter humiliation. I'd much rather the Jets don't get in at all.

As for the rest of the AFC, I think it looks like this:

#3 Texans vs #6 Jets
#4 Broncos vs #5 Steelers

Can the Steelers go into Mile High and beat the Broncos? I don't know, Ben looked awful last night and I don't think 2 weeks rest is going to help him much. That would set up the Broncos going to Baltimore.

I think it comes down to the Pats and Ravens for the AFC Championship. If we can catch the Ravens on one of their bad weeks like how they looked against the Chargers or Jaguars, there is a good chance we can see the Pats in the Super Bowl.

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Don't forget the Ravens have a losing record on the road...

Amazing that Gronk and Hernandez where only rookies last year, I expect them to destroy defenses come playoff time. Seeing how Welker demands attention so pick your poison I think this team is more dangerous offensively than last year. As for the Defense well they may give up tons of yards but they've shown me that they are mentally tough and can give Brady a shot to win every game. Each of the Patriots losses this year where a Td score or less

Rob0729 said:

It is you not getting my point. If the Pats are up by 21 points in the fourth, they might play softer defense in the open field allowing the opposing team to accumulate a lot of garbage time yards that yield very few points. If the Pats start to score quickly and often, that will give the opposing team far more possession than a team that needs 5-7 minutes to score. With more possessions, the opposing team will get more yards just because they have the ball 10 times in a game opposed to 7 times against another team. There is far more that goes into why teams like the Pats and Packers have given up so many yards and yielded so few points relatively.

Teams without high powered offenses, the points allowed and yards allowed are more closely tied because they are not protecting three score leads consistently in the fourth and/or taking significant amount of time off the clock on offense because they cannot move the ball down the field as efficiently as a team like the Pats or Packers.

Again, there is a reason why there is little coorelation between yards and points when it comes to teams like the Pats and the Packers. I would bet that at least 20-40% of the yards allowed by the Pats were in garbage time when the Pats went to a more of a prevent defense and allowed the opposing team to drive slowly down the field to eat up clock time.

One last time, the Pats have not allowed more than 27 points on defense in a single game this year. If they eventually would have given up points with all these yards, the Pats would have had a game or two where they gave up 30 plus points on defense.

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You're right... yards don't matter in football, the patriots only let up their yards when they're up big, in garbage time, in a prevent defense, and they have no worries on defense at all.