Pats vs. Redskins post-game thread

good win for us, and it is my birthday today so a good early present for me, but seriously we have defense problems, but our offense is that good right now

Patspsycho said:

We are not getting to the superbowl without a serious commitment to the run game. Our problem isn't the RB, or the blocking, or this and that. In fact, we've proven that when we put our mind to it, we can dominate with our run game. We destroyed the #1 defense (at the time) with the run game earlier in the season.

However I do acknowledge that the constant shuffling on OL has been a problem. Our run game hasn't been the same since we lost Koppen and had to move Connolly from RG (he is by far the best trapping/kick out guard we have).

Our main problem seems to be the lack of commitment to the run, of the team and coaches really putting their minds to it (in terms of game plan design), and putting Brady back into his place and telling him to stop trying to carry the team so much. That will be better for him over the long run anyway.

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I understand what you are saying, but we as fans are just blaming Brady and BoB blindly. Did you see the BB mic'up segment? He was telling BoB to throw it, throw it, just throw it. BB at times strike me as someone who is just going against his philosophy for the past three years.

vuudu said:

I understand what you are saying, but we as fans are just blaming Brady and BoB blindly. Did you see the BB mic'up segment? He was telling BoB to throw it, throw it, just throw it. BB at times strike me as someone who is just going against his philosophy for the past three years.

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agreed we need a running game, why is everyone treating this as a loss when it was a win?

nbafan89 said:

good win for us, and it is my birthday today so a good early present for me, but seriously we have defense problems, but our offense is that good right now

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Happy Birthday:welcome:

hey look we won

vuudu said:

I understand what you are saying, but we as fans are just blaming Brady and BoB blindly. Did you see the BB mic'up segment? He was telling BoB to throw it, throw it, just throw it. BB at times strike me as someone who is just going against his philosophy for the past three years.

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Your right, BOB could never get away with calling one dimensional games if he didn't have the blessing of BB. This just makes it harder for me at least to understand what has happened BB is a student of the game, he knows historically speaking that you don't win using this philosophy. Same goes for his overall philosophy of being defensive minded, from moving from defense wins games we'll win on offense. But that can't come close to happening if you don't have a balanced offense. I've stated this before he reminds me of D Shula who went from a defense first, (along with running the ball) coach in his early (SB) days to relying on an offense lead by Marino and the passing game. Those Miami teams never had much of a running game in the end from what i can remember. It was Marino throwing the ball all over the field, trying to out score the opponent.

vuudu said:

I understand what you are saying, but we as fans are just blaming Brady and BoB blindly. Did you see the BB mic'up segment? He was telling BoB to throw it, throw it, just throw it. BB at times strike me as someone who is just going against his philosophy for the past three years.

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No, I missed it. When was this? I've heard that he said that in the past, but if he said it again in the Redskins game, that's monumental.

vuudu said:

I understand what you are saying, but we as fans are just blaming Brady and BoB blindly. Did you see the BB mic'up segment? He was telling BoB to throw it, throw it, just throw it. BB at times strike me as someone who is just going against his philosophy for the past three years.

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Our passing game gives us the best chance to score points. Honestly, all this griping about running the ball is weird. We have the second best offense in the league as it is. I could see an argument if our passing game was ineffective, but that's not the case, far from it.

reflexblue said:

Your right, BOB could never get away with calling one dimensional games if he didn't have the blessing of BB. This just makes it harder for me at least to understand what has happened BB is a student of the game, he knows historically speaking that you don't win using this philosophy. Same goes for his overall philosophy of being defensive minded, from moving from defense wins games we'll win on offense. But that can't come close to happening if you don't have a balanced offense. I've stated this before he reminds me of D Shula who went from a defense first, (along with running the ball) coach in his early (SB) days to relying on an offense lead by Marino and the passing game. Those Miami teams never had much of a running game in the end from what i can remember. It was Marino throwing the ball all over the field, trying to out score the opponent.

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The Packers run the ball less than the Pats and they are considered God's gift to offensive football. As BB says, the goal is to score points. Tough to do that running the ball when you don't have any explosive players at the running back position.

ATippett56 said:

No thanks.

2012 NFL Free Agents: DB

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Laron Landry and Cortland Finegan, please. Finegan-Landry-Chung-Dowling would be a very physical group.

letekro said:

The Packers run the ball less than the Pats and they are considered God's gift to offensive football. As BB says, the goal is to score points. Tough to do that running the ball when you don't have any explosive players at the running back position.

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Lets just stick to the Pats OK. When the Law and Riddley only get Five carries somethings wrong. Its obvious that they weren't even trying to establish the run. Even if you dont' gain much yardage the other team has to respect the fact that you might run, this sets up play action and slows the pass rush down. If you go back and look at the Pats most impressive wins this year a balanced attack was the key.

letekro said:

Laron Landry and Cortland Finegan, please. Finegan-Landry-Chung-Dowling would be a very physical group.

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No, thanks. Cortland Finnegan is a little ***** I want nowhere near this team.

condon84 said:

Our passing game gives us the best chance to score points. Honestly, all this griping about running the ball is weird. We have the second best offense in the league as it is. I could see an argument if our passing game was ineffective, but that's not the case, far from it.

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I can see the argument both ways, but really where this is going to kill us is the playoffs when:

1.) The offensive line comes up small and Brady gets hit
2.) The outside receivers struggle to beat man press and don't get open

fthft said:

hey look we won

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Is that what Cunningham was doing during the game?

strngplyr said:

Edelman tackles better than most defenders, not just on our team. It wouldn't be a bad idea to make the full time switch. The dude arm tackles, thats a lost act in todays NFL.

If he can learn it and work on his fundamentals, he could actually be a good DB. I'm all for trying, if it doesn't work, he still plays two other positions.

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Yea I agree 100%. With more reps at corner he good be very good imo. You got to remember that he has only been doing this for a few weeks. What I love about him he is just a football player. He can do a bit of everything and I am happy that we kept him when many people here wanted him cut before the season.

JackBauer said:

I can see the argument both ways, but really where this is going to kill us is the playoffs when:

1.) The offensive line comes up small and Brady gets hit
2.) The outside receivers struggle to beat man press and don't get open

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Will running for 2 YPC against the Ravens and Steelers elite defense help that? What about if the Steelers decide to throw 50 times again and our defense gives us less than half an hour gametime to try to score?

JackBauer said:

I can see the argument both ways, but really where this is going to kill us is the playoffs when:

1.) The offensive line comes up small and Brady gets hit
2.) The outside receivers struggle to beat man press and don't get open

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Here's the problem BB and BOB face:

1.) Passing the ball gives the Patriots a much better chance of getting first downs

2.) Passing the ball is the way the Patriots can score the most points

3.) The defense sucks, and couldn't cover a corpse in a coffin.


There's no real room for error, as we saw demonstrated, yet again, yesterday. If not for the rare offensive PI call followed up by a muffed catch attempt on an easy throw, 34 points would not have been enough to beat a team that was averaging about 17 ppg.



P.S. Not aimed at you, JackBauer, but going along with this thread: I really think that people here underestimate just how bad this Patriots defense is.

JackBauer said:

I can see the argument both ways, but really where this is going to kill us is the playoffs when:

1.) The offensive line comes up small and Brady gets hit
2.) The outside receivers struggle to beat man press and don't get open

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We tried to establish the run against the Steelers early but couldn't do it. We tried to establish the run against the Eagles early but couldn't do it. We can't afford to go three and out early in the game when our defense can't stop teams from scoring. Even if our defense only gives up a FG, those drives usually take a lot of time and puts immense pressure on our offense to score each drive. We just don't have time to establish a running game.

I get why the Pats throw the ball so much, but why do they spend so much time in an empty backfield. Yesterday, they went empty after an 8 yard carry by Woodhead made it 2nd and 2 and were empty on all three plays in a goal to go series with 6 minutes to go in the game. Why? They do some of their best passing off play action.

Patspsycho said:

No, I missed it. When was this? I've heard that he said that in the past, but if he said it again in the Redskins game, that's monumental.

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No, there's no proof at all that this happened in the WAS game. I believe he is referring to last week's 'Mic'ed up' segment that we saw on NFL Network and Showtime.

While I definitely agree that the team needs to run more, they are pretty ineffective in that area. The strength of this team is Brady, and the passing game.

This team has some huge glaring holes in the offensive run game, in beating man coverage in the passing game, and in protecting Brady--and that's just on the offensive side of the ball.

They can't defend the pass for anything on defense, nor can they consistantly pressure the QB. The rush defense is incredibly overrated in my opinion, as the numbers are skewed due to having so many teams choose to throw on them all day long. This run defense is middle of the road, and that's at best.

Those are 3 pretty big problems on both sides of the ball, yet somehow Brady tries his damnest to lead them to victory by putting up 30+ every week, and they have a 10-3 record. I think Brady has done an excellent job this yr at holding this team together, but if anyone expects him to constantly do that against the top-tier oppenents of the playoffs every week they are delusional.

If this team could just solve 3 of those 6 problems, they could at least go to the AFC Championship game and make it very competitive--maybe win.