We should bring in someone who can draft WR's

Joker said:

yeah...there was a thread dedicated to moving up with those two picks ,if I'm remembering correctly...and then ,halfway through his rookie season, there were more "we blew it bigtime on Willis!!!!" threads . Miami drafted Ted Ginn Jr. two slots before Willis. The Pats drafted Meriwether with their first pick and then trade down...to move up, they would have had to package a two with those 1's....looking back, they should have probably done it but then where do the picks for Welker and Moss factor in...you cannot have ALL the candy in the candy store...this seems to be lost on a large number of today's Pats fans.

Click to expand...

Since i believe Defense wins championships i have always believed it was a mistake not to have taken David Harris and Lamar Woodley with the Two first round picks we had that year, Harris and Woodley went just a few picks appart at the end of the first round. The pats could have had both of them, instead they went offense and the rest is history. I think in a couple of years people will look back at this years draft more so than other and say what if.

reflexblue said:

I wouldn't say this because BB has only drafted ONE OLB since hes been here with a high round pick. That being Cunningham who if i remember corectly didnt' play OLB in college.

Click to expand...

None of them do, they're all small DEs. That's why we don't spend the highest picks on converts. By the way, Markell Carter has reportedly put on 15-20 lbs. in the weight room, but if he's successful will people be happy? Noooooooo, we blew a draft pick. He could be th second coming of Lawrence Taylor, but Cunningham the bust will get 200 posts.

Sciz said:

Route adjustments. The WR has to be able to read the defense and adjust accordingly, all while running the route. For example, an easy example of this is Welker's in/out option. He runs 5 yards. He reads whether the CB is more to his outside or inside, and he cuts the other direction. Or Branch reads whether the defense is in cover 2 or cover 4, and runs a comeback against cover 4 but a fade against cover 2. A lot of guys can't think and run at the same time like that.

Click to expand...

Also, deception.. Take the last game with the Eagles.. Welker faked the inside slot and the guy bit on the stutter run, only to watch Welker run right by him for an easy game of catch and run for TD with TB, who also faked the hand off before throwing.. Double deception / adjustments on the fly..

Look at Ocho's patterns.. it's apparent he's having trouble running a very precise route to the spot where Brady wants him to be. When the throw is to be made, he is off by several yards .. which is why you can see Brady yelling at him on the sidelines.. He does great in practice but in game situations, he's reverting back to his Bengal ways where he improvises, forgetting the precision that the play call requires. Welker is disciplined, so is Gronk and Branch. Aaron less so but he's a big body and gets open more than Ocho.

RayClay said:

None of them do, they're all small DEs. That's why we don't spend the highest picks on converts. By the way, Markell Carter has reportedly put on 15-20 lbs. in the weight room, but if he's successful will people be happy? Noooooooo, we blew a draft pick. He could be th second coming of Lawrence Taylor, but Cunningham the bust will get 200 posts.

Click to expand...

I know its irrelavent if someone played OLB or D-end in college, what is relevant is avoiding even trying to grab one in the early rounds. We certainly have used A Lot of early rnd picks on D backs and it hasn't turned out all that great.

TriplecHamp said:

The Giants seem to be churning out WR. Steve smith Pre injury, Hakeem Nicks, Mario Manningham, Victor Cruz and they have a couple of other guys who are up and coming. It seems like the Pats look for gold in the second and third and come up short more times than not but most teams do. WR has a low success rate in the first and it only gets lower. Get em early.

Click to expand...

Steelers/Packers aswell imo.

andrewgarrr said:

The Pats are bad at drafting WRs. That's not looking at draft picks in a vacuum. That's looking at the team's evaluation of WRs coming out of college.

It's poor. It's probably below league average, and it's a legitimate cause of frustration by the fan base.

The Patriots give their fan base a lot to be happy about: wins, championships, good overall hit-rate on draft picks. But they are undoubtedly bad at drafting WR. The good outweigh the bad by miles, but the team's WR drafting definitely goes on the bad column. You can't argue this.

Click to expand...

^^^and that is all that this thread is about

how difficult would it be to bring in someone who has the ability to understand college wr's better?

reflexblue said:

I know its irrelavent if someone played OLB or D-end in college, what is relevant is avoiding even trying to grab one in the early rounds. We certainly have used A Lot of early rnd picks on D backs and it hasn't turned out all that great.

Click to expand...

At the end of the day what matters is whether the team he fields beats the competition and the Patriots win the Super Bowl. It isn't what we did at the WR position or what team has been better at drafting WRs.

I wish the WRs we draft would all turn into legitimate NFL players. I also wish that for every position. Since that is not reality -- and not even close to reality -- winning games is the overlord of what is important. I'm not suggesting unhappiness with the lack of WR draft production is illegitimate. I am suggesting it is not a legitimate reason for BB to be removed from any of his duties with the Patriots.

reflexblue said:

I know its irrelavent if someone played OLB or D-end in college, what is relevant is avoiding even trying to grab one in the early rounds. We certainly have used A Lot of early rnd picks on D backs and it hasn't turned out all that great.

Click to expand...

No. it's very relevant. If you're going to have to convert someone to do a lot of things they've never done, you don't want to miss and have to put a lot of time into them (why i don't worry about Cunningham, Markell Carter, or whoever).

Of course, they're playing different defenses now too. I see them drafting more DL that can play either defense with the highest picks.

Taylor Price, 3rd round 2010
Brandon Tate, 3rd round 2009
Matt Slater, 5th round 2008

dose are the WR's picked in the last 5 Drafts i did not add Edelman because he was Drafted as a QB thats 3 WR's out of 49 picks the last five Drafts i cant call that a fail at Drafting WR's they just ant Drafting them at all,

if they use a #1 on a WR im sure he will have the talent to get on the field and make a impact, so far they have Drafted ST players at WR and us fans want them to play like Calvin Johnson it's just not going to happen, when they Draft a WR with first round talent and if he still cant get on the field or make a impact then i will say they suck at Drafting WR's

My God patriot fans are spoiled we're one of the best drafting teams in the league...... yes they miss but ALOT less then other teams for christ sake quite whining Patriot fans are so lucky to have BB running the draft. I want no one but BB running everything to do with the pats. He's the #1 player/person in NFL history.period.

ALP said:

^^^and that is all that this thread is about

how difficult would it be to bring in someone who has the ability to understand college wr's better?

Click to expand...

Never happen, with this line of thought you would have to bring in someone who understands potential pass rushing LB's also, or potential RB's it could go on and on.

The reality is that any draft is a crap shoot, the difference is that BB is not afraid to cut his losses and move on.. this year we picked up Mallett and Cannon in later rounds, if they, despite their potential, do not get better and are cut.. should we bring in someone to evaluate their positions as well??

Sciz said:

Route adjustments. The WR has to be able to read the defense and adjust accordingly, all while running the route. For example, an easy example of this is Welker's in/out option. He runs 5 yards. He reads whether the CB is more to his outside or inside, and he cuts the other direction. Or Branch reads whether the defense is in cover 2 or cover 4, and runs a comeback against cover 4 but a fade against cover 2. A lot of guys can't think and run at the same time like that.

Click to expand...

Thanks man, that's really interesting.

patsfan-1982 said:

Taylor Price, 3rd round 2010
Brandon Tate, 3rd round 2009
Matt Slater, 5th round 2008

dose are the WR's picked in the last 5 Drafts i did not add Edelman because he was Drafted as a QB thats 3 WR's out of 49 picks the last five Drafts i cant call that a fail at Drafting WR's they just ant Drafting them at all,

if they use a #1 on a WR im sure he will have the talent to get on the field and make a impact, so far they have Drafted ST players at WR and us fans want them to play like Calvin Johnson it's just not going to happen, when they Draft a WR with first round talent and if he still cant get on the field or make a impact then i will say they suck at Drafting WR's

Click to expand...

For the record, they drafted Edleman to be a slot WR. He's never taken a snap at the QB position. Oddly they may have gotten a decent slot corner in the process. This FO drafts better by accident than most teams draft by design...

MoLewisrocks said:

For the record, they drafted Edleman to be a slot WR. He's never taken a snap at the QB position. Oddly they may have gotten a decent slot corner in the process. .

Click to expand...

....who is potentially evolving into a better "dime" defender then a WR

ALP said:

^^^and that is all that this thread is about

how difficult would it be to bring in someone who has the ability to understand college wr's better?

Click to expand...

They should advertise in the classifieds. Wanted, NFL scout who understands college WR's and also the sophisticated sight adjusted offense run by team with the best winning percentage in the NFL over the last decade...



What part of what we do here on offense (or defense for that matter) doesn't remotely equate to what the Packers, Steelers, Giants or any other team does? We're not in the talent collection business, we're in the team building business. You cannot cavalierly project talent into this system. You don't know whether it has the capacity to perform within it until you get it in here and test it. People want the best of both worlds, the level of success we have had as a team coupled with the talent of teams that have not had anything approaching that level of success consistently... Bill Cowher was dubbed a phenominal HC after winning a superbowl at the end of a 15 year run... Andy Reid is a genius having never won one. Mike McCarthy and Ted Thompson and the poor fools who preceeded them were dubbed idiots until they won one...with a lot of existing talent they inherited rather than drafted... But of course that was because they hadn't sniffed one in GB in over a decade. If that happened here the HC would be run out of town on a rail...

Maybe we should just make the kneejerk whiners here happy briefly and flip the overly cerebral Brady for a boatload of picks to be used on athletically gifted WR's and OLB's and then hope we can plug in a QB to run a simple numerical chuck and duck system our elite corps of wideouts can crush and just blitz our way to every superbowl thus finally disproving the old adage that talent doesn't win championships in the NFL, teamwork and disciplined execution and savvy coaching does.

scott99 said:

I think the whole draft process employed by BB may have to be overhauled. Except for the Mankins pick in 2005, Mayo pick in 2008, Mccourty, Gronkowski and Hernandez picks in 2010, and maybe the Solder pick this year, the drafting has been anywhere from disappointing to brutal.

It's obvious that maybe the quantity over quality draft process that BB uses obviously is not successful.

Click to expand...

Jury is still out on Mccourty. Overall pats drafting system and those making picks needs an overhaul....

MoLewisrocks said:

They should advertise in the classifieds. Wanted, NFL scout who understands college WR's and also the sophisticated sight adjusted offense run by team with the best winning percentage in the NFL over the last decade...

What part of what we do here on offense (or defense for that matter) doesn't remotely equate to what the Packers, Steelers, Giants or any other team does? We're not in the talent collection business, we're in the team building business. You cannot cavalierly project talent into this system. You don't know whether it has the capacity to perform within it until you get it in here and test it. People want the best of both worlds, the level of success we have had as a team coupled with the talent of teams that have not had anything approaching that level of success consistently... Bill Cowher was dubbed a phenominal HC after winning a superbowl at the end of a 15 year run... Andy Reid is a genius having never won one. Mike McCarthy and Ted Thompson and the poor fools who preceeded them were dubbed idiots until they won one...with a lot of existing talent they inherited rather than drafted... But of course that was because they hadn't sniffed one in GB in over a decade. If that happened here the HC would be run out of town on a rail...

Maybe we should just make the kneejerk whiners here happy briefly and flip the overly cerebral Brady for a boatload of picks to be used on athletically gifted WR's and OLB's and then hope we can plug in a QB to run a simple numerical chuck and duck system our elite corps of wideouts can crush and just blitz our way to every superbowl thus finally disproving the old adage that talent doesn't win championships in the NFL, teamwork and disciplined execution and savvy coaching does.

Click to expand...

The "yeah but" and "should've lost" crowd is not gonna like that response..

I am apalled that at this stage of the game, so many cannot comprehend BB, his method and reasoning.. the one thing about Bill was all know too well, is that he is not afraid to cut his losses and move one. Either get better at your craft of get out.. not all that complicated.

Maybe this is being looked at the wrong way, maybe someone that knows how to coach WR is needed, and not someone to pick wide receivers and corners. The coaches on this team do not get a lot of scrutiny for the most part, maybe people should look into that.

Let's say I agree with your premise that we are not good at drafting WRs. Even so, considering our other strengths, to me it balances out. We've got the best pair of young tight ends in the league, we consistently field a great offensive line, and our team is extremely competitive. There are very few teams in the NFL that will outscore the Pats in a shootout.

If you are suggesting we should get a new receivers scout, maybe that's true. But the other thing to consider is each year, each draft class is different and the team needs are different. Hitting on the right receiver at the right time, sometimes just doesn't work out. But as long as your overall draft strengthens the team for the future I'm not too worried about it.

ALP said:

Nobody is perfect, even BB, and one of his main weaknesses as an GM is drafting wr's...

we've had TWO good WR selections since 2002, and that is SAD
dont believe me?:
Examining draft history at receiver - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

if nobody on the patriots can evaluate a college WR, then bring in someone who can, its really not that difficult

im starting to get annoyed at missing on all of these WR's, its proving to be a really BIG drawback for this team, and we CANNOT keep relying on FA for WR's

Click to expand...

DarrylS said:

The "yeah but" and "should've lost" crowd is not gonna like that response..

I am apalled that at this stage of the game, so many cannot comprehend BB, his method and reasoning.. the one thing about Bill was all know too well, is that he is not afraid to cut his losses and move one. Either get better at your craft of get out.. not all that complicated.

Click to expand...

I'm appalled that at this stage of the game, so many can't admit that BB's drafting issues have been a problem for the team and choose instead to hide behind completely irrelevant arguments.