2011 Offseason

Ron Sellers · Nov 9, 2011

Brarrell said:
I am not a Michael Felgar fan by any means

Yet you not only listen to him, but go on to repeat everything the Resident Contrarian In The name Of Ratings said today.

m'kay.

but on todays show there was a comparison on how the Jets drafted "trading up for players" vs the Pats trading down for multiple picks you know that value thing and the last 3 years you just don't want to know how lopsided it is towards the Jets., 30 picks for us 12 for them and they have won the draft wars.

Why use the small sample size of three years, except to elicit a response from the angry mob in the never-ending quest for higher ratings?

A better question would perhaps use a larger sample size of all 32 teams over the course of the salary cap era. In how many cases was trading down or into the future successful, and in how many cases was trading up successful? I don't know the answer, but I will say I can't think of any teams off the top of my head that won a championship by trading up. Regardless, the idea of comparing the philosophy of two teams over three years and declaring one right and one wrong seems rather inconclusive to me due to the small amount of data.

Prime free agents don't even bother with us because as Mr. Kraft puts it" if money is the bottom line this isn't the team for them" really! This from a guy who is all about the bottom line.

BB has sold his soul to the Krafts who won a couple of superbowls on the cheap but one thing that never changes in any sport is talent. Great coaches have talent thats how they became great coaches. This is all about money and the Krafts are behind this downfall of this team and eventually BB will be the sacred lamb. The media is now turning on BB and they should but the real culprits are the Krafts who thought that winning on the cheap was the way to go.

Another "Kraft is cheap" rant? That's been refuted so many times, I can't believe people still say that. Seriously?

IMO this all started in 2006 when they wouldn't keep Brady's prime recievers in their prime Givens and Branch and the way they make all their rookies play out their rookie contracts. As much as i love the Pats some pain needs to be felt we are the 3rd wealthiest team in the league but every year we pretend to be the Jacksonville Jaguars as far as drafting and pursuing FA's.

Why do you say 'IMO'? Obviously this is not your opinion; you're simply another person repeating Felger's opinion here.

Doggin94it · Nov 9, 2011

Rob0729 said:
McCourty has actually been solid the last months of games. But comparing a slot CB to to a LCB is not a fair comparison either way. Wilson faces the 3rd best receiver most of the time which McCourty faces the first. Wilson plays man and McCourty plays zone.

You're going to have to explain this one to me, Rob - how is it that McCourty can be both "facing the opposition's best receiver" most of the time and playing primarily zone coverage?

Doggin94it · Nov 9, 2011

JetFan1 said:
Really, burned, beaten, it's the same concept, so you mock me on the selection of the word.

No, it's really not. The phrase "beaten like a rented mule" comes from the fact that people tend to hit equines with a stick when they want them to move faster or work harder - and that people would be far harsher with rented animals than with an animal they owned, because there was no need to worry about long term consequences of a rough beating.

Hence, "beaten like a rented mule" = "beaten extremely severely"

"Burned like a rented mule", on the other hand, makes no sense at all. If you're burning a mule, rented or otherwise, you're probably likely to get The Michael Vick Experience (and not the Nike version)

Observer · Nov 9, 2011

Rob0729 said:
LOL! Dowling's injury history has been overblown. He missed one gaem his first three years in college and seven last year and that is it.

Add a dozen or so missed games from this year and it is quickly apparent that his injury history was not overblown at all.

ATippett56 · Nov 9, 2011

Brarrell said:
Michael Felgar

Who???????

patsfan-1982 · Nov 9, 2011

with the lockout and not being able to sign FA's the pats had a big advantage over eveyone in the NFL they could have bring back everyone from a 14-2 team that end it the season as one of the best defenses in the NFL,

but they moved to a whole new defense with all new players they cut there KR, i know that playoff lose left a bad taste in there mouth but just maybe the pats front office was out thinking them selfs this year they are full of injury and no real dept to account for it

Rob0729 · Nov 9, 2011

Doggin94it said:
You're going to have to explain this one to me, Rob - how is it that McCourty can be both "facing the opposition's best receiver" most of the time and playing primarily zone coverage?

Because usually even in zone coverage, the LCB covers the primary WR most of the time. Yes, he gets over the top help and may pass him off on certain routes, but zone coverage still requires the CB to cover the receiver in that zone many times by himself.

PATSYLICIOUS · Nov 9, 2011

It's still a ways to go before you can call it a true disappointment.

Carter and Anderson have been solid additions to our pass rush especially Carter.
Waters has been a great addition.
Ridley has shown promise, if our running game is ever utilized properly he'll be a key part of our potential postseason success. Vereen who the hell knows.
85 has been a flop thus far, but the fact that Brady kept going at him Sunday in key situations at this point in the season shows it may be too early to give up on him. I actually felt worse about his chances before the game where he had zero catches, but we'll see.
Solder could be an incredible pick and Brady's blindside protection for whatever years he has left. Cannon, again who knows as we've yet to see him either but he could turn out great too.
Adams has been a pleasant suprise IMO, and he still has room to improve. May turn out to be a solid #3 for us.
Mallet may be the heir apparent to keep our run going for another 10 years or so.

The releases of Sanders/Butler/Bodden are still infuriating though until Molden and Brown stop sucking horribly.

E1Downey · Nov 10, 2011

Doggin94it said:
Speaking as a Jets fan watching the team from the outside, that's exactly the problem. When the Pats were signing guys like Pleasant, Phifer, Hamilton, Otis Smith, etc. - guys who were average to below average starters - they were signing them to be complementary guys to a defensive core that included Richard Seymour, Ty Law, Lawyer Milloy (replaced by Harrison), Tedy Bruschi, Mike Vrable, a young Ty Warren (in 2003 & forward), a young Vince Wilfork (2004 and forward), a young Asante Samuel (2003 and forward) . . . guys who were anywhere from "above average starter" to "perennial pro bowler"

Now, you're signing the same type of player, but to join a unit that lacks that type of top end talent. Seriously, your defense has only 3 players I'd consider above average starters at their positions - Wilfork, Mayo, and McCourty, though each is significantly more than just "above average". You can get away with "plug the gap, hold the fort" veterans when the players surrounding them are excellent. You cannot do that when the players surrounding them are equally mediocre. A team of average to below average starters will deliver average to below average performance.

That Belichick is taking the same approach to free agency he did in the early 2000s, at a time when the Pats have significantly less talent in-house going into free agency than they did during those years, is an indictment of Belichick as a GM, not a defense.

This. This. This. THIS!!!

What a wonderful way to articulate what everyone here has been fighting about the past two weeks. The strategy mentioned simply won't continue to work without a strong core of actual starters who are worthy of being on the field.

Anyone can sign complimentary pieces....I really want to see if BB can really/finally rebuild this defense with actual players before Bradys career clock counts all the way down.

I guess that's what everyone wants, because at this rate we may not be competing with your Jets much longer.

ATippett56 · Nov 10, 2011

PATSYLICIOUS said:
It's still a ways to go before you can call it a true disappointment.

Carter and Anderson have been solid additions to our pass rush especially Carter.

Carter yes and Anderson no.

PATSYLICIOUS said:
Waters has been a great addition.

I agree.

PATSYLICIOUS said:
Ridley has shown promise, if our running game is ever utilized properly he'll be a key part of our potential postseason success. Vereen who the hell knows.

Ridley is severely under-utilized.

PATSYLICIOUS said:
85 has been a flop thus far, but the fact that Brady kept going at him Sunday in key situations at this point in the season shows it may be too early to give up on him. I actually felt worse about his chances before the game where he had zero catches, but we'll see.

Time to cut bait.

PATSYLICIOUS said:
Solder could be an incredible pick and Brady's blindside protection for whatever years he has left.

Filled in quite well for Vollmer at right tackle earlier in the season.

PATSYLICIOUS said:
Cannon, again who knows as we've yet to see him either but he could turn out great too.

Too early to tell either way.

PATSYLICIOUS said:
Adams has been a pleasant suprise IMO, and he still has room to improve. May turn out to be a solid #3 for us.

#5 cornerback at best. I unfortunately expect the New England Patriots expend another draft pick on a cornerback in 2012.

PATSYLICIOUS said:
Mallet may be the heir apparent to keep our run going for another 10 years or so.

Meanwhile 2008 third round draft pick Kevin O'Connell only lasted a year with the New England Patriots.

PATSYLICIOUS said:
The releases of Sanders/Butler/Bodden are still infuriating though until Molden and Brown stop sucking horribly.

Molden and Brown do not belong on a NFL roster.

Based on the season to date, Jermaine Cunningham looks like a bust and Taylor Price is a myth.

Sciz · Nov 10, 2011

ATippett56 said:
Molden and Brown do not belong on a NFL roster.

Belichick is trying to fix special teams, not gut them.

ATippett56 · Nov 10, 2011

Sciz said:
Belichick is trying to fix special teams, not gut them.

McCourty and Arrington play special teams, as well. You do realize that Eugene Wilson and Rodney Harrison played special teams on the 2003-2004 Super Bowl teams.

Joker · Nov 10, 2011

Doggin94it said:
No, it's really not. The phrase "beaten like a rented mule" comes from the fact that people tend to hit equines with a stick when they want them to move faster or work harder - and that people would be far harsher with rented animals than with an animal they owned, because there was no need to worry about long term consequences of a rough beating.

Hence, "beaten like a rented mule" = "beaten extremely severely"

"Burned like a rented mule", on the other hand, makes no sense at all. If you're burning a mule, rented or otherwise, you're probably likely to get The Michael Vick Experience (and not the Nike version)

heh...I see you've run across the World According To Garp Garp 19 (aka JetFan1).

He's the MASTER of the malaprop...gems like "whistlin' gypsy","you Pats fans have channel vision" and "for all intensive purposes" roll off his fingers like a three wheeled car off the interstate....his fanclub will be ecstatic with this latest motherlode

Off The Grid · Nov 10, 2011

Wilfork#75 said:
Its especially sad when we look back at that first preseason game when everything looked so promising. The chance of moving to an attacking, aggressive 4-3 defence with a dominating D-line. Unfortunately we kept the same scheme with a different front, and similar results to previous years. This season definitely isn't over yet, but there are obviously some things that really need to be addressed in the offseason.

True words, Brother Wilfork.

I was JACKED ~ Pete Carroll Reference!! Woot!! :rocker: ~ at the beginning of the X Games, when we were all swarming and attacking...And then it was as if Coach Bill The Mad got a vivisection.

...And we haven't been the same since.

Off The Grid · Nov 10, 2011

I'm sorry: "Burned like a rented mule"???

Old Jet Fan...He ain't too bright!! :bricks:

ATippett56 · Nov 10, 2011

Off The Grid said:
I'm sorry: "Burned like a rented mule"???

Old Jet Fan...He ain't too bright!! :bricks:

Is that a New York Jet tailgate special?

Off The Grid · Nov 10, 2011

~ Classic Moments in Mule Burning ~

Brother Harry "Burns a Mule" in Dumb + Dumber

Joker · Nov 10, 2011

here's another JetFan1 special .."don't have a canary!"...heh

Off The Grid · Nov 10, 2011

~ Classic Moments in Mule Burning ~

Brother Dave Chappelle Burns a Mule

ATippett56 · Nov 10, 2011

Off The Grid said:
~ Classic Moments in Mule Burning ~

Brother Harry "Burns a Mule" in Dumb + Dumber

A typical Jet fan at the conclusion of another disappointing season.

2011 Offseason

2nd Team Getting Their First Start

Practice Squad Player

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Pro Bowl Player

In the Starting Line-Up

PatsFans.com Supporter

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2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

Pro Bowl Player

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

PatsFans.com Supporter

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Pro Bowl Player

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