Our secondary sucks, but we need a deep threat

SeanBruschi54 said:

Really? Because Wes Welker says hello.

Wanna know why he was so open? Because nobody gave a damn he was open. Look back on that play welker was covered along with branch and gronk. No reason to have someone carry taylor price because 1. he rarely plays 2. if hes going to make a deep threat Troy is there to cover that.

Boom. Play over.

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Actually your point #2 is flawed, Troy wasn't always there, epecially on the play when Price should've had a touchdown pass but instead had to come back on an underthrown pass from a rushed Brady. And, since no one gives a damn about him, all the more reasons to go to him (more than just once per game) until he shows that he cannot play.

Also Pats FANS need to take a deep breath and relax. It's only a regular season loss, their second, on the road, to a division leader. Although it was after a bye week, it's not the same type of bye week compared to past years thanks to the new CBA. And given how bad the Pats played, they STILL had a chance for the win in the final 5 minutes. Sometimes a loss can serve as better motiviation for improvement than a win (ie blowout win against the Jets).

So, in Bill I WILL ALWAYS trust.

Trycked said:

Actually your point #2 is flawed, Troy wasn't always there, epecially on the play when Price should've had a touchdown pass but instead had to come back on an underthrown pass from a rushed Brady. And, since no one gives a damn about him, all the more reasons to go to him (more than just once per game) until he shows that he cannot play.

Also Pats FANS need to take a deep breath and relax. It's only a regular season loss, their second, on the road, to a division leader. Although it was after a bye week, it's not the same type of bye week compared to past years thanks to the new CBA. And given how bad the Pats played, they STILL had a chance for the win in the final 5 minutes. Sometimes a loss can serve as better motiviation for improvement than a win (ie blowout win against the Jets).

So, in Bill I WILL ALWAYS trust.

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You were doing fine until you got to the second paragraph and lost your mind.

We could REALLY use a deep threat

It's starting to hurt our offense. We simply have no one fast enough, tall enough, or skilled enough to consistently get open deep. Let's face it guys, this defense is awful. They are going to stay awful. Many years of wasted draft picks by Bill on the D have put on D in shambles. It's our offense that will keep us afloat. However, our Offense has been struggling lately. If we cannot get out offensive back to the jauggernaut it once was, we have no shot at the superbowl.

Re: We could REALLY use a deep threat

They should have gotten Vincent Jackson, everyone was against it, but Chad isn't the best leader himself, nor are our draft picks so important. Also Chad and Ellis make a lot of money to wear jerseys, so money is not an excuse.

Re: We could REALLY use a deep threat

NG Pats Fan said:

It's starting to hurt our offense. We simply have no one fast enough, tall enough, or skilled enough to consistently get open deep.

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Hard to get open deep when Brady doesn't have the time. We keep forcing these medium and long routes when he no time. Play small ball. I find O'brien to be a very mediocre play caller. We always seem to be late to make adjustments and seem unwilling to take chances early in a game. Then we play from behind with no urgency.

Re: We could REALLY use a deep threat

Atlanta Patsfan said:

Hard to get open deep when Brady doesn't have the time. We keep forcing these medium and long routes when he no time. Play small ball. I find O'brien to be a very mediocre play caller. We always seem to be late to make adjustments and seem unwilling to take chances early in a game. Then we play from behind with no urgency.

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theres been plenty of times this season where Brady has all day and a half and still can't find someone. The fact that teams can pretty much come up an manhandle our receivers without having to worry about getting beat over the top is a serios probably. The long passing game hasn't been good since Randy left and it needs to be adressed yesterday but its not happening. There isn't a receiver on this team that will command double coverage down the field.

Re: We could REALLY use a deep threat

They need man-beaters at WR.

Guys who can get off jams in press coverage, and create separation vs corners with good man to man skills. Not necessarily a deep threat.

Welker is not an outside WR. Branch is excellent at reading and finding seams in the zone, but cannot separate vs good man coverage. Ocho is a non factor. Price and Slater are not starting caliber.

That's why the Pats struggle against teams that play defense in the Rex/Rob Ryan mold. They play predominantly man coverage in the back end, even on blitzes. Brady picks apart zone defense and zone blitzes because him and his WR's are smart enough to read the defense and find the hole/seam. But when Brady's WR's can't separate vs man coverage, what can he do? It's out of his control. That's why he looks like he has happy feet back there. No one is open and he doesn't want to risk an INT so he keeps holding onto the ball.

Even Moss was not a good man beater, he was strictly a fly route/deep post/endzone jump ball type of guy because he had no interest in going over the middle and wasn't a crisp route runner.

Re: We could REALLY use a deep threat

They've needed a player who could attack the defense on the middle-deep levels for some time now.

Re: We could REALLY use a deep threat

Price has been given a chance to contribute in 2 regular season games that I know of. 1 was the Dolphin game last year where he caught at least one long pass for the TD. 1 was yesterday where he clearly beat his guy and Brady underthrew him.

Re: We could REALLY use a deep threat

We need athletic playmakers on offense. The savy-veteran who runs good routes is a fantastic complement, but you can't have an offense based solely on that kind of player. The Patriots don't necessarily need a deep threat, but they could use young guys with above-average physical skills.

The Steelers have done exactly that. Neither Sanders nor Brown are very fast guys, but both can operate in that intermediate area of the field pretty well, and they are complemented by a smart, veteran, possession receiver in Ward, and a burner in Wallace. They completely revamped their offense in a very short period of time without spending high draft picks. There's no reason we shouldn't be able to do the same.

Re: We could REALLY use a deep threat

RodThePat said:

We need athletic playmakers on offense. The savy-veteran who runs good routes is a fantastic complement, but you can't have an offense based solely on that kind of player. The Patriots don't necessarily need a deep threat, but they could use young guys with above-average physical skills.

The Steelers have done exactly that. Neither Sanders nor Brown are very fast guys, but both can operate in that intermediate area of the field pretty well, and they are complemented by a smart, veteran, possession receiver in Ward, and a burner in Wallace. They completely revamped their offense in a very short period of time without spending high draft picks. There's no reason we shouldn't be able to do the same.

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Sanders and Brown benefit from Wallace. The Patriots don't have a similar player (threaten midddle-deep) to help out the Welker/Gronk/Hernandez trio. That's what makes the decision not to trade for Lloyd such a curious one. I'd really like to know what Lloyd's contract demands were, since the claim is that it was contract which drove the Patriots away.

Re: We could REALLY use a deep threat

This team won 3 SB's without a deep threat. Cardinals have Fitzgerald, Miami has Marshall, Carolina has Smith, how are they doing? When you only get 20 minutes of offense, there is no room for mistakes. The defense did not give the offense enough time to build up a rhythm.

Re: We could REALLY use a deep threat

LasVegasPatsFan said:

This team won 3 SB's without a deep threat. Cardinals have Fitzgerald, Miami has Marshall, Carolina has Smith, how are they doing? When you only get 20 minutes of offense, there is no room for mistakes. The defense did not give the offense enough time to build up a rhythm.

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All 3 Super Bowl winners had at least 1 player who could threaten middle-deep. Additionally, all 3 Super Bowl winners had much better defenses than this club, and yes, that includes the 2001 defense.

Re: We could REALLY use a deep threat

It doesnt take a genius to notice that and its hurting Brady and this offense.All these homers think its fine and its not!!!!Someone should put up the numbers combined with Ocho and Branch.Branch is not consistent enough and Ocho flat out has been a disaster!!!I am surprise he hasnt been cut!!!

Welker is a fine little player but he's an inside guy and not outside.Also the TEs.You need speed.It seemed like the steelers where flying around yesterday and this team looked slow compared to the team thats thought as old.

Re: We could REALLY use a deep threat

Deus Irae said:

All 3 Super Bowl winners had at least 1 player who could threaten middle-deep. Additionally, all 3 Super Bowl winners had much better defenses than this club, and yes, that includes the 2001 defense.

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This defense is pathetic and to think that a deep threat would have helped us yesterday is asinine. Right now the Pats defense is on pace to allow over 5100 yards of passing. That will be a new NFL record by over 500 yards. Deep threat is the least of their concerns. With our current receivers, the Pats are #3 in the NFL in offense. Hows that possible?

Re: We could REALLY use a deep threat

LasVegasPatsFan said:

This defense is pathetic

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True

LasVegasPatsFan said:

and to think that a deep threat would have helped us yesterday is asinine.

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Absolutely false

LasVegasPatsFan said:

Right now the Pats defense is on pace to allow over 5100 yards of passing. That will be a new NFL record by over 500 yards. Deep threat is the least of their concerns. With our current receivers, the Pats are #3 in the NFL in offense. Hows that possible?

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As happens so often, you're fooled into looking at pretty bows and ribbons instead of looking at the actual product. The reality is that the defense sucks AND the team needs a player to threaten middle-deep when it comes up against teams that can handle press coverage man-to-man.

Those aren't mutually exclusive.

Re: We could REALLY use a deep threat

Hey Vegas u need to stop looking past the stats when it comes to this offense.Everywhere around the league i see teams with wrs making plays on the outside.This team has none of that!!!!!!Its catching up to them.

Re: We could REALLY use a deep threat

Deus Irae said:

They've needed a player who could attack the defense on the middle-deep levels for some time now.

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If we're not talking to TO right now, this team needs a coaching/GM enema.

Re: We could REALLY use a deep threat

Past stats? As of today NE's offense is ranked #3. Would you agree if we had either the Steelers or Ravens defense we would would have won yesterday? Giving the offense only 20 minutes to operate is not enough time to establish a rhythm. If you are only given a limited amount of reps in a game, you must execute flawlessly. This offense and its WR are enough to win a SB. The defense has to do its part. I'm not saying I dont want a deep threat. Thats just the least of our problems.

Re: We could REALLY use a deep threat

Deus Irae said:

Sanders and Brown benefit from Wallace. The Patriots don't have a similar player (threaten midddle-deep) to help out the Welker/Gronk/Hernandez trio. That's what makes the decision not to trade for Lloyd such a curious one. I'd really like to know what Lloyd's contract demands were, since the claim is that it was contract which drove the Patriots away.

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Not just Lloyd, there have been a ton of guys since Moss started quitting. Management just doesn't see it as a concern, or maybe they did when they got Ocho, this is one of the most confusing things we have encountered, no one knows.