FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning...

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

We already knew this...

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

Palm Beach Pats Fan said:

I left off a few things: I'll take TB when

indoors
outdoors

when it's

cold
mild
hot
rainy
sunny
snowy
windy
calm
bright
dark

when
sleet is is falling
Oobleck is falling (if you have kids)
the field has unexplained vortexes
the game is made more difficult by brief meteor showers

I can't think of a scenario when I'd want Manning, unless there's a costume contest at halftime and special prizes are given to Goobers with huge foreheads

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I'd take manning over brady any day...............for stand up comedy.

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

Hopefully these guys can have a few more classic games. It's already a QB/QB rivalry for the ages and one that may be tops for awhile.

Every year theres supposed to be a new QB to join the discussion at the top of the pack with Brady and Manning and after a year or two with equal praise they fall into a second teir.

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

Unless Brady has at least another MVP and/or Super Bowl run, Manning will be remembered as the better QB. That's just the way it is. That's the public perception. Sure, lots of people would still pick Brady over Manning, but Manning will win the publicity battle. You can argue against it if you want but you might as well just bang you head against the wall.

Honestly, who gives a crap? They're both first ballot locks, top 10 all time QBs. Arguing which one is better is a waste of time.

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

JJDChE said:

Unless Brady has at least another MVP and/or Super Bowl run, Manning will be remembered as the better QB. That's just the way it is. That's the public perception. Sure, lots of people would still pick Brady over Manning, but Manning will win the publicity battle. You can argue against it if you want but you might as well just bang you head against the wall.

Honestly, who gives a crap? They're both first ballot locks, top 10 all time QBs. Arguing which one is better is a waste of time.

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A handful of years ago you might be right, but at this point in time I think Brady is considered the better QB regardless. Recently you've been able to count on manning for roughly 15 INT's annually. That's not pretty.

What is the most important job of the quarterback on any team? Protect the ball, right? Turning it over is one of the worst things you can do in football.

INT's last 5 full seasons:
Tom Brady - 14, 12, 8, 13, 4 (seemingly going down if you want to use 2009's injury recovery as an excuse, i don't think i'd go there though)
Peyton Manning - 9, 14, 12, 16, 17 (almost a pattern facing upwards)

That 9 is Peyton's lowest ever, the only time he threw under 10, that 14 is TB's highest. Manning has also thrown 28, 23, and 19 in other seasons.

Manning throws a pick on average every 36 attempts (averaging 34 attempts/game), Brady on every 46 (avg 33 att/gm).

If I want a QB I can count on to be clutch and protect the football, I know who I am turning to. If I want 4500 yards during the regular season because my team's management won't invest in anything other than receivers, I know who to turn to.

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

Brady doesnt throw his team under the bus like Manning has done. BTW, hearing the media cry throughout last season about how Manning didn't have any weapons was so damn annoying.

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

Keyser Söze said:

Brady doesnt throw his team under the bus like Manning has done. BTW, hearing the media cry throughout last season about how Manning didn't have any weapons was so damn annoying.

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They didn't really cry about it, they sucked him off for the numbers he put up with JAGs and then blamed them for his bad throws and bad decisions.

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

strngplyr said:

A handful of years ago you might be right, but at this point in time I think Brady is considered the better QB regardless. Recently you've been able to count on manning for roughly 15 INT's annually. That's not pretty.

What is the most important job of the quarterback on any team? Protect the ball, right? Turning it over is one of the worst things you can do in football.

INT's last 5 full seasons:
Tom Brady - 14, 12, 8, 13, 4 (seemingly going down if you want to use 2009's injury recovery as an excuse, i don't think i'd go there though)
Peyton Manning - 9, 14, 12, 16, 17 (almost a pattern facing upwards)

That 9 is Peyton's lowest ever, the only time he threw under 10, that 14 is TB's highest. Manning has also thrown 28, 23, and 19 in other seasons.

Manning throws a pick on average every 36 attempts (averaging 34 attempts/game), Brady on every 46 (avg 33 att/gm).

If I want a QB I can count on to be clutch and protect the football, I know who I am turning to. If I want 4500 yards during the regular season because my team's management won't invest in anything other than receivers, I know who to turn to.

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To this point Manning has had a better career, statistically. He's a few years older than Brady and Manning appears to be on the down slope, so it's not surprising that Brady is considered better right now. If they both retired today, Manning had a better career. Brady has a chance to catch up if Manning really does tail off down the stretch, though.

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

Keyser Söze said:

Brady doesnt throw his team under the bus like Manning has done. BTW, hearing the media cry throughout last season about how Manning didn't have any weapons was so damn annoying.

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If you thought that was annoying, wait till this year when on top of that they will proclaim he is a superhero for playing after his neck surgery. He might be heading towards becoming a Favre. I feel sorry for him.

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

JJDChE said:

To this point Manning has had a better career, statistically. He's a few years older than Brady and Manning appears to be on the down slope, so it's not surprising that Brady is considered better right now. If they both retired today, Manning had a better career. Brady has a chance to catch up if Manning really does tail off down the stretch, though.

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3/4 < 1/2? In the end most players determine how successful they were by how often they led their team to the superbowl and won.

Manning has more MVP awards sure, that's an award that shouldn't be in football. It is an individual award in a team sport. Brady can win the next 10 and I would still argue that it is a bad award.

Manning is the one playing catch up, do you think he cares about breaking Brett Favre's passing yard record? No. He cares about retiring with more superbowl wins than anyone in history. He has quite a long way to go. Brady had a better and more successful career in his first 4 years as a starter than most players do in their entire NFL career.

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

JJDChE said:

To this point Manning has had a better career, statistically.

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How do you figure? Are you using totals? Run the totals through games started... then look at QB Rating, weather conditions played in, playoff records and performances, being a leader under all conditions...

How can anyone but the most mordant Manning suck up not see that Brady is better, and by no small measure?

Mannings peak was in 2004 - and he's been tailing off since 2006. Brady's was in 2007 (when he finally got some guys to throw to), and carries through thru at least 2010, and this year looks very promising.

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

I thought we were talking about who's the better QB, not which team has a better coaching staff and management?

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

JJDChE said:

I thought we were talking about who's the better QB, not which team has a better coaching staff and management?

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You can't compare the two if you don't take into account other variables. Unless they are both playing under the same circumstances (same team, same age, same WR, same field, same opposing defense, etc), choosing one over the other automatically factors in the coaching staff and management.

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

bagwell368 said:

How do you figure? Are you using totals? Run the totals through games started... then look at QB Rating, weather conditions played in, playoff records and performances, being a leader under all conditions...

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Totals don't mean anything? Manning is closing in on some very highly respected records. And he has plenty of records already under his belt that Brady will never touch.

bagwell368 said:

How can anyone but the most mordant Manning suck up not see that Brady is better, and by no small measure?

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It's pretty easy if you're objective.

bagwell368 said:

Mannings peak was in 2004 - and he's been tailing off since 2006. Brady's was in 2007 (when he finally got some guys to throw to), and carries through thru at least 2010, and this year looks very promising.

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Manning won the MVP in '08 and '09. Powerful evidence he's been 'tailing off since 2006', eh?

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

favre got totally screwed out of the mvp in one of those years that they decided to give it to peyton

true story

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

strngplyr said:

You can't compare the two if you don't take into account other variables. Unless they are both playing under the same circumstances (same team, same age, same WR, same field, same opposing defense, etc), choosing one over the other automatically factors in the coaching staff and management.

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Sure, but the point is to try. I'm sure Super Bowls are the end all for players, but when you're talking about all time greatness, other factors come into play, too.

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

jcdavey said:

favre got totally screwed out of the mvp in one of those years that they decided to give it to peyton

true story

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Could possibly make a case for Rivers, Brees, and Rodgers during that time frame too.

Brady is the only unanimous winner.

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

JJDChE said:

Totals don't mean anything? Manning is closing in on some very highly respected records. And he has plenty of records already under his belt that Brady will never touch.

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There are totals and there are rate stats. Brady has 143 starts, Manning has 208 starts. Do you honestly want to hold the totals of a guy that has 68.75% as many games started without any adjustments as another guy - oh yeah, that would suit you fine, wouldn't it? While we are at it, let's factor in Mannings high priced offensive talent advantage over Brady from 2001-2006 inclusive, and the weather, and the playoffs.

In rate stats (percentage to some), Brady beats Manning in things like Int%, and QB Rating. Manning simply makes more mistakes then Brady. He's wedded to that QB hero thing, and forces balls, makes bad reads, gets rattled and makes bad choices - all visible in his turnover history - regular season and post season both.

It's pretty easy if you're objective.

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What? Seeing Manning as an overpaid (given his results - really study how much he has been paid for 1 stinking SB win, and 10 other abject losses in the post season to end the year), mistake prone, whiner that loses his cool with regularity? A media darling with great skills, but just lacking the nerve to be in the top group of QB's of all time.... such a pity.

Manning won the MVP in '08 and '09. Powerful evidence he's been 'tailing off since 2006', eh?

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Derek Jeter has what 5 GG Awards, what does that prove except popular offensive players often get awards they do not deserve.

In fact your binky HAS been tailing off, it's right there in black and white, let me lead you through it:

PMS's QB Rating:

2004 - 121.1
2005 - 104.1
2006 - 101.0
2007 - 98.0
2008 - 95.0
2009 - 99.9
2010 - 91.9

Every year in the last 6 Manning's QB Rating was lower then the year before except 2009, which he followed up by his worst mark since 2002. Ahem.

What happened in 2001 to Manning BTW? James went down in the sixth game. At that time Manning had 12 TD's and 9 Int's and the team had a 3-3 record, then after James was gone Manning in the next 10 games had 14 TD's and 14 Int's and the team was 3-7. Didn't seem to do much with that did he?

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

bagwell368 said:

There are totals and there are rate stats. Brady has 143 starts, Manning has 208 starts. Do you honestly want to hold the totals of a guy that has 68.75% as many games started without any adjustments as another guy - oh yeah, that would suit you fine, wouldn't it? While we are at it, let's factor in Mannings high priced offensive talent advantage over Brady from 2001-2006 inclusive, and the weather, and the playoffs.

In rate stats (percentage to some), Brady beats Manning in things like Int%, and QB Rating. Manning simply makes more mistakes then Brady. He's wedded to that QB hero thing, and forces balls, makes bad reads, gets rattled and makes bad choices - all visible in his turnover history - regular season and post season both.



What? Seeing Manning as an overpaid (given his results - really study how much he has been paid for 1 stinking SB win, and 10 other abject losses in the post season to end the year), mistake prone, whiner that loses his cool with regularity? A media darling with great skills, but just lacking the nerve to be in the top group of QB's of all time.... such a pity.




Derek Jeter has what 5 GG Awards, what does that prove except popular offensive players often get awards they do not deserve.

In fact your binky HAS been tailing off, it's right there in black and white, let me lead you through it:

PMS's QB Rating:

2004 - 121.1
2005 - 104.1
2006 - 101.0
2007 - 98.0
2008 - 95.0
2009 - 99.9
2010 - 91.9

Every year in the last 6 Manning's QB Rating was lower then the year before except 2009, which he followed up by his worst mark since 2002. Ahem.

What happened in 2001 to Manning BTW? James went down in the sixth game. At that time Manning had 12 TD's and 9 Int's and the team had a 3-3 record, then after James was gone Manning in the next 10 games had 14 TD's and 14 Int's and the team was 3-7. Didn't seem to do much with that did he?

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Sorry but unless you use the totals of two quarterbacks with a difference of 65 games (thats over 4 seasons folks) I don't want to hear it, you're not being objective.

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

Give me a situation of 3rd and long on offense in a regular season game and I would choose Peyton over Brady to connect for a first down.

Give me a situation of 1 minute to go in a tie game in a playoff game and I go with Brady over Manning in that scenario.