Too many receivers?

skri65 · Jul 30, 2011

I never really saw the love for Tate. It'd be one thing if the guy produced as a WR in college, but Tate has always been more of a KR than a WR. He just doesn't have the hip ability to make those smooth cuts. And please, just because a guy makes circus reel catches doesn't mean he's any good. Bethel Johnson made crazy catches but he was never a good WR. He was just very athletic, and so it Tate. But it doesn't mean he's a good WR.

What has always bothered me about Tate as a WR is that he simply never has been a very good one throughout his collegiate and professional career. This guy never gained more than 470 receiving yards at UNC...granted he was injured in his final season and was on pace for a decent season yard-wise. But in the end, I just don't see why anyone should feel confident that Tate will suddenly become the receiver that he simply has never been.

With that said, what he lacks in experience he can make up for with athleticism. We'll see if BB is willing to give him the chance to gain that experience.

mgteich · Jul 30, 2011

I think that is Welker's contract that is up after this season; Branch after 2012.

Metaphors said:
Couple of issues:

1) There will likely only be 4 WR active with Hernandez, Vereen and Woodhead able to split wide in a pinch. Ocho and Branch fill essentially the same role with a limited ability to attack the deep post and fly routes.

2) Tate and Edelperson have key roles on special teams. Both are top 5 return guys now and are young enough that they could still improve significantly.

3) Speaking of age...Tate and Price haven't turned 24 yet, so they are still "draft pick" young. Edelperson is 25 which is nice in case those guys need to rent a car. Youngsters need a couple of things...meaningful practice reps and increasing game reps. If you are unwilling or unable to commit to this at a position, don't draft at that position.

4) I'll take "Why can't the Pats find someone like Mike Wallace?" for $200, Alex.

The answer is "When I was 23, I had two games with more than 3 catches and two games with over 80 yards receiving."

*****DING******

Who is Mike Wallace?

Correct. We would also have accepted "Who is Brandon Tate?"

It always seems to in these types of situations. In the odd case where everyone survives the preseason intact, the above evidence leads me to believe that Branch has to move. Redundant skill set, $2M cap charge, contract up in 2011. Makes more sense than the others unless someone coughs up a hairball in the preseason.

Metaphors · Jul 30, 2011

strngplyr said:
He isn't the downfield threat everybody was hoping for, he can't create separation.

Poppy**** and balderdash. The early Moss issues and the Pats historic offensive efficiency after Moss left made the offense risk-averse. Brady didn't go deep because he generally didn't have to and he was on an amazing interception-free streak. If you honestly think Brady was looking deep often but Tate couldn't get behind the defense...well you just are seeing what you want to see.

strngplyr said:
If he makes the roster I'd still rather give his reps to Price and see what he can do.

Price blazed a strong time at the combine, but when has he ever shown the skill set (with pads on) to be a consistent deep threat? He played in a high school offense at Ohio and was counted on as a safety blanket more than a vertical weapon. Not saying he can't do it...just that he hasn't. Price needs reps but why sacrifice Tate to do it?

strngplyr said:
Tate had his chance

23 years old. 18 games. 0.5 training camps. Yep, we can't wait forever.

Metaphors · Jul 30, 2011

mgteich said:
I think that is Welker's contract that is up after this season; Branch after 2012.

I thought they both were up after this season. If not...my bad.

BillBelichickFan79 · Jul 30, 2011

This is probably the best depth we've had at WR since 2007 when we had Moss, Welker, Stallworth, Gaffney as our top 4 WR's.

No more Isiah Stanback, Sam Aiken, Joey Galloway as the #3 WR -- love it.

Now we've got Ochocinco and Branch on the outside. We've also got Tate and Price who were drafted to play on the outside and are still young and could improve. Welker is the best slot WR in the game and Edelman is excellent insurance behind him, as well as an elusive playmaker in the open field that could be used more on KR and PR duties this year. Also add in Gronkowski and Hernandez, the best TE duo we've ever had with their ability to contribute greatly in the passing game.

Brady has a ton of weapons at his disposal, some older/prove and some younger/unproven with some solid potential. There's no way they have too many WR's. With all the shotgun sets they love to use, I actually wouldn't mind seeing them add another guy at WR.

PatsFanInVa · Jul 30, 2011

Well, once you have 54 of them, the math kicks in, right? Plus we have to leave you the 2 TEs, which takes us down to 52. And even though we probably want to drop Mallett and Hoyer, we'd still want to keep Brady, so that's 51.

After that it's just a matter of whether all those RBs, linemen, defensive players, punters, and kickers are necessary. Was it Ochocinco that kicked one last year or was that TO.... I forget...

italia44 · Jul 30, 2011

strngplyr said:
He isn't the downfield threat everybody was hoping for, he can't create separation. If he makes the roster I'd still rather give his reps to Price and see what he can do. Tate had his chance, we can't redshirt Price for his sophmore season too.

If 3 great catches are all you need to make this team than we might be in trouble.

Read my whole post on Tate.....I like him and think he was maligned,but in the "numbers" game,I think he will be the one to go.But,you can bet that he will be grabbed up quickly by another team.

strngplyr · Jul 30, 2011

italia44 said:
Read my whole post on Tate.....I like him and think he was maligned,but in the "numbers" game,I think he will be the one to go.But,you can bet that he will be grabbed up quickly by another team.

I don't doubt he'll be picked up quickly if cut. Plenty of teams need WR help and can certainly help.

I've been critical of him, maybe he just lacks the REAL in game reps. Maybe practice won't get him in a rhythm like being on the field for more than a handful of snaps at a time can. We don't know. But for what chances he has had (even if limited) he hasn't lived up to expectations. And, he may never get a chance, we might not know what he can do until he gets on a less crowded roster at his position.

I have nothing against him, but if it comes down to a WR being cut I see him and Slater as the casualties and Price getting his chance to be active on game day. There is absolutely no way I see him being redshirted 2 years in a row, and if he is then he will probably find his way out next season.

As for Tates KR duties, we've got some shifty and speedy RB's and Price has been getting (some) reps in TC from what i've heard.

TheSolderKing · Jul 30, 2011

italia44 said:
Read my whole post on Tate.....I like him and think he was maligned,but in the "numbers" game,I think he will be the one to go.But,you can bet that he will be grabbed up quickly by another team.

Suh kicked a FG I know Ocho kicked off... it is safe to say it was Ocho w/ the FG

NEPats1 · Jul 31, 2011

This is the 2nd time Reiss hints Price might be on the outs, I really hope this isn't the case!

3. Ochocinco is right into the mix and it's what one would expect. Smooth routes and good hands. When looking at the receiver depth chart, I think it's going to be tough for second-year man Taylor Price to break through.

Quick-hit thoughts from practice - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

On the brighter side, heres an interesting tidbit:

10. Keep an eye on Julian Edelman as a player who could be a bigger-than-expected contributor on offense in 2011. It's only a few training camp practices, but he seems to have earned the trust of Tom Brady on the field.

Quick-hit thoughts around NFL & Pats - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

mgteich · Jul 31, 2011

If Price is the odd man out, it is because he is not considered ready for serious minutes at WR and he is not a top special teamer, punt returner or kick returner.

While I'd like to Price stay, keeping the returners with the expectation that one of them can be ready to step up if one of the top three wideouts is out seems quite reasonable.

The bottom line is that #4 and #5 receivers need to be able to compete on special teams. In the current 4 year contract environment, a player only gets one red shirt season.

NEPats1 said:
This is the 2nd time Reiss hints Price might be on the outs, I really hope this isn't the case!

On the brighter side, heres an interesting tidbit:

Deus Irae · Aug 1, 2011

Troy Brown is on WEEI today. He was just talking about the bottom 3. He loves Edelman's talent but doesn't expect him to do big things this year because of all the other options, says he hasn't seen enough of Price, and doesn't think Tate's going to make it in New England.

I look forward to people here pummeling Troy Brown as a contrarian who should just get in line with the rest of the "In BB we trust" folks.

Eat Da Pu Pu · Aug 1, 2011

I like the receiving core it's a group of guys you can feel comfortable with, a lot of guys who can catch the ball anywhere on the field that includes WR/TE and backs.

mgteich · Aug 1, 2011

Yup, we have seven solid receivers:
Welker, Ochocinco, Branch, Hernandez, Gronkowski, Woodhead and Faulk (or Green-Ellis).

We plenty of top receivers to run any receiver set.
=================================

And then we have Tate, Edelman and Price competing to be the #8 and #9 receiver targets.

Eat Da Pu Pu said:
I like the receiving core it's a group of guys you can feel comfortable with, a lot of guys who can catch the ball anywhere on the field that includes WR/TE and backs.

ctpatsfan77 · Aug 1, 2011

mgteich said:
Yup, we have seven solid receivers:
Welker, Ochocinco, Branch, Hernandez, Gronkowski, Woodhead and Faulk (or Green-Ellis).

One of these things is not like the others, one of these things doesn't belong. . .

strngplyr · Aug 1, 2011

ctpatsfan77 said:
One of these things is not like the others, one of these things doesn't belong. . .

Yeah, Law Firm is not a pass catcher. He's been used a few times but most likely as the final option.

Snake Eyes · Aug 1, 2011

Deus Irae said:
and doesn't think Tate's going to make it in New England.

STOP IT, STOP IT

Metaphors · Aug 1, 2011

Deus Irae said:
Troy Brown is on WEEI today. He was just talking about the bottom 3. He loves Edelman's talent but doesn't expect him to do big things this year because of all the other options, says he hasn't seen enough of Price, and doesn't think Tate's going to make it in New England.

I look forward to people here pummeling Troy Brown as a contrarian who should just get in line with the rest of the "In BB we trust" folks.

Tate at 23 yo = 24/432/3

Troy's first 4 years in the league:

26 yo = 21/222/0
25 yo = 14/159/0
24 yo = 0/0/0
23 yo = 2/22/0

In a 14 year career, Troy only had 4 years with over 500 yds receiving, 3 years with 50 catches and only 2 years with 5 TDs. He really didn't break out until he was 29 yo. If anyone on the planet should be preaching patience in developing a WR, it should be Troy.

Mogamedogz · Aug 1, 2011

Troy is right about tate. Dude sucks. He will never do anything special in this league.

"NOW GO'ON AND TELL DAT, HOME-BOY!"

strngplyr · Aug 1, 2011

Mogamedogz said:
Troy is right about tate. Dude sucks. He will never do anything special in this league.

"NOW GO'ON AND TELL DAT, HOME-BOY!"

Based on what? While I agree he doesn't have a place on this team in my eyes and he's not a first ballot hall of famer yet, he's only just finished what is essentially his rookie season. We have too much depth for him to surpass and he isn't a precise route runner (yet?) like our current offense is based off of.

None of this means that he can't become another teams #1 or #2. He has the talent, he just isn't suited for our style of offense the way I see it. It also probably wouldn't hurt him going to a team where he can get on the field without having to sit behind players like Moss, Welker, Branch, and Ochocinco when your team is leaning towards 2WR sets more often than not because you just drafted 2 incredibly talented young TE's.

Too many receivers?

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