Randy Moss.....

spacecrime · Jul 14, 2011

Armchair Quarterback said:
The Patriots have moved on from Randy Moss, Patriot fans should learn to do the same. He gives full effort only when it suits him, not the team. His being in "freakish shape" won't help him block, run his routes when he isn't the first option or stop him from being a sideshow when he is unhappy about his contract or doesn't think enough balls are being thrown to him.

I agree with you and will go one step further.

Is he really in freakish shape? So far, we have his agent telling us what great shape he is in. Is that reall a trusted source

BillBelichickFan79 · Jul 14, 2011

Not a chance.

I joined Felger's anti-Moss crusade during the 09 season and never looked back. Felger was 100% right about this guy. Glad to see more people are coming around to the idea that the Pats were better off without him. Addition by subtraction.

His ego/Randy Ratio effect on offense combined with his declining speed/skill and inability to transform into a guy that will go over the middle consistently makes him extremely unattractive. He's always been a one dimensional player and can't run by every DB in the league anymore on a fly route.

Regardless of talent, Brady was so much more efficient and effective without Moss. The team was better without Moss. The offense was much less predictable, much more diversified, much harder to scheme for, much more efficient (especially late in games).

If we are going after a cheap veteran with a cheap on their shoulder for an incentive-laden deal, I'd rather take a shot at Plax. The guy didn't like to practice and had some issues, but he was a gamer on Sundays. He always showed up, gave 100%, had a knack for the clutch/big play. Plus his game was never built on deep speed like Moss.

BradyFTW! · Jul 14, 2011

Moss has always had an impressive offseason workout regimen, and has consistently come into camp in excellent shape. I don't see how this would be any huge departure from the norm, seems like it's just his agent trying to drum up interest.

TealSox · Jul 14, 2011

MoLewisrocks said:
Give it up already. Randy's issues here or elsewhere had nothing to do with being in freakish shape in the off season.

Agreed.

I don't recall his physical condition being to blame for last seasons failures. Motivation, maybe... and a talented, motivated player is something that Belichick has built his career out of.

See Rodney Harrison. Junior Seau. Mike Vrbal. Ted Washington. Corey Dillon. Wes Welker. Randy Moss 1.0. ETC

Mike the Brit · Jul 14, 2011

In BB I trust.

PatsWickedPissah · Jul 14, 2011

I appreciated Moss when he was here...excepting his behaviour starting after game one last season. The word was that in 2010 camp Moss was in career best shape. I went to camp and he looked in uber shape to me. Did well in the drills and was enthusiastic.

BUT...

And this is the issue with Moss. He let his demons ride him. Feeling dissed without a contract extension he became more and more of a headache. I believe that BB and the staff had begun to build the offense NOT around Randy realizing the HOF Brady was spending too mush attention in one direction, a tendency that made the Pats easy to game plan against by the better DCs in the league and resulted in too many INTs. As the season wore on both BB and Brady tired of the incessant major effort it took to keep Randy's head in gear. Took too much time and effort away from other necessities. Once BB knew that Brady would not melt down were Randy to go he went ahead and made the trade deal, a better one than he could have expected.

NFW that BB and Brady are even going to try a re-do here. Were Randy a stable personality and in control of his own psyche, they'd sign him up for 2 years but they know that when the going gets tough and max coaching and QB attention is required for the munitia of game prep, Randy's demons will likely arise and consume time and energy needed elsewhere.

Armchair Quarterback · Jul 14, 2011

WhiZa said:
We did bring back Branch after his "bad attitude" of wanting more money and finally trading him. I guess anything is possible.

TheGodInAGreyHoodie said:
Patriots also moved on from Branch. And then he came back.

Branch's play or effort on the field was never questioned. Moss was moved because his diva ego was not worth the hassle after he was was already phased out of the offense. The Branch situation was purely contractual.

TheGodInAGreyHoodie · Jul 14, 2011

Armchair Quarterback said:
Branch's play or effort on the field was never questioned. Moss was moved because his diva ego was not worth the hassle after he was was already phased out of the offense. The Branch situation was purely contractual.

Patriots move on from Moss for the same reason the Raiders did. If Moss can do half as well the last time he had something to prove it will be a heck of a season.

Randy Moss only gave a crap about his performance two seasons in his entire career--1998 after being insulted by the Cowboys and 2007.

sbpatfan · Jul 14, 2011

How about... **** no.

MoLewisrocks · Jul 14, 2011

PatsWickedPissah said:
I appreciated Moss when he was here...excepting his behaviour starting after game one last season. The word was that in 2010 camp Moss was in career best shape. I went to camp and he looked in uber shape to me. Did well in the drills and was enthusiastic.

BUT...

And this is the issue with Moss. He let his demons ride him. Feeling dissed without a contract extension he became more and more of a headache. I believe that BB and the staff had begun to build the offense NOT around Randy realizing the HOF Brady was spending too mush attention in one direction, a tendency that made the Pats easy to game plan against by the better DCs in the league and resulted in too many INTs. As the season wore on both BB and Brady tired of the incessant major effort it took to keep Randy's head in gear. Took too much time and effort away from other necessities. Once BB knew that Brady would not melt down were Randy to go he went ahead and made the trade deal, a better one than he could have expected.

NFW that BB and Brady are even going to try a re-do here. Were Randy a stable personality and in control of his own psyche, they'd sign him up for 2 years but they know that when the going gets tough and max coaching and QB attention is required for the munitia of game prep, Randy's demons will likely arise and consume time and energy needed elsewhere.

Well put, although for me there were subtle signs of the potential to disconnect as far back as down the stretch in 2007 (after the incident in Florida) and in 2008 (which was somewhat understandable given the loss of Brady) and deeper signs down the stretch in 2009. When Brady and Welker routinely took to the postgame poduim and basically focused on the need for players to push through whatever your issues might be and rise up mantra...it was clear to me they were primarily attempting to send a thinly veiled message to Randy. And it was impossible to send it directly since that had already necessitated a private apology call after one particularly heated practice...

Bill gravitates towards self motivated players for a reason. They drain fewer organizational resources and make it easier for coaches to focus on limited areas of concern.

Modest · Jul 14, 2011

A motivated Moss is a force to be reckoned with- I don't care how damn old he is.

Armchair Quarterback · Jul 14, 2011

TheGodInAGreyHoodie said:
Patriots move on from Moss for the same reason the Raiders did. If Moss can do half as well the last time he had something to prove it will be a heck of a season.

Randy Moss only gave a crap about his performance two seasons in his entire career--1998 after being insulted by the Cowboys and 2007.

And that's the type of player you want on the team?

MoLewisrocks · Jul 14, 2011

TheGodInAGreyHoodie said:
Patriots move on from Moss for the same reason the Raiders did. If Moss can do half as well the last time he had something to prove it will be a heck of a season.

Randy Moss only gave a crap about his performance two seasons in his entire career--1998 after being insulted by the Cowboys and 2007.

And you state that like it's a good thing... And half as well is less than what we got for most of his time here. Sorry, but it wasn't nearly worth the aggrevation.

Moss had something to prove before and after he got traded last season and it didn't result in a heck of a season for anyone... His issue heading into 2010 was he didn't think he had anything to prove, which is why he believed he was due a contract extension befitting his self image before the season. What on earth makes you people think he's sufficiently motivated a year later to prove anything else now for essentially a prove it deal... let alone that he is still capable of proving he's even worth the effort? Bill let go of 2007 sometime in 2009. The rest of you would be well served to give it up almost two years later... Like Randy himself, 2007 was a freak occurrance. At this point 2009 might even be one, and that's one that is simply not worth the aggrevation of repeating.

Professor Frink · Jul 14, 2011

I think a good fit for Moss would be going to New Orleans. They will be looking for WRs in free agency, and he would be a perfect fit for thier vertical passing offense. I could see him and Drew Brees getting along, and I think Payton is the kind of coach that could get a lot out of him. Moss could give that offense some seriously scary potential.

Brady_to_Moss · Jul 14, 2011

give him a 1 year deal with lots of incentives

capetide · Jul 14, 2011

Palm Beach Pats Fan said:
these are the conditions I think BB might set:

1) low cost or incentive-laden 1 or 2 year deal
2) show he is humbled- apologize to his teammates for causing a distraction last year
3) prove he truly is in top shape
4) promise not to pout if his role is diminished

If all that is true, I don't have a problem with it, if BB doesn't.

Hell, if he doesn't, none of us should take issue with it.

Do you really want to revisit Brady trying to force balls downfield to Moss to keep him involved and happy and prevent him from pouting on the sidelines?Was great while it lasted but I don't think the percentages of success are all that great when you go back and remarry your ex-wife either.

NSPF · Jul 14, 2011

For reference:
‪Randy Moss 2010 Season - All 5 TD's‬&rlm; - YouTube

As a fan, I want to see the Pats take a chance on him on a one-strike-you're-out type of deal, but if I was BB I wouldn't even bother. Moss still has the physical ability. I don't think that there's any evidence against this, aside from his performance last year, where there were clearly other things going on mentally that were causing problems.

A lot of people believe that Moss was bringing the offense down while he was here last year, primarily because of the Jet's game. The offense hardly struggled in the other two games Moss started though, scoring 38 points in both. Sure enough, after he left, the offense undeniably saw a temporary dip in production, culminating in a 14 point performance at Cleveland. That's the main reason that the fan in me wants to see him back; I don't agree that he was hurting the offense, and I think he could still be effective. However, the second half of the season was one of the most unbelievable offensive showings ever, and this is the reason that we DO NOT need Randy Moss, and we do not really need to sign any other receivers either!

Singing Moss would not significantly improve offense performance, and that's what we need to know. He might make a few spectacular plays, but those would be offset by the plays where Brady tries to force the ball to him, or where he is otherwise not useful. The offense might change, but it wouldn't appreciably improve.

That being said, I don't see the harm of bringing him to training camp if it's cheap (which it better be). But I'd prefer Sidney Rice.

s3antana5757 · Jul 14, 2011

NSPF said:
For reference:
‪Randy Moss 2010 Season - All 5 TD's‬&rlm; - YouTube

As a fan, I want to see the Pats take a chance on him on a one-strike-you're-out type of deal, but if I was BB I wouldn't even bother. Moss still has the physical ability. I don't think that there's any evidence against this, aside from his performance last year, where there were clearly other things going on mentally that were causing problems.

A lot of people believe that Moss was bringing the offense down while he was here last year, primarily because of the Jet's game. The offense hardly struggled in the other two games Moss started though, scoring 38 points in both. Sure enough, after he left, the offense undeniably saw a temporary dip in production, culminating in a 14 point performance at Cleveland. That's the main reason that the fan in me wants to see him back; I don't agree that he was hurting the offense, and I think he could still be effective. However, the second half of the season was one of the most unbelievable offensive showings ever, and this is the reason that we DO NOT need Randy Moss, and we do not really need to sign any other receivers either!

Singing Moss would not significantly improve offense performance, and that's what we need to know. He might make a few spectacular plays, but those would be offset by the plays where Brady tries to force the ball to him, or where he is otherwise not useful. The offense might change, but it wouldn't appreciably improve.

That being said, I don't see the harm of bringing him to training camp if it's cheap (which it better be). But I'd prefer Sidney Rice.

I just watched the 2007 video of Randy, and two things stand out. One, his speed. He is so much faster than any DBs who he played against. Two, and maybe more importantly, was how aggressive he was after the football. No quit. No jogging. There were a few times in the video where the announcer would say something like "Randy just ran a deep route." Or "You knew they were gonna go right back there after Brady and Moss didn't hook up on the last play." If Randy didn't get the ball, he wasn't pouting and would run harder on the next play.

TealSox · Jul 14, 2011

Coming back to New England isn't going to give Randy Moss the satisfaction he wants. IF he came back here, he'd be fighting for receptions from four guys: Branch, Welker, A. Hernandez and Gronkowski. Sure, Moss would have a role carved out for him and the team would benefit from having a player LIKE him on the (i.e. a deep threat, with great hands), but is that what Moss WANTS? To be down on the list of offensive threats or with a team where he can be the first or second option?

JoeSixPat · Jul 14, 2011

TheGodInAGreyHoodie said:
Randy Moss in “freakish shape” in bid to keep career going | ProFootballTalk

Randy Moss + chip on shoulder = good thing.

I reiterate my prediction: CBPY 2011: Randy Moss, WR, NEP.

I'm convinced.

If you can't believe a player's agent to be honest about the condition and skills of a player, who CAN you believe?

Seriously - Moss was even MORE motivated to play well to earn an extension last season, before the lockout.

The question when a player like Moss does not perform is usually a question of whether they "would not" play well or whether they "could not" play well.

Seeing as Moss had everything to gain and everything to lose, I think we can safely rule out the "would not" and can say with certainty that he was trying his best. The whole reason he wanted to be traded was to show he could play at a very high level.

So we know that in 2010 Moss "could not" play at a high level. Why that was - and whether anything's changed in 2011 - is really the big question.

Frankly I don't expect Belichick or Brady to have any interest in bringing him or his ego back - I'd expect to see Donte Stallworth get a tryout to see what he's got left in the tank before they bring Moss back (and at age 30, if Stallworth still has decent speed, he might be a more intriguing option as a deep threat than a 34 year old washed up ego driven Moss... though seeing as Stallworth hasn't had a prison or injury free season since leaving the Pats I don't think anyone has any idea what Stallworth could do at this point)

Randy Moss.....

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

Goodell sucks

TealSox

Guest

Minuteman Target

PatsFans.com Supporter

In the Starting Line-Up

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

Banned

PatsFans.com Supporter

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

In the Starting Line-Up

PatsFans.com Supporter

On the Roster

28-3....

Practice Squad Player

Third String But Playing on Special Teams

On the Game Day Roster

TealSox

Guest

Pro Bowl Player

Similar threads